I could be wrong here but if you are saying you are giving them .5ml per galon its deficient even 1 ml per galon is low imo. The instructions even say 2-4ml per galon and if you are mixing up your other base nutrients in like .5ml vs 5ml that could also be your problem. For reference I use 4ml per galon of tap water in a rock wool medium and haven't experienced a lock out
Magnesium and Potassium Lockout due to too much Calcium?
- Thread starter RookieMuffin
- Start date
Boatguy
Well-Known Member
I have never done dwc, but right now i am growing in an gh waterfarm and keep my ec around 1.8.
If your ec is dropping significantly over the course of the day, you should increase it until it is at least slightly stable. Hungry plants will take up more nutes than water. Just move up slowly if you do try to increase it, and see what happens with the ec each day.
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RookieMuffin
Well-Known Member
I grow DWC hydroponics. First time problems like this. But I've switched to a high power LED light. I've read Calcium/Magnesium is a LED problem they need more... Anyway idk.
Nutes I use is General Hydroponics Tri Part
I use distilled water
My step-by-step of adding nutes is this: I take distilled water. I take bottle 1 of base nutes add them stir wait a little take bottle 2 of base nutes stir wait a little and so on. And then after base nutes are done I add the Epsom Salt.
At first my EC meter wasn't reliable but now I have a better one which is reliable and calibrated and maintained a lot! So the numbers EC now are right.
How much magnesium sulfate: Right now it's 0.75g/gallon because I don't want to overdo it. But later in this text (at the end) there is a better view of how I've used the epsom salt.
I have a 400W LED grow light right now at 12.5% dimmed because I don't want to use too much and the light is a bit oversized for the plant at full strength so I dim it down a lot. (The light is ment for the flower room but right now it's in the veg room). The distance right now is about 16 inches because I rant out of hight but I still think its more of a nutrient deficiency because even the small one which is way smaller so more distance in between the light maybe 30+ inches. And she even started to show signs when she was even further away and light was dimmed to 10%.
To see how the deficiencies started and how they spread read further I can show you how it started and how it progressed with pictures. Sorry for the wall of text but I try to explain everyithing.
At first only one plant had signs of deficiencies. This was on 12/17/2022 I was feeding way too much and the EC skyrocketed. This went on for some days. Until I lowered the EC about 5 days later. The other plants were ok and growing but only one showed first signs (which is the smallest and almost not growing at all right now)
12/17/2022
5 Days later the EC was very high and the other plants started to show signs too. I changed the res due to high EC and was feeding EC 1.05 (which consisted of about 0.6 EC base nutes and 0.45 EC Cal/Mag)
12/22/2022
Now after changing the res I started to panic and changed the Res and nutrients strength/ratios a lot because deficiencies got even worse which made me panic. I for example first used less Cal/Mag. Then next res change a day later I used less base nutes and more Cal/Mag. I was down to EC 0.9 (0.45 base nutes and 0.45 Cal/Mag)
12/25/2022
Since I paniced and the deficiencies got worse I was still changing the res and the nute strength/ratios on a daily basis. The lowes I went was about EC 0.78 (with base nutes 0.38 and Cal/Mag 0.4). As you can guess over the next days the deficiencies got even worse but all plants were growing except for the one who got damaged first... She stalled. The others grew even with deficiencies.
01/03/2023
Smallest Plant looks stalled compared to some days earlier.
Other plant that still grows even with deficiencies
I started to worry even more and started to ask on RIU for help! They advised me to use more base nutes because plants are starving and to use less Cal/Mag see how that goes. So on 01/03/2023 I changed the Res and EC was 1.0 (0.8 EC base nutes and 0.2 EC Cal/Mag)
Two days later I added more Cal/Mag because plant still got worse and still was panicing instead of beeing chill and don't change as much. (later I got more chill and didn't change as much as often). EC around 1.3 by now.
