Make Liberalism Great Again

UncleBuck said:
we don't need racists or racist apologists in our party. we'll do just fine without you.
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Here's the thing though...it's not your party. The people spoke, and sent Hillary out to pasture. It's Bernie's party now, and they will surely learn some lessons from this and run a better candidate, with a better message in 2020.

Meanwhile, you can hang out on RIU and continue stomping your feet.
 
UncleBuck said:
if calling racists "racist" means they won't vote for us, good.

we don't want racists in our party. are you forgetting this?
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Get ready for a long wait in the cold.

If we don't appeal to their better nature, or at least enlightened self interest, they won't vote for us. It's really that simple.
 
UncleBuck said:
you're right, let's stop calling out obvious racism when we see it.

as white people, it won't affect us at all.

SMART!
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UncleBuck said:
would rather lose on a moral platform than "win" by coddling racists.
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Yep, it's going to be a long, cold wait in your ivory tower of divisiveness.

I'm not saying we should condone or tolerate racism. I'm saying we find common ground where we CAN create a coalition.

The racism conversation isn't going to win votes.
 
UncleBuck said:
you're right, let's stop calling out obvious racism when we see it.

as white people, it won't affect us at all.

SMART!
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You piss and moan about people being judgemental douche bags, but yet you spend all day every day hurling insults at others. Fat, ugly, retarded, etc.

You have more in common with the people you deride than you care to acknowledge.
 
st0wandgrow said:
You piss and moan about people being judgemental douche bags, but yet you spend all day every day hurling insults at others. Fat, ugly, retarded, etc.

You have more in common with the people you deride than you care to acknowledge.
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WELL SAID.

The high horse thing won't get liberals into positions of authority to effect change.

Buck's insistence on focusing on divisions is playing right into the hands of the rich.
 
Padawanbater2 said:
No, that's why I said addressing it is an important issue. But when you attempt to address it in a way that alienates a large portion of the base, you are not running a successful political strategy. Sanders, for example, addressed it in a way that actually affects minorities; by talking about the economic aspect of the problem. By talking about policy and avoiding identity politics and shallow rhetoric and empty platitudes. Hillary Clinton called Trump supporters 'deplorable'. You ever hear the saying that you'll catch more flies with honey than you will with vinegar? "Kill em with kindness"? Or that story about German POWs during WW2 being given extraordinary treatment by their allied captors that they began voluntarily giving away information?

All you're going to do by calling people names is turn them against you, it simply is not a winning strategy.
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I'm not sure I understand. Do you agree with me when I say that Donald Trump's speech during rallies that was racially charged and directed at Muslims and Hispanics is in part the reason for the rise in hate crimes during the election season?

The reason I'm asking is that I think what people say matters. Trump's rhetoric against Hispanics and calling illegal immigrants rapists and criminals incited some people to harm others. Should fair minded people not say anything against him doing that? What would you suggest?
 
st0wandgrow said:
Coming from the guy bitching about liberals that wouldn't vote for Hillary because she was morally objectionable to them. Which way do you want it??
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ttystikk said:
WELL SAID.

The high horse thing won't get liberals into positions of authority to effect change.

Buck's insistence on focusing on divisions is playing right into the hands of the rich.
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How should one respond to the hate speech by Donald Trump? Are you saying the R word should not be used in response when Trump most clearly used racially charged rhetoric in his speeches?
 
Fogdog said:
I'm not sure I understand. Do you agree with me when I say that Donald Trump's speech during rallies that was racially charged and directed at Muslims and Hispanics is in part the reason for the rise in hate crimes during the election season?
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Yes
Fogdog said:
The reason I'm asking is that I think what people say matters. Trump's rhetoric against Hispanics and calling illegal immigrants rapists and criminals incited some people to harm others. Should fair minded people not say anything against him doing that? What would you suggest?
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Calling out actual racism is not what I'm talking about. Some members of the far left using racism as the basis to stop free speech is one of the reasons many independents and working class Americans voted for Trump. Regular people are tired of being called racist if they oppose illegal immigration. They're tired of being called sexist if they oppose Hillary Clinton for president. Neither of those positions are in and of themselves racist or sexist.
 
Padawanbater2 said:
Regular people are tired of being called racist if they oppose illegal immigration. They're tired of being called sexist if they oppose Hillary Clinton for president.
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If they were opposed to both Hillary and illegal immigration, they were going to vote for Trump no matter what anyone called them.
 
Padawanbater2 said:
Yes

Calling out actual racism is not what I'm talking about. Some members of the far left using racism as the basis to stop free speech is one of the reasons many independents and working class Americans voted for Trump. Regular people are tired of being called racist if they oppose illegal immigration. They're tired of being called sexist if they oppose Hillary Clinton for president. Neither of those positions are in and of themselves racist or sexist.
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It is not racist to oppose illegal immigration, I agree with you about that. It is the rhetoric that Trump and his followers use that is racist.

"They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people." If this statement were true, it would not be a racist statement but Trump is casting a huge number of people who are motivated by economic hardship and who are model members of society when they get here as the worst sort of criminals. Should we not call this speech racist? What do you suggest when other people such as @NLXSK1 or @Flaming Pie say the same?

I don't understand what you propose fair minded people should do. I don't know what you propose a reporter should say when hearing Trump's speech.
 
Fogdog said:
It is not racist to oppose illegal immigration, I agree with you about that. It is the rhetoric that Trump and his followers use that is racist.

"They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people." If this statement were true, it would not be a racist statement but Trump is casting a huge number of people who are motivated by economic hardship and who are model members of society when they get here as the worst sort of criminals. Should we not call this speech racist? What do you suggest when other people such as @NLXSK1 or @Flaming Pie say the same?

I don't understand what you propose fair minded people should do. I don't know what you propose a reporter should say when hearing Trump's speech.
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To reiterate, I don't think there's anything wrong with calling actual racism what it is. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the people that make up a small segment of the extreme left using racism or sexism or whatever to silence free speech. Instead of saying "You have a right to say that, this is why I think you're wrong", they say "You don't have a right to say that". That distinction is important.
 
Fogdog said:
How should one respond to the hate speech by Donald Trump? Are you saying the R word should not be used in response when Trump most clearly used racially charged rhetoric in his speeches?
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Acknowledge it, point out that its wrong and that you don't condone it, and stay on message. Stooping to that level and hurling insults back doesn't work. Michele Obama recognized that.

I really think racism is getting more play in this election than it deserves. Trump did not win because he channelled the inner-racism from millions of folks. People voted for him IN SPITE of the rhetoric. Hillary Clinton was not the right candidate. A lot of people voted against Hillary, not for Trump.

Of course there are racist people in America. Of course they're going to vote for Trump. Those people didnt decide the election though. To suggest that everyone who voted for Trump did so because they're racist is ridiculous. Did you love everything about Clinton, or did you vote for her in spite of her shortcomings in order to keep Trump out of office? Why is it so hard for people to understand that this is true for a lot of Trump voters too?
 
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