Lockdowns work.

My states is still covid free.

Our borders come down on Monday (no quarantine for "safe" areas.). We are opening to a bubble to what they consider Safe states/ area's and New Zealand. (which are all % wise very safe but as we all know it just took 1)

I'm not a fan but that whats happening.

Numbers keep going up here in western Canada. Complacency has set in for many re PPE and kids are becoming significant spreaders since school resumed.

Low antibody numbers in China provide more proof that Herd Immunity is not possible without an effective vaccine.

H G Griffin said:

Numbers keep going up here in western Canada. Complacency has set in for many re PPE and kids are becoming significant spreaders since school resumed.

Low antibody numbers in China provide more proof that Herd Immunity is not possible without an effective vaccine.

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Are the schools the cause of the higher spread though? I have only seen anecdotal reports that say no here in my area, but I have no clue. Our numbers are actually staying quite low at the moment if you can believe the numbers, sandwiched in the middle of the red zones !

Victoria (Capital city is Melbourne) had a great result last 24 hrs.

This is the stark difference in locking down or not.

How long should a lockdown last? They say that the millennial generation was pretty screwed long term financially due to the Great Recession in 2008-09. The end of that generation just finished school (those that went that route) and the beginning of the next. While it's a terrible discussion to weigh lives vs financial stability of the next set of humans, at what point is that a discussion? If a lockdown is more important, does that generation just get screwed or should the government figure out a way to stabilize them? Do we trust the government to figure out a way to do that? Just curious what you all think

Dryxi said:

How long should a lockdown last? They say that the millennial generation was pretty screwed long term financially due to the Great Recession in 2008-09. The end of that generation just finished school (those that went that route) and the beginning of the next. While it's a terrible discussion to weigh lives vs financial stability of the next set of humans, at what point is that a discussion? If a lockdown is more important, does that generation just get screwed or should the government figure out a way to stabilize them? Do we trust the government to figure out a way to do that? Just curious what you all think

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"They say that the millennial generation was pretty screwed long term financially due to the Great Recession in 2008-09."
Who say? Can you source that, please?

I think that the USA specifically has let too many important infrastructure and educational and medical institutions suffer due to unrestrained greed and partisan politics for way too long to recover. I think the pandemic has simply accelerated the inevitable decline of a culture that has spent far too much effort yelling about rights while completely ignoring responsibilities. I think that until US citizens learn to value and respect other human beings, regardless of superficial differences, you are going to drown in your own selfishness. I think that until the two party system is replaced, no other attempts at repair will succeed.
That's what I think.

Dryxi said:

How long should a lockdown last? They say that the millennial generation was pretty screwed long term financially due to the Great Recession in 2008-09. The end of that generation just finished school (those that went that route) and the beginning of the next. While it's a terrible discussion to weigh lives vs financial stability of the next set of humans, at what point is that a discussion? If a lockdown is more important, does that generation just get screwed or should the government figure out a way to stabilize them? Do we trust the government to figure out a way to do that? Just curious what you all think

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I think to start this conversation we should first define 'lockdown'.

About your school point, I would argue that those people have not lost their degrees, so while they may have been starting out in a tough time economically (and again during the next Republican control of DC caused recession/depression hit hard), they still have decades to build up their wealth.

I would trust a functional executive branch to help push to study what options the government could do to help fix/support the areas that needs it most. Masks sent our early would have been a good move.

hanimmal said:

I think to start this conversation we should first define 'lockdown'.

About your school point, I would argue that those people have not lost their degrees, so while they may have been starting out in a tough time economically (and again during the next Republican control of DC caused recession/depression hit hard), they still have decades to build up their wealth.

I would trust a functional executive branch to help push to study what options the government could do to help fix/support the areas that needs it most. Masks sent our early would have been a good move.

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I am talking about lockdown in the sense of majority of businesses being closed, stay at home orders, etc.

Investopedia article on the financial repercussions of younger generations

our government is a little less than functional imho

Dryxi said:

I am talking about lockdown in the sense of majority of businesses being closed, stay at home orders, etc.

Investopedia article on the financial repercussions of younger generations

our government is a little less than functional imho

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I think a big issue with the great recession was all those people who were close to retiring having to stick it out in the workforce to rebuild all that wealth they lost (pensions/stocks/property values) in 08-09.

The incoming workforce that would have in normal times replaced those older workers had to wait around.

As for the lockdown, I am not sure we used it to do the restructuring that we should have to move forward in a much safer manner as a society. I am not as worried about the folks with degrees as I am about all the people working in service industries like waiting tables/cooks and movie theaters (which are still not safe).

It is tough, a lot of data will need to be crunched to figure out who and how to help these people most impacted by this pandemic.

Dryxi said:

How long should a lockdown last? They say that the millennial generation was pretty screwed long term financially due to the Great Recession in 2008-09. The end of that generation just finished school (those that went that route) and the beginning of the next. While it's a terrible discussion to weigh lives vs financial stability of the next set of humans, at what point is that a discussion? If a lockdown is more important, does that generation just get screwed or should the government figure out a way to stabilize them? Do we trust the government to figure out a way to do that? Just curious what you all think

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That depends on how many cases. The faster you lock down the shorter the lock down period. We only had to have a 3 week lock down in my state.

Not all countries were as badly effected with the GFC (The great depression was a long time ago 1929-33). Eg: Australia had growth through the GFC.