01/05/2023
Now I stopped changing the Res on a daily basis because people told me to chill and I was only watching the EC raise/fall and acted acordingly (Adding Cal/Mag water when EC raises and adding Nute water if EC lowers) but the EC raised all the time so I was only adding water with Cal/Mag added to it. So the EC didn't change a lot after last res change for about 10 days it was in the 1.1-1.4 range and most of the time I've only added Cal/Mag water because the EC kept rising so I always tried to dilute it. (Maybe this was also a problem because the Cal/Mag accumulated over time)
01/15/2023
By now I stopped panicing because people calmed me down but the deficiencies still kept going even after 15 days after the res change and about 0.45 EC Cal/Mag. I was still wondering and still asking people on RIU for help. I also suspected my PH/EC pens to be malfunctioning from beginning of the grow because they ALWAYS measured different number which didn't make sense to me. Some times I needed 0.5ml for 0.4EC and sometimes I needed 0.8ml to reach 0.45 EC which didn't make sense in my eyes so I ditched them and bought new better pens. As you can see on the 01/15/2023 pictured the deficiencies still went on (even with 0.45 EC Cal/Mag) but they progressed slower. And look at the growing speed of the smallest plant compared to the other! The plant who got deficient first is not growing at all in 10 days whereas the other plants grow even if deficient.
Anyway I started to use the new PH/EC pens which gave me more accurate readings and were stable now. But I made a stupid thing... I lowered the base nutrients again and increased the Cal/Mag. So on 01/15/2023 I changed the Res and it was EC 1.28 (now only 0.72 base nutes and 0.56 Cal/Mag)
Now 2 days later the deficiencies still progressed even after 0.56 EC Cal/Mag (but lower base nutes) so was asking for help again and people told me to raise the base EC because plant is starving (and to add epsom salt for magnesium instead of Cal/Mag but it took some time to get my hand on epsom salt so I only fed base nutes from now on).
01/17/2023
I cut here because too much attachments. Next post goes on!
1/2
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RookieMuffin
Well-Known Member
2/2 Text goes on!
I started to even calm more down. From 01/17/2023 on I used only base nutrients but this time I increased the dosage to about 1.08 EC only base nutrients (because no epsom salt on hand how people recommended)
Fast forward a week I got my hands on some empsom salt. After increasing the base nutrients the plants started to grow way faster than before but not the smallest. She still was stalling and didn't grow at all from 01/17/2023 to 01/24/2023. The started to grow faster but the deficiencies got even worse! (which may be because of no Cal/Mag at all and no epsom salt on hand so only base nutes)
01/24/2023
Now I got my epsom salt I started to add it to the reservoir but I was going easy on it because I was scared to overdo it again and making things worse again. First I started with about 0.5g Epsom Salt per gallon (about 0.1EC) and a day later was adding another 0.5g per gallon so epsom salt was about 0.2EC now and 1.0 EC base nutes so 1.2 EC total.
But in about 3 days plants still was getting worse so I increased the base EC again and stopped Epsom Salt for 2 day because I still experimented and didn't want to overdo it so I was looking how they reacted to a higher base nutrients EC and no Epsom Salt. Ec is 1.3 base nutrients only. They kept growing good (except for the smallest one which is very slow but she started growing again!)
01/28/2023
The last thing I did I've added Epsom Salt again because deficiencies still progressed after 1.3 EC base nurtients increased. That was on 01/30/2023. EC is about 1.5 now with (1.38EC base nutes and rest Epsom Salt about 0.75g per gallon) I was using a little less Epsom salt because I'm still worried about using too much and it's hard to find some good info on how much EC epsom to use. Most is just teaspoon measurements and so on and that's too much that I would add I think so I go with grams and EC.
I didn't change anything by now. They still are on EC ~1.5 with 1.3 base nutrients and rest Epsom Salt. The last picture looks like this:
02/01/2023
They grew and even the smallest started to grow again. Now I'm waiting how the new leaves turn out if they become deficient again or if it stops now!
That's why I also started asking how much a plant this size should eat! Anyway that's how it went... Maybe you can give some advice on how to progress further. I think I'm on the right track because they are growing and even the smallest started to grow again. But I don't know if I will need more Epsom Salt or more base nutrients or neither... idk.
