Lost In A Sea Of Nutrients? Advanced Nutrients, Canna etc.

Medi 1

Medi 1

Well-Known Member
green planet. pot specific and way way cheeper....and they use more n in bloom than phos, thats old news
 
MediMary

MediMary

Well-Known Member
To date my best results have been with floranova bloom and canna aqua. I like doing comparison grows with 2 nutrients at a time, homebrews vs. thread was awesome~now we need another one homebrew(hint hint). I like what al. b. fuct says about all these magic sauce potions. LOL
 
G37Kush

G37Kush

Active Member
Does anyone have any feedback on Heavy-16 Bud A&B line? Here's their nutrient make-up
Bud-A ($32.95/1L) 4.0-0-2.0
Total Nitrogen (N) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4.0%
0.2% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
3.8% Nitrate Nitrogen
Soluble Potash (K2O) . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2.0%
Calcium (Ca) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4.2%
Boron (B) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .0.016%
Copper (Cu) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .0.0010%
0.0005% Chelated Copper
Iron (Fe) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .0.10%
0.10% Chelated Iron
Manganese (Mn) . . . . . . . . . . . . . .0.0340%
0.0170% Chelated Manganese
Molybdenum (Mo) . . . . . . . . . . . . .0.0008%
Zinc (Zn) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .0.0090%
0.0042% Chelated Zinc.

Bud-B ($32.95/1L) 1.25-3.7-7.4
Total Nitrogen (N) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.25%
1.25% Nitrate Nitrogen
Available Phosphoric Acid (P2O5) . . . . 3.7%
Soluble Potash (K2O) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7.4%
Magnesium (Mg) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.60%
Sulfur (S) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2.40%
How does it's composition compare to DG and DM?
 
G37Kush

G37Kush

Active Member
I'm already leaning towards DG on the price alone. I just hope I still have a great grow and large yield with heavy-16. At least I know for future grows to go with DG and Floralicious plus for sure.
 
rosecitypapa

rosecitypapa

Active Member
homebrewer said:
I tested DG against the GH 3 part plus about 4 additives but the principle is still the same. Conni is a 2 part and when mixed it results in roughly a 1-1-2 ratio (http://www.advancednutrients.com/hydroponics/products/connoisseur/connoisseur_faq_nutrient_facts.php) which is not idea for flowering. To get the ideal ratio of 1-3-2, you need to add one of their products that supplies more P and they designed it like that on purpose so you need to buy more bottles. There is absolutely no reason they couldn't have given a better starting NPK in their base meaning you can spend less and grow better plants. On top of the lack luster NPK ratio, they only supply 7 of the 16 essential elements so what exactly is $150 for base nutes getting you?

In regards to GH, their resulting NPK ratio when I use them is roughly a 1-2-2 in flower and they supply 10 of 16 elements, not too bad for their price.

I'm not saying one brand is the end-all-be-all of nute brands but I am saying that NPK ratios and micro nutrient content is what growers should look for, not a brand name or a fancy label.
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Homebrewer, perhaps you can answer a basic question (or anyone else with knowledge). How do you calculate NPK ratios when mixing ferts? Does an equal portion of a 3-1-2 mixed with a 1-3-2 yield a 4-4-4 mix or a 2-2-2 mix?
 
homebrewer

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
rosecitypapa said:
Homebrewer, perhaps you can answer a basic question (or anyone else with knowledge). How do you calculate NPK ratios when mixing ferts? Does an equal portion of a 3-1-2 mixed with a 1-3-2 yield a 4-4-4 mix or a 2-2-2 mix?
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Yes, that's basically the idea unless one of the parts is substantially less potent than the other. That's where it gets complicated but a simple 'average' of the NPKs gives you a good enough idea.

Take AB for example. Part A is 4.0-0-2.0 and part B is 1.25-3.7-7.4 roughly resulting in a 5.25 - 3.7 - 9.4, not my idea NPK but it'll certainly work.
 
G37Kush

G37Kush

Active Member
homebrewer said:
Yes, that's basically the idea unless one of the parts is substantially less potent than the other. That's where it gets complicated but a simple 'average' of the NPKs gives you a good enough idea.

Take AB for example. Part A is 4.0-0-2.0 and part B is 1.25-3.7-7.4 roughly resulting in a 5.25 - 3.7 - 9.4, not my idea NPK but it'll certainly work.

Click to expand...

