Lollipopping ( Any Scientific Evidence? )

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Dave, where do you live? Be glad to share my secrets. I'm a variety freak. Wish I could show off my pix of us juicing blood oranges, meyer lemons and stuff from the greenhouse. We put up gallons of juice from single greenhouse trees. Was about 70 blood oranges. My signature margarita is made with homegrown Moro blood orange juice, key limes, tequila and triple sec. Got a young key lime that is producing really big fruit for that variety. Let them turn yellow for maximum flavor. When they come off with a very light tug, it's perfection!

BloodOrangeDect2013#2.jpg

Yep, those blackberries are huge. Kiowa. http://www.womacknursery.com/berries.html

Off of only 9 crowns of asparagus I pull, for months, one handful twice a day. After a while wife sees me coming with that stuff and yells "put it back!!!!. :) Local executive chef wants it next year.
 

Pass it Around

Well-Known Member
Dave, where do you live? Be glad to share my secrets. I'm a variety freak. Wish I could show off my pix of us juicing blood oranges, meyer lemons and stuff from the greenhouse. We put up gallons of juice from single greenhouse trees. Was about 70 blood oranges. My signature margarita is made with homegrown Moro blood orange juice, key limes, tequila and triple sec. Got a young key lime that is producing really big fruit for that variety. Let them turn yellow for maximum flavor. When they come off with a very light tug, it's perfection!

View attachment 3265475

Yep, those blackberries are huge. Kiowa. http://www.womacknursery.com/berries.html

Off of only 9 crowns of asparagus I pull, for months, one handful twice a day. After a while wife sees me coming with that stuff and yells "put it back!!!!. :) Local executive chef wants it next year.
I am living in the mountains :P lake tahoe california
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
hot diggidy damn blackberries are bigger than my balls!
Same color too. ;)

We eat well. I get neighbor's farm eggs, neighbor gets my maters and stuff. Have a lady's banded galloway cows on part of my land (hope to get some meat off those grass fed naturals). Get free range chickens by swapping grapes with her, etc. Quite a gal. Asked how she butchers. Said for the best meat you don't cut off the head to tense up and set the muscles. Hangs them upside down with their necks hanging out a cone, slits their throats with an ultra sharp knife. Humane, they go unconcious and the meat is super tender. 5 lb. hens! Yeah, it's a good life. We love to eat and drink. Tonight is artery clogging night - a fry in of fish, okra, sweet potato fries, onion rings. Washed down with a Sauvignon blanc, yah sah! Any wine left over goes into my white wine vinegar batch. ;)
 

Breko

Well-Known Member
I just went to my boys house and he has the bottom 2 feet of all his plants empty... not a leaf not a bud... only sticks. I just don't get why someone would do it... he said air flow but really put another fuckin fan in there you know what I mean?

Anyways I just wanna know if there is any scientific evidence that this does anything good for the plant? He also said something about only getting big buds but he also strips the 2 feet in ONE day...

to me thats like taking a fuckin chainsaw to your ladies and asking them to perform great after.
Lollipopping is where it's AT. SCROG anyways... :)
 

reasonevangelist

Well-Known Member
May I suggest you start by finding all posts in the many defoi threads I've posted to. I really get tired of repeating myself with every new crop of noobs.
Since you already know where you've published all this information, you could just, you know, throw a link... not exactly repeating yourself, IMO.

I still think that the leaves that get direct light are photosynthesizing more efficiently (and thus their leaves are "worth more"), which is a significant contributor to fruit/flower development, and that without enough light, whether direct or filtered through a canopy, fruit/flower will not develop as well... and that eliminating those inferior/insufficient growths, prevents "wasted" energy, spent to grow leaves and branches and retarded fruits/flowers. You never see giant colas in the shade. The biggest stuff is at the top, because... ? Surely the best light being at the top, not under the canopy, is a significant factor, if not the primary one. From what i've seen, the stuff that gets the most light will develop the best/biggest.

Although... there is a case to be made for "trim," and using tiny underdeveloped nugs for things like hash and cooking, so it doesn't HAVE to be labeled "waste," but if you're aiming for best colas and not "larf," then i think it's right to eliminate anything that won't become what you want it to become, due to its position among the structure. Plus, there's the whole issue of humidity and crowding, but i digress. There are many valid reasons to prune, and it's not always a bad thing, if used appropriately.