I started to even calm more down. From 01/17/2023 on I used only base nutrients but this time I increased the dosage to about 1.08 EC only base nutrients (because no epsom salt on hand how people recommended)
Fast forward a week I got my hands on some empsom salt. After increasing the base nutrients the plants started to grow way faster than before but not the smallest. She still was stalling and didn't grow at all from 01/17/2023 to 01/24/2023. The started to grow faster but the deficiencies got even worse! (which may be because of no Cal/Mag at all and no epsom salt on hand so only base nutes)
01/24/2023
Now I got my epsom salt I started to add it to the reservoir but I was going easy on it because I was scared to overdo it again and making things worse again. First I started with about 0.5g Epsom Salt per gallon (about 0.1EC) and a day later was adding another 0.5g per gallon so epsom salt was about 0.2EC now and 1.0 EC base nutes so 1.2 EC total.
But in about 3 days plants still was getting worse so I increased the base EC again and stopped Epsom Salt for 2 day because I still experimented and didn't want to overdo it so I was looking how they reacted to a higher base nutrients EC and no Epsom Salt. Ec is 1.3 base nutrients only. They kept growing good (except for the smallest one which is very slow but she started growing again!)
01/28/2023
The last thing I did I've added Epsom Salt again because deficiencies still progressed after 1.3 EC base nurtients increased. That was on 01/30/2023. EC is about 1.5 now with (1.38EC base nutes and rest Epsom Salt about 0.75g per gallon) I was using a little less Epsom salt because I'm still worried about using too much and it's hard to find some good info on how much EC epsom to use. Most is just teaspoon measurements and so on and that's too much that I would add I think so I go with grams and EC.
I didn't change anything by now. They still are on EC ~1.5 with 1.3 base nutrients and rest Epsom Salt. The last picture looks like this:
02/01/2023
They grew and even the smallest started to grow again. Now I'm waiting how the new leaves turn out if they become deficient again or if it stops now!
That's why I also started asking how much a plant this size should eat! Anyway that's how it went... Maybe you can give some advice on how to progress further. I think I'm on the right track because they are growing and even the smallest started to grow again. But I don't know if I will need more Epsom Salt or more base nutrients or neither... idk.
Boatguy
Well-Known Member
Stop worrying about the calmag. Just add base nutes.
RookieMuffin
Well-Known Member
I think we talk about different Cal/Mag products because as I stated in the post you have quoted I say "On my bottle it says to use 0.1 - 0.5ml/L until EC 0.45 is reached. And I need 0.8ml to reach 0.45 EC... And when I still got deficiencies I started using 1ml and 0.58EC."
I use MORE than the bottle recommended PLUS it's in ml per Litre maybe you have overseen that.
So in ml per gallon it would be like 0.38-1.9ml per gallon until 0.45 EC is reached and I used 3.4 ml per gallon in my reservoir to reach 0.45 EC.
I think you got something wrong there. My instruction on my bottle doesn't say to use 2-4ml per gallon. I've told you what my bottle says and I think we use different Cal/Mag different brand or something.
RookieMuffin
Well-Known Member
I measure EC daily too and add acordingly. If EC raises I add only water and lower EC. If EC lowers I add more nutes. If EC stays stable I add water with same EC nutes as in res.
RookieMuffin
Well-Known Member
I only use base nutrients and a little epsom salt right now. I think it's working better than before! I don't use ANY Cal/Mag right now because all of you told me to ditch it and use base nutrients only. But even with base nutrients the deficiencies kept going so I've added epsom salt like rurumo (and some others) have said.
EC 1.38 base nutrients and about 0.16EC Epsom Salt.
And that's why I asked some posts ago how much a plant my size would aproximately eat. If EC 1.3 base nutes is to low or too high or right.
Boatguy
Well-Known Member
calmag adds to ec. Only a small percentage is N.
First dial in you base nutes, and then work on dialing in the calmag. I have had very good luck with floranova bloom without adding anything else.
Good luck with your grow
RookieMuffin
Well-Known Member
I know it does but I don't know how much of the EC is N.
You only use flora nova bloom? So just like the lucas formula? Do you grow with LED (people say it needs more calciusm/magnesium) or what light do you use?