So do the same rules apply when you add additives or is only for base nutrients?
 
rosecitypapa

rosecitypapa

Active Member
homebrewer said:
Yes, that's basically the idea unless one of the parts is substantially less potent than the other. That's where it gets complicated but a simple 'average' of the NPKs gives you a good enough idea.
Click to expand...
What do you mean 'substantially less potent'? Is that the amount of ammoniac vs nitrate? Or that one mix might be 10-0-0 and the other 1-1-1? Is the 1-1-1 more potent because it has a proper ratio of nutrients allowing for more efficient uptake of them? Or is the 10-10-0 more potent because it has such a high nitrogen analysis?

Take AB for example. Part A is 4.0-0-2.0 and part B is 1.25-3.7-7.4 roughly resulting in a 5.25 - 3.7 - 9.4, not my idea NPK but it'll certainly work.
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Ok, so for this AB homebrew nutrient at 5.25 - 3.7 - 9.4, so that means 5.25 ppm of N right? So if I want to get to the 1-3-2 ratio I have to find a way of getting 12.05 ppm of P and 1.1 ppm of K into my AB nutrient, correct?

If I am going all the way, I'd consider looking at my calcium to be almost that of my nitrogen and my magnesium was half of my calcium. What's the next thing to focus upon, the ratio of ammoniac to nitrate?
 
homebrewer

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
G37Kush said:
So do the same rules apply when you add additives or is only for base nutrients?
Click to expand...
Multiple NPK-type additives can make final NPK ratios kind of confusing because they are never as potent as base nutes. What I mean by potent has nothing to do with the NPK rating, but more of their ppm/EC contribution. For instance, DG grow is 50% more potent than DG bloom, so when I want a 50/50 split, I use 1.5 parts bloom and 1 part grow. The resulting NPK ratio is the 'average' of the two (roughly estimating) because these base nutes are exactly the same except for their NPK content.

So if you're base nutes are contributing 200ppm per ml into a gallon of water and your 'booster' is only contributing 35ppm per ml into a gallon, you can't exactly 'average' them with a mix of 1:1.

I think the take away should be to minimize the number of NPK additives you use and start with better ratios out of your base.

Ok, so for this AB homebrew nutrient at 5.25 - 3.7 - 9.4, so that means 5.25 ppm of N right? So if I want to get to the 1-3-2 ratio I have to find a way of getting 12.05 ppm of P and 1.1 ppm of K into my AB nutrient, correct?
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The numbers on the front of the bottle have nothing to do with their ppm/EC contribution. A 20-20-20 is the same as a 1-1-1 and just because they used the number 20 doesn't mean it's a better value than 1-1-1.

In regards to the AB ratios, a 'booster' with the content of 0-10-0 would be great IMO.
 
G37Kush

G37Kush

Active Member
homebrewer said:
I think the take away should be to minimize the number of NPK additives you use and start with better ratios out of your base.
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That is pretty much the sum of this thread. I'm very glad I stumbled onto this thread. It has opened my eyes to the MJ market and nutrients.

And now that I'm going through the list of flowering nutes I was planning to buy soon I looked up Cannazym. NPK ratio of 0.1-0-0 at $26/per liter. I can already see rip-off. Oh man I'm probably going to cut out 60% of these nutes after looking up their npk ratios. Just gotta simplify my list.
 
I

incognegro999

Well-Known Member
Snow Crash

Snow Crash

Well-Known Member
I am really digging the Botanicare CNS 17 Coco/Soil system.
Grow: 3-1-2
Bloom: 2-2-3
Ripe: 1-5-4

At about $8/Qt. and $20/gallon online (before shipping) this system is very affordable.

Incorporate Botanicare Hydroplex at 0-10-6 to dial in the NPK ratio.

20ml of Bloom and 5ml of Hydroplex results in a 4-11-11 ratio (1-2.25-2.25) and about a 1.65 EC.
20ml of Ripe and 5ml of Hydroplex results in a 2-15-11 ratio (1-7.5-5.5) and about a 1.8 EC.

I'm sure there is a lot of talk here about DynaGro and their universally "perfect" ratios... different medias do require different ratios, and the Calcium and Magnesium buffer in CNS 17 makes a big difference in coco for sure. They have a hydro system as well but I cannot vouch for it (yet). Probably good stuff too.