Not sure how that can be justifiably called "stupidity" by any credible person.
 

DCobeen

Well-Known Member
I do agree when i a plant cant use the leaves it eats there resources and the leaf will die. i loose leaves all the time. I know they are supposed to stay gree but i have not figured that out yet. Well i did in AIS but not this run without AIS.
 

skunkd0c

Well-Known Member
1. Glad my plants can't read,

2. Popcorn buds is NOT about light.
lower buds will get bigger with bottom lighting, addling light improves density of the nugs
although the major factor with lower cola development is genetics
unless the plant makes large colas lower down anyway adding lots of extra light will not suddenly make them produce colas
 

reasonevangelist

Well-Known Member
lower buds will get bigger with bottom lighting, addling light improves density of the nugs
although the major factor with lower cola development is genetics
unless the plant makes large colas lower down anyway adding lots of extra light will not suddenly make them produce colas
okay... what about training and topping (auxin manipulation)?

If i keep pinching the top every time it heals, won't that cause "the rest of the plant" to receive more "energy?" Whereas, if we're growing an apically dominant strain, and just leave it to do its thing, it will naturally focus "more" of its growth "energy" (hormones, nutrients, water, etc.) toward the main top? It would seem as though a reason for this behavior, is that the plant wants to get closer to the light... (cannabis is "sun adapted" rather than "shade adapted") because the more light it can get, the better it can develop. If it can't reach enough light, it will stretch like crazy and develop weak fruit. Why would the lower shaded branches NOT be subject to such results, when the rest of the plant is? Those unlighted lower branches (which cannot "grow toward light" if there's not enough room) will either stretch and find light (and subsequently fully develop), or do nothing (because not enough light) and not develop robustly. From what i see in my own plants, the stuff that touches light develops relatively quickly, while the stuff "stuck" under the canopy seems to stall. It doesn't cease growth completely (because it's still "sucking" resources), it just doesn't keep up with the stuff in direct light. It's slower and smaller, and i expect it will never "catch up," unless i manipulate the canopy to allow more direct light to reach those shaded lower parts. How is that not about light? All parts which receive "as much light as the rest of the plant," seem to grow "as much as the rest of the plant." Those too far below canopy, which do not see as much light, do not grow as well as the rest of the plant. More light = more grow. Less light = less grow. Anyone getting "popcorn" on their direct light tops, but "colas" on their shaded bottoms? I doubt it. I've never seen a bottom-heavy plant that wasn't bottom-lit. In fact, i can't recall EVER seeing a bottom-heavy plant (or anyone "bottom lighting" for that matter). Most people's lights are above their plants, and their plants are best developed where they touch the most light. In my case, the leaves which get the most light (the ones on the plant directly in the center) are Twice as big as everything else up top (and wide and thick and dark, nearly opaque; they block quite a bit of light), and everything "below" is comparatively small; probably half as big as the stuff on the edges, which still isn't as big as my hand. I don't understand how this is even a debate. Even as a "noob," i can see what's happening. The stuff touching the light grows the best, and whatever isn't getting enough light, falls further and further behind as time progresses. If you KNOW that a branch will not be able to reach light and fully develop... why not remove it? Why not nip it before the plant ever spends the energy to grow that branch or leaf? Why not distribute those resources stored in those "storage bank leaves," to the leaves in the light, which will be kept for the duration? Why do we need to grow leaves just so the plant can waste energy trying to produce inferior fruit, and then cannibalize itself? Maybe if we just build our soil correctly, we can skip the whole "storing resources to be cannibalized" part, thus saving energy, and being more efficient?

Cannabis is "sun adapted." It grows toward light, asymmetrically if needed, and the parts which touch light, develop the best. It's possible for the lowest branch to assume apical dominance, if it's the part of the plant receiving the best light.

Either way... "don't over-prune" is probably great advice... but insisting that "lollipopping is bad," is probably not. Lollipopping Too Much, is bad... you probably don't need to hack off the bottom two thirds of your plant... but not everyone has an 8x8 room to dedicate to one plant, and lamps that penetrate 2 ft of soil from 10 ft away. Prune what won't produce; strategically position the rest. Unless of course that's just too much hassle, in which case you should probably cut off anything that isn't worth Your time, and not worry about whether people on forums get upset about your pruning techniques.
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Cannabis is "sun adapted." It grows toward light, asymmetrically if needed, and the parts which touch light, develop the best.
No they don't. It's obvious you have never grown outdoors.