So you think EC 1.3 base nutrients is still not enough and I should use even more?
Thanks!
So I see you said you "My step-by-step of adding nutes is this: I take distilled water. I take bottle 1 of base nutes add them stir wait a little take bottle 2 of base nutes stir wait a little and so on. And then after base nutes are done I add the Epsom Salt." Can you tell me the exact measurements of nutrients you are adding per gallon of water? ie 1ml flora bloom, 2ml flora micro, 3ml floragrow, 3ml calimagic.
RookieMuffin
Well-Known Member
Again I don't use calimagic. I have used CalMag Agent from Canna. I DON'T use Cal/Mag at all right now! Now I use Epsom Salt instead of Cal/Mag. And the CALMAG AGENT from CANNA has different dosage recommendations than your CALIMAGIC.
The last res I mixed like this:
I started with distilled water. EC 0.0
I add 5ml per gallon Flora Micro stir wait
I add 10ml per gallon Flora Bloom stir wait.
Then my EC is about 1.38
Then I added 0.75g per gallon epsom salt and end EC was about 1.54
Again I DON'T use Cal/Mag right now because people told me to only use epsom salt because it's a magnesium deficiency and I should only treat that. And again I DON'T have calimagic I have CALMAG AGENT from CANNA.
Hope that clear things up.
Boatguy
Well-Known Member
My current grow is here.
Nyc Piff #3 PCG Cut
First Strainly purchase, first hydro grow. 3x3 acinfinity tent, diy hlg 648 two boards at 250w Gh Maxibloom start to finish Lets see how this goes... Dec 1 Dec 10 Dec 15
www.rollitup.org
Basically a lucas formula. Is a clone though
RookieMuffin
Well-Known Member
I'll look into it thanks! I use lucas formula too!
Could you say something about the 1.3 EC base nutrients question? Might it be not enough? As I see in your thread you use LED too... not a single problem with cal/mag and led? I've read a lot of people have this problem
looks like I have it too.Sorry I must have miss read my bad
https://www.cannagardening.com/calmag-agent) <-your link. "On my bottle it says to use 0.1 - 0.5ml/L until EC 0.45 is reached" 0.5ml is the low end recommendation 0.1ml per liter is almost nothing.
Boatguy
Well-Known Member
I cant help you there. I have just watched the ec and adjusted accordingly.I'll look into it thanks! I use lucas formula too!
Could you say something about the 1.3 EC base nutrients question? Might it be not enough? As I see in your thread you use LED too... not a single problem with cal/mag and led? I've read a lot of people have this problem
RookieMuffin
Well-Known Member
No problem dude!
I've used more than recommended! I used 0.8ml per litre and still got deficiencies. I think I was overdoing it! I've even used 1.0ml per litre so double the recommended dose and even got deficient plants! The EC of Cal/Mag alone was 0.56 EC what you can read in my big post on how the deficiencies began and progressed!
And now I don't use any Cal/Mag only the epsom salt because people recommended to ditch the calmag and only treat the magnesium deficiency with epsom salt.
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RookieMuffin
Well-Known Member
Ok thanks. That's what I do!
And what would you say what to do? The EC seems to be right but plants still get deficient... Adding more Epsom salt? Looks like my setup needs it. Maybe just Lucas formula isn't enough for me and my light...
Okay but wait a sec if you are using 0.8ml per galon of water the link you posted under directions of use says to use 2-4ml per galon or 5-10ml per 10liters
RookieMuffin
Well-Known Member
You read that wrong again! I was using 0.8ml PER LITRE and later I was using 1.0ml PER LITRE!! So thats about 3.8ml PER GALLON!!
And the directions in the internet is not what is stated on MY BOTTLE. Maybe my bottle is a older version or it's the EU verion not the US verion or whatever.
AS I told you. I quote it again "ON MY BOTTLE it says to use 0.1 - 0.5ml/L until EC 0.45 is reached. And I need 0.8ml to reach 0.45 EC... And when I still got deficiencies I started using 1ml and 0.58EC."
Again its ml PER LITRE not PER GALLON
The link was only provided so people can get a look at the manufacturer and see its not calimagic and so on.