Manifold 1st time grower near flip, need help

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
Hi Ladies and Gents,

First time growing, I used the basic organic soil recipe including plantone and kelp and neem meal, crab meal and so forth, followed recipe to a T. I cooked it for about 45 days, germinated seeda in cubes and then transferred directly to 7 gal smart pots. I realize an interim transplant to 1 or 2 gal would have helped. I am at 60 days from seed and vertically they need to be flipped within a week or so. I really need some help here.

I use water from my faucet, left out to sit for a few days. I have been adding 2.5ml per gallon of cal mag +, and have tried not to do a lot else to the water I add. I have been ph the water with ph down to about 6.2 the last few waterings. Ive tested the runoff and a slurry test, i get roughly 6.8ph to the soil...so 6.2 was done to try and insure magnesium is being absorbed (right or wrong, not saying i know).

Watering occurs every 4 days...used to be about half gallon, then i read a thread a week or so ago about slow watering and began doing 1 quart at a time, slowly around edge then last quart down the middle. I have never had runoff as the big bags versus the plants...i guess i didnt want to overwater for the plant size.

So it occured to me maybe i had not watered enough...last 2 waterings i did a full gallon per plant. Neither time did i get runoff. This last watering, 1 day ago, i added 1/2 tsp recharge in the hopes that it would stimulate what looks to me like an ongoing deficiency.

I had fungus gnats at the beginning, and have put out the sticky traps, and sprayed a Neem spray on the soil only, immediately after each watering. They are under control and few showing up on stickies lately.

I have an exhaust system, rotating fans, and have done a good job keeping temps between 73 and 77 the entire time, rh about 55 to 62%.

I have 8 qb288v1, on 2 heatsinks, 4 ea. Way up high now about 30" above tops. Running 250w each, approx 25 to 30k lux on my meter.

I just cannot get what has always appeared as a Magnesium def (to ME) to go away.

I have attached pictures. I know manifolding (mainlining style) is ambitious but im a hard worker!

Please help...i need to flip soon, they are about 12 to 17" tall and i figure by 20" or so i need to flip.

The pics are 2 of the more affected plants. All from exact same soil. I am more than willing to provide more pics or background.

I have been running 24 0 the entire time, mostly because its easier to control temp and humidity doing so. Open to all ideas, please share and be gentle when criticizing

I loosened all the mainline ties and let them just grow as of yesterday, I realized they were getting stuck a bit on the ties and their fans were starting to grow over them.

Cc
 

Attachments

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
One note...the deficiency has usually been such that new growth looks green and fine...and old growth gets chlorosis like a mag def. I have a bit od pink/brown burn on new growth tips in a few places, but mostly just some tip burn all around.
 

Thundercat

Well-Known Member
I bet if you raise your temps to 82ish it will help things. Seems to be what all the LED guys have to do so that the plants will transpire properly. It's very possible your plants have everything they need right now, but can't uptake the nutrients properly because of transpiration issues. It looks like mostly old growth that has the issue not new growth, so if you fix the conditions it should allow the plant to grow out better.

I could be wrong I havn't grown with LEDs yet, but I've seen similar issues in peoples gardens on here for years.
 

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
Tcat thank u very much for the suggestion. I have to use heat to do so....so that would be fine, i currently use heat to maintain 75. Any additional suggestions or any other folks that can confirm this are very welcome.
 

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
Ive got an oil heater warming it up, shooting for 79-80 for now. Not sure i can get humidity much above 60% though at that temp...thoughts? Vpd charts say 70 to 75% ideally...that seems beyond what I see most or anybody say they get up to...?
 

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
Thanks again TC. I have it stabilizing around 79 to 80 with a 60 to 65% humidity level. Ill keep a close eye on it...if need be ill go down a degree to get the rh higher unless you or someone else feels 60 to 65 at 80f is ok in late veg.

I do see a bit of fade still in the new growth as it ages...whatever I have is not fully fixed yet and Im sure in organic soil I can't expect a big change in a day or 2. I will say though that WOW all the hype about Recharge appears valid. Im 36hrs from the last watering, 1st with recharge and some of the tops grew 2 or 3 inches in that time.
 

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
Hi again gents. Updated pic 2 days from last. Id like to flip in next 3 days.

Anybody confident it will be ok, or any opinions i nees to veg longer for more recovery?

Some may stretch 2.5x so to be safe its about time! Excited but a bit worried don't want to mess it up!

Thanks as always...Cc
 

Attachments

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
CC,
I'd defoliate the heck out of them...which will delay things a bit. Get your soil ussue resolved...before the flip. Just doesn't seem prudent to start flowering with a deficient plant.
JD
Makes sense...i had done that a few weeks back which i thought maybe caused part of the problem now...but im really not sure.
 

JohnDee

Well-Known Member
Makes sense...i had done that a few weeks back which i thought maybe caused part of the problem now...but im really not sure.
With such rich soil...you could be locking out something...probably K+ which also exhibits that striped leaf pattern. Tell us about your tap water. Really hard? Maybe something in your water is causing the lockout.

I have no experience growing with leds alone...but TC's assessment makes sense.