It's possible for the lowest branch to assume apical dominance, if it's the part of the plant receiving the best light.
No it's not, as I articulated in quite a few of the (never ending) defoliation threads. Again, that statement reflects the mindset of most of the members at RIU - you don't understand plant processes, hormonal influences and apical dominance. (And that goes for you too skunkdOc).

Get away from this retarded site and get into one that presents solid botanical knowledge.

UB
 
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reasonevangelist

Well-Known Member
No they don't. It's obvious you have never grown outdoors.
So are you saying cannabis is not a sun-adapted species, and that it does not grow toward light?

It most certainly IS a sun-adapted species (look it up), and DOES grow toward light; i have seen it; it is well-documented. I can move my lamp to different positions, and my plants will reposition themselves accordingly, sometimes within a very short time (like a couple hours).

If you block the top 90% of the plant from light, while focusing quality light on the lowest leaf, that leaf/branch will become dominant. If you put a lamp only on one side of the plant, it will grow asymmetrically, toward that lamp, instead of straight up. It will still go "up," but it will position itself according to the primary light source. If it doesn't have a sufficient light source, it will either not do much at all and die (damping off), or it will stretch like crazy and never properly develop. I have seen what happens underneath a canopy. I'm pretty sure lollipopping is more of an indoor technique; outside you have THE SUN, which can usually reach bottom leaves, because a 6 ft difference is irrelevant in relation to the sun, whereas a 1ft difference is significant in relation to a lamp in a room.

Anyway... i don't think either of us can gain anything useful from continuing this exchange, so i'll just stop there.
 

skunkd0c

Well-Known Member
okay... what about training and topping (auxin manipulation)?

If i keep pinching the top every time it heals, won't that cause "the rest of the plant" to receive more "energy?" Whereas, if we're growing an apically dominant strain, and just leave it to do its thing, it will naturally focus "more" of its growth "energy" (hormones, nutrients, water, etc.) toward the main top? It would seem as though a reason for this behavior, is that the plant wants to get closer to the light... (cannabis is "sun adapted" rather than "shade adapted") because the more light it can get, the better it can develop. If it can't reach enough light, it will stretch like crazy and develop weak fruit. Why would the lower shaded branches NOT be subject to such results, when the rest of the plant is? Those unlighted lower branches (which cannot "grow toward light" if there's not enough room) will either stretch and find light (and subsequently fully develop), or do nothing (because not enough light) and not develop robustly. From what i see in my own plants, the stuff that touches light develops relatively quickly, while the stuff "stuck" under the canopy seems to stall. It doesn't cease growth completely (because it's still "sucking" resources), it just doesn't keep up with the stuff in direct light. It's slower and smaller, and i expect it will never "catch up," unless i manipulate the canopy to allow more direct light to reach those shaded lower parts. How is that not about light? All parts which receive "as much light as the rest of the plant," seem to grow "as much as the rest of the plant." Those too far below canopy, which do not see as much light, do not grow as well as the rest of the plant. More light = more grow. Less light = less grow. Anyone getting "popcorn" on their direct light tops, but "colas" on their shaded bottoms? I doubt it. I've never seen a bottom-heavy plant that wasn't bottom-lit. In fact, i can't recall EVER seeing a bottom-heavy plant (or anyone "bottom lighting" for that matter). Most people's lights are above their plants, and their plants are best developed where they touch the most light. In my case, the leaves which get the most light (the ones on the plant directly in the center) are Twice as big as everything else up top (and wide and thick and dark, nearly opaque; they block quite a bit of light), and everything "below" is comparatively small; probably half as big as the stuff on the edges, which still isn't as big as my hand. I don't understand how this is even a debate. Even as a "noob," i can see what's happening. The stuff touching the light grows the best, and whatever isn't getting enough light, falls further and further behind as time progresses. If you KNOW that a branch will not be able to reach light and fully develop... why not remove it? Why not nip it before the plant ever spends the energy to grow that branch or leaf? Why not distribute those resources stored in those "storage bank leaves," to the leaves in the light, which will be kept for the duration? Why do we need to grow leaves just so the plant can waste energy trying to produce inferior fruit, and then cannibalize itself? Maybe if we just build our soil correctly, we can skip the whole "storing resources to be cannibalized" part, thus saving energy, and being more efficient?