Simple. Cheap. Effective. I think those are the corner stones of a superior system. CNS 17 from Botanicare fulfills these criteria.
 
rosecitypapa

rosecitypapa

Active Member
homebrewer said:
Multiple NPK-type additives can make final NPK ratios kind of confusing because they are never as potent as base nutes. What I mean by potent has nothing to do with the NPK rating, but more of their ppm/EC contribution. For instance, DG grow is 50% more potent than DG bloom, so when I want a 50/50 split, I use 1.5 parts bloom and 1 part grow. The resulting NPK ratio is the 'average' of the two (roughly estimating) because these base nutes are exactly the same except for their NPK content.

So if you're base nutes are contributing 200ppm per ml into a gallon of water and your 'booster' is only contributing 35ppm per ml into a gallon, you can't exactly 'average' them with a mix of 1:1.

I think the take away should be to minimize the number of NPK additives you use and start with better ratios out of your base.
Click to expand...
With the base nutes being 200 ppm per ml per gal of water, can I use the ratio's of NPK to determine the ppm's of each? If not, how would I?


homebrewer said:
The numbers on the front of the bottle have nothing to do with their ppm/EC contribution. A 20-20-20 is the same as a 1-1-1 and just because they used the number 20 doesn't mean it's a better value than 1-1-1.

In regards to the AB ratios, a 'booster' with the content of 0-10-0 would be great IMO.
Click to expand...
Isn't the 20-20-20 just 20x the concentration of 1-1-1?
 
homebrewer

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
rosecitypapa said:
With the base nutes being 200 ppm per ml per gal of water, can I use the ratio's of NPK to determine the ppm's of each? If not, how would I?
Click to expand...
This is a good piece of info if you wanted to get that exact about it:

The factors for converting from P2O5 and K2O values to their respective P and K elemental values are as follows:

  • P2O5 consists of 57.4% oxygen and 43.6% elemental phosphorus. The percentage([mass fraction]) of elemental phosphorus is 43.6% so P= 0.43 x P2O5

  • K2O consists of 17% oxygen and 83% elemental potassium. The percentage (mass fraction) of elemental potassium is 83% so K = 0.83 x K2O

  • Nitrogen values represent actual nitrogen content so these numbers do not need to be converted.
Using these conversion factors we can determine that an 18−51−20 fertilizer contains by weight:

  • 18% elemental (N)
  • 22% elemental (P), and
  • 16% elemental (K)
Click to expand...
... but you really don't need to be that exact. Find a brand with a desirable ratio and a solid micro nutrient content and you're set.

Isn't the 20-20-20 just 20x the concentration of 1-1-1?
Click to expand...
Supposedly that's sort of how it works but I know of a number of examples where the fertilizer is something like 10-10-10 and the 3-5-4 is more concentrated.
 
rosecitypapa

rosecitypapa

Active Member
homebrewer said:
This is a good piece of info if you wanted to get that exact about it:

... but you really don't need to be that exact. Find a brand with a desirable ratio and a solid micro nutrient content and you're set.
Click to expand...
Thanks homebrewer, I been reading up on some of your grows and they are great threads of solid info, props. I'm working to understand ratio's better perhaps an example would help.

I'm in a recirculating hydro set-up with a 15gal rez using AACT's brewed at 48hrs @ 72 degs.
My tap is at pH 7 with 80ppm.

I'm starting the 5th week of flower and was experiencing a lot of pH drift when I would mix up a fresh batch of nutes. I'd have to add pH down twice a day until day 2-3 then the pH would stabilize at the same time as precipitation fell out of solution.

I was running Botanicare's Pro-blend Grow 3-2-4 and Bloom 2-3-5, mixed 50/50. Then the additives of Sweet and LK.

In researching nutrients, the idea of 3-1-2 for grow and 1-3-2 for bloom was introduced as an 'ideal' ratio for cannabis.
So in my attempt to figure it out, having a table for ratio multiples gave me more of a target to hit.

1-3-2 is equal to
2-6-4
3-9-6
4-12-8
5-15-10
6-18-12
7-21-14

Then in coming up with a base nute, I took Dyna-Gro's 7-9-5 and Botanicare's Hydroplex 0-10-6, mixed in equal measure creates a solution that is 7-19-11. This gets me into the ballpark. Then I take a gal of water and add a prescribed rate of this solution to understand how many ppm's are contributed by this combination. This is the concentration I manipulate to get within striking range of the EC that I want.