Defoliation would not influence plant nutrition...may slow things down temporarily is all.
JD
 

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
Water is 7.4 from faucet, ppm is reasonable (dont remember but 150 or 200 max) and uses chlorine. I have been ph down to 6.2 last few. I have addes 2.5ml calmagplus per gallon last 2 waterings. I do let the water air out for 2 or 3 days. Tries recharge this last watering and it could be my microbes and roots needed a boost...

When i defoliated before, i didnt reduce lighting...i could see how not doing so maybe burned them a bit and caused nute probs.

I also agree it looks a bit like k...sometimes i see a touch of what looks like pink in a vein here or there...maybe P? Sigh. This is the problem. I will say recharge helped, maybe another watering or 2 with it?

Runoff and slurry tests show me about 6.8ph. If i test the same soil uncooked (i had extra), its about 5.8 which i think follows typical organic super mixes. Mild fungus gnats still but maybe a few dozen on the yellow stickies in the last week incl all the yellow cards.

Im a noob so i know not to change too much. I did buy a small set of FF nutes and uaed a tiny bit of big bloom maybe 4 watetings ago...but realized i should have plenty of nutes.

Im not lost but kind of at a loss what if anything to change. I get a slow fade like u said either Mag or K but don't know enough to try and change anything.
 

JohnDee

Well-Known Member
Water is 7.4 from faucet, ppm is reasonable (dont remember but 150 or 200 max) and uses chlorine. I have been ph down to 6.2 last few. I have addes 2.5ml calmagplus per gallon last 2 waterings. I do let the water air out for 2 or 3 days. Tries recharge this last watering and it could be my microbes and roots needed a boost...

When i defoliated before, i didnt reduce lighting...i could see how not doing so maybe burned them a bit and caused nute probs.

I also agree it looks a bit like k...sometimes i see a touch of what looks like pink in a vein here or there...maybe P? Sigh. This is the problem. I will say recharge helped, maybe another watering or 2 with it?

Runoff and slurry tests show me about 6.8ph. If i test the same soil uncooked (i had extra), its about 5.8 which i think follows typical organic super mixes. Mild fungus gnats still but maybe a few dozen on the yellow stickies in the last week incl all the yellow cards.

Im a noob so i know not to change too much. I did buy a small set of FF nutes and uaed a tiny bit of big bloom maybe 4 watetings ago...but realized i should have plenty of nutes.

Im not lost but kind of at a loss what if anything to change. I get a slow fade like u said either Mag or K but don't know enough to try and change anything.
CC,
I would personally back off on the calmag. Don't use any and see what changes you get. Mg is the central molecule in chlorophyll and if you had that advanced a Mg deficiency...you would be seeing much worse issues.

If it gets worse...then you will know the problem. If it gets better...you may have an interaction caused by Ca or Mg...
JD

PS Your water is not perfect but should be useable. I'd also raise the ph to mid 6.
 

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
CC,
I would personally back off on the calmag. Don't use any and see what changes you get. Mg is the central molecule in chlorophyll and if you had that advanced a Mg deficiency...you would be seeing much worse issues.

If it gets worse...then you will know the problem. If it gets better...you may have an interaction caused by Ca or Mg...
JD

PS Your water is not perfect but should be useable. I'd also raise the ph to mid 6.
Im happy to do EXACTLY as u say. Thank u, I will and report back! Im not going to do a big defol now just because im too new to risk it.
 

Thundercat

Well-Known Member
CC,
I'd defoliate the heck out of them...which will delay things a bit. Get your soil ussue resolved...before the flip. Just doesn't seem prudent to start flowering with a deficient plant.
JD
I think this is great advice honestly. I'm all for defoliation in veg, not a fan of totally stripping plants in flower. Striping some fan leaves will open up more bud sites, and allow more air flow. If the new growth is coming in healthy you might have already fixed it, and don't need to change anything else. It takes time for these plants to react, so its good to take your time with them.

With such rich soil...you could be locking out something...probably K+ which also exhibits that striped leaf pattern. Tell us about your tap water. Really hard? Maybe something in your water is causing the lockout.

I have no experience growing with leds alone...but TC's assessment makes sense.

Defoliation would not influence plant nutrition...may slow things down temporarily is all.
JD
I also agree with this. Lockouts and deficiancies can be hard to tell apart some times. Your water doesn't sound terrible but as high as it is I bet it already has a lot of calcium in it. So adding more calmag on top of that on top of whats already in the soil might be overloading the plants system.

1574622950952.png

To much K can prevent mag uptake even if there is plenty of mag. Temps can be off preventing uptake of a nutrient, which then causes an issue with a different one................

I like Johns suggestion to defol and give it a chance recover before flipping. Once you start seeing some strong growth again flip em and keep them happy.
 

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
Ok...i will defol if you agree. Ive seen nugbuckets took it all off before flower. What about lighting though...if i am at 25 to 30k lux, can i leave it like that after a defol?

Can either of you give me some detail on how much and where to defol? Heck i mase it this far ill take any risk to get it right.
 

JohnDee

Well-Known Member
Ok...i will defol if you agree. Ive seen nugbuckets took it all off before flower. What about lighting though...if i am at 25 to 30k lux, can