The longer a pandemic lasts the more the economy is effected. Most studies using the US price of a life are in favor of lock downs as its less costly. This has played out in the Australian states economy. My state has been pretty much covid free for the majority of this pandemic and has been the number 1 economy over the last two quarters. Its normally bottom two.

Locking down or not the economy will suffer. The faster we are out the other side the less lasting the recession will be. Interestingly enough their are reports Australia may be briefly out of its recession next quarter as consumer spending has been higher than anticipated. No one expects this to last but that was a bit of a shock. The early stimulus payments to business to keep staff employed and the doubling of unemployment payments during the pandemic paid dividends there. Also proved to many doubters that our unemployment payment to our unemployed is to low and rising it IS better for the economy.

Dryxi said:

I am talking about lockdown in the sense of majority of businesses being closed, stay at home orders, etc.

Investopedia article on the financial repercussions of younger generations

our government is a little less than functional imho

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In America it will have to work something like this, considering your case load. A national lockdown for a month minimum to knock back the spread while mass testing and contact tracing are implemented. If you send sick people home with their families and don't case isolate the curve will plateau as the disease works it's way through families and the lockdown extended. One you get the rate down to the recommended levels you have a national mask mandate and institute NPI's (Non Pharmaceutical Interventions) as required like keeping restaurants and bars closed and gatherings limited.

If you can keep the numbers low enough you can hopefully treat those likely to become severely sick in a few months with antibody therapy like Trump got. This may act as a stop gap measure, confer temporary immunity and dramatically lower mortality rates. Even if we get a working vaccine next year we will still need to treat the sick and many lives can be saved. With the current exponential growth rate of infections there is no hope other than a lock down, if you don't lock down now you will probably lose another 300,000 people over the winter. That is with vastly improved supportive care and therapeutics like NAC that has already dropped mortality rates greatly.

Lock down or die in large numbers and have the economy crash anyway, doing the right thing has never been so simple. Simple if you can afford to eat and the republicans made sure that millions of Americans won't eat and will be thrown into the streets by walking out of Washington when they got their judge. Trump and the republicans who support him are criminals and mass murders of their own citizens.

Dryxi said:

I am talking about lockdown in the sense of majority of businesses being closed, stay at home orders, etc.

Investopedia article on the financial repercussions of younger generations

our government is a little less than functional imho

Click to expand...

Well, yes, pandemics from novel viruses do come with a price tag on businesses, economies and people. When this epidemic rose up, it arrived with a cost and our best actions could have kept it at that minimum. Trump and Republicans made it cost a whole lot more.

end of story.

In the global fight against COVID-19, an ever-widening gap has emerged between our region and the rest of the world. While East Asia and the Pacific have been relatively successful in containing the disease, the infection and fatality numbers for Europe and the United States in particular are shocking.
More than 210,000 people have lost their lives to COVID-19 across 31 European countries, including Britain, and a further 6.2 million people have been infected.
The US is experiencing a third surge, reporting more than 500,000 new cases in the past week, and states and cities have resorted to stricter new measures to contain the virus that is raging across the country, especially through the American Midwest heartland. With a population of 12.6 million, the state of Illinois has reported more than 30,000 new cases in the past week – more than Australia has recorded since January.
For Australia, the lesson of what’s happening in Europe - and of Victoria’s second wave - is that we are just one bad decision, one slice of bad luck, away from a new COVID-19 bushfire.
We must not be complacent or self-congratulatory. Leadership, science and unity got us and our Asia-Pacific neighbours to this place. And it’s these things that stand between a "zero COVID" life and the devastation of a new wave.

trump rallies are actively spreading the Virus, fuckin eh.

• A "stay at home" order has been issued for all of England until at least December 2
• Boris Johnson said the virus was "spreading even faster than the reasonable worst-case scenario"
• He said if things did not change, the country could see thousands of deaths a day

How good is this. It wont last of cause but thats unfknreal.

Walking into this blind. Keep seeing the title. Uh, hello? We are not talking lockdowns. You, I and we are being informed to make rational choice to minimize our movement to protect ourselves and others against a known mortal pathogen. If of any common sense ones self preservation should be willing to be pro active. You are not being held at gun point in your homes. And if you incur a repercussion for your failure to respect all lives?? You earned it. Stop saying "LOCKDOWNS". Corporate spin. Peace and health to all. Out.

MICHI-CAN said:

Walking into this blind. Keep seeing the title. Uh, hello? We are not talking lockdowns. You, I and we are being informed to make rational choice to minimize our movement to protect ourselves and others against a known mortal pathogen. If of any common sense ones self preservation should be willing to be pro active. You are not being held at gun point in your homes. And if you incur a repercussion for your failure to respect all lives?? You earned it. Stop saying "LOCKDOWNS". Corporate spin. Peace and health to all. Out.

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Lockdowns.

MICHI-CAN said:

Walking into this blind. Keep seeing the title. Uh, hello? We are not talking lockdowns. You, I and we are being informed to make rational choice to minimize our movement to protect ourselves and others against a known mortal pathogen. If of any common sense ones self preservation should be willing to be pro active. You are not being held at gun point in your homes. And if you incur a repercussion for your failure to respect all lives?? You earned it. Stop saying "LOCKDOWNS". Corporate spin. Peace and health to all. Out.

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I get what your saying but when every business is instructed (not asked- told) to close except for essential services and people are told to stay at home except for an hr to exercise and they cannot travel for any reason more than a certain distance from their home or they can be fined or worse then surely that warrants a much stronger term of wording?