Next, I looking to create a ratio of Mg/Ca/N, Mag half of Calcium and Calcium almost equal to Nitrogen (.8 to 1).
Using Sweet (Mg 1.5% , S 2.0%) and Cal-Mag (N 2%, Ca 3.2%, Mg 1.2%, Fe .1%), mixing these together at 1 part Sweet to 2 parts Cal-Mag gets me to a solution that is N 4%, Ca 6.2%, Mg 2.7%, S 2.0%, Fe .1%.
This gets me close to that Mg/Ca/N ratio. (Not quite but closer than not). Ideally having a Cal/Mg source that has no nitrogen would be perfect.

I know that Sweet contributes 104 ppm and Cal-Mag contributes 170 ppm to my test gallon - a total of 274 ppm (in theory). So at the rate of 5ml/gal of each (Sweet and Cal-mag), I know that 1ml Sweet contributes 25 ppm and 1 ml Cal-mag contributes 34 ppm to my test gallon.

Now I'm trying to understand how much of that 34 ppm is Calcium and how much in Magnesium. This is where my understanding stops. Because as you state in a previous post the ratio's aren't related to ppm's.

My goal is to understand if I am supplying my calcium in the 50-200 ppm range.

I'm not looking for a solution, more of an understanding on how these things work together. I know that using any nutrient line, will get me roughly the results I want but I'm really looking to dial in my nutrient choices with solid science and not marketing hype.


homebrewer said:
Supposedly that's sort of how it works but I know of a number of examples where the fertilizer is something like 10-10-10 and the 3-5-4 is more concentrated.
Click to expand...
Is this where the dilution rates are different? If the 3-5-4 is mixed at a tsp/gal and the 10-10-10 is tbs/gal then that makes sense.
 
homebrewer

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
rosecitypapa said:
I'm starting the 5th week of flower and was experiencing a lot of pH drift when I would mix up a fresh batch of nutes. I'd have to add pH down twice a day until day 2-3 then the pH would stabilize at the same time as precipitation fell out of solution.
Click to expand...
Certain nutrient brands are more pH stable than others. I've also found that high feeding levels (more food than the plants need) is often the culprit for unstable pH.

Then in coming up with a base nute, I took Dyna-Gro's 7-9-5 and Botanicare's Hydroplex 0-10-6, mixed in equal measure creates a solution that is 7-19-11. This gets me into the ballpark.
Click to expand...
DG also makes a 3-12-6 bloom formula and when mixed with the grow, it's a lot easier to achieve ideal ratios while keeping plants green and healthy until harvest day.


Next, I looking to create a ratio of Mg/Ca/N, Mag half of Calcium and Calcium almost equal to Nitrogen (.8 to 1).
Using Sweet (Mg 1.5% , S 2.0%) and Cal-Mag (N 2%, Ca 3.2%, Mg 1.2%, Fe .1%), mixing these together at 1 part Sweet to 2 parts Cal-Mag gets me to a solution that is N 4%, Ca 6.2%, Mg 2.7%, S 2.0%, Fe .1%.
This gets me close to that Mg/Ca/N ratio. (Not quite but closer than not). Ideally having a Cal/Mg source that has no nitrogen would be perfect.

I know that Sweet contributes 104 ppm and Cal-Mag contributes 170 ppm to my test gallon - a total of 274 ppm (in theory). So at the rate of 5ml/gal of each (Sweet and Cal-mag), I know that 1ml Sweet contributes 25 ppm and 1 ml Cal-mag contributes 34 ppm to my test gallon.

Now I'm trying to understand how much of that 34 ppm is Calcium and how much in Magnesium. My goal is to understand if I am supplying my calcium in the 50-200 ppm range.
Click to expand...
I love the attention to detail but in regards to the number crunching above , you just don't need to do it. If your base nutes are slowly creating deficiencies in your plants and you're feeding at appropriate levels, then properly identifying those deficiencies and adding cal/mag or backing off the phosphorus or whatever the solution may be....is your solution. As much as I wish plant health was quantifiable by numbers, it really isn't. Developing that green thumb and being able to read your girls is much more useful than a calculator.

I'm not looking for a solution, more of an understanding on how these things work together. I know that using any nutrient line, will get me roughly the results I want but I'm really looking to dial in my nutrient choices with solid science and not marketing hype.
Click to expand...
I recommend a certain brand and people then like to say i'm a broken record or work for the company, :lol:. PM me and i'll give you some details.
 
4

420jerry

Member
i used fox farm grow big for veg and fox farm big bloom and big bud for flowering and open seasame the last two weeks and it works great.Has any one used purple maxx or harden from humbolts own?
 
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