Cannabis is "sun adapted." It grows toward light, asymmetrically if needed, and the parts which touch light, develop the best. It's possible for the lowest branch to assume apical dominance, if it's the part of the plant receiving the best light.

Either way... "don't over-prune" is probably great advice... but insisting that "lollipopping is bad," is probably not. Lollipopping Too Much, is bad... you probably don't need to hack off the bottom two thirds of your plant... but not everyone has an 8x8 room to dedicate to one plant, and lamps that penetrate 2 ft of soil from 10 ft away. Prune what won't produce; strategically position the rest. Unless of course that's just too much hassle, in which case you should probably cut off anything that isn't worth Your time, and not worry about whether people on forums get upset about your pruning techniques.
what is this all about ^^ ?
are you thinking about writing a grow book lol
 

Ninjabowler

Well-Known Member
Wow, seems uncle ben still hasnt figured out that you get better, bigger, more fully developed buds when theres light getting to them. Youd think a guy with a head of knowledge like he has would be able to look at a cannabis plant and see how poorly the bottom buds turn out on some genetics and concede. If you grow big canopies indoor youll see light green underdeveloped scraglies where theres a lack of light. Same thing with pruning a tomato plant. Its common sense. Proper pruning produces better quality more uniform fruits. Fact. Weed isnt some wonder plant that is special.
 

Ninjabowler

Well-Known Member
Gawd, another defoliation thread?



Here we go again. When in the hell are you guys gonna learn something about photosynthesis, and what's this "energy" stuff? What energy are you talking about? Any leaf aka "sucker" on a tomato plant or cannabis contributes to the overall welfare of the plant doesn't matter where it's located. If it's not productive the plant will drop it on its own.

I grow tomatoes year long and have never pulled any leaves off. I mean, how stupid can you get?

UB
Hahahaaa, UB....the only man i know that would call all professional tomato producers "stupid".
 

butterbudface

Well-Known Member

  1. This is as a result of auxin accumulating on the side of the plant away from the light, causing extra growth in this region and so causing the plant to bend towards the light. Roots are not sensitive to light but grow downwards in response to the stimulus of gravity.
 

DCobeen

Well-Known Member
Okay they plant will lean towards the light at first then the fan leaves will begin to grow bigger wasting energy so it can get more light and use it. I will say this bigger buds is not always better buds. I have grown them big and small. I grew outdoors which was so much easier. I think UB is just trying to get you all to try and let a plant grow itself without removing leaves for flowering. I can say I was happy both ways. leaving them on and removing 30% of the lower ones. I am no an expert I just let them grow and test them. I am still learning what my C99 strain can do. I know it can be trained and grow into a bush then not stretch as much. or i can let it grow up and chop the top 10-18 inches off every 2 weeks which doesnt stop it from growing up huge. These plants have all by then selves used all the energy in the bottom 15% of the plants so far. It is eating more everyday. I think there can be great info and comparison if we all be more constructive and helpful. UB is straight to the point here and not so on the other site. I know there we dont have drama because we dont spread bad information. I am not sure lollipop is bad. even though it does go against the rules. But hey 95% of us is going against the rules to grow this plant so sometimes thinking outside the box is good.
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
So are you saying cannabis is not a sun-adapted species, and that it does not grow toward light?
Cannabis is actually a tuber. Best buds can be found underground. ;)

(sheesh, where do you guys come from.... hills of Vermont?)

Now, read this reallllllll slow --> I..... was...... responding...... to....... your....... statement............ here --> and the parts which touch light, develop the best.
 
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Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member

  1. This is as a result of auxin accumulating on the side of the plant away from the light, causing extra growth in this region and so causing the plant to bend towards the light. Roots are not sensitive to light but grow downwards in response to the stimulus of gravity.
Phototropism, gravitropism
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Wow, seems uncle ben still hasnt figured out that you get better, bigger, more fully developed buds when theres light getting to them. Youd think a guy with a head of knowledge like he has would be able to look at a cannabis plant and see how poorly the bottom buds turn out on some genetics and concede.
Has nothing to do with light, shit-fer-brains. See the other defoliation threads and stop making a fool of yourself. You too have never grown outdoors and don't know what you're talking about.
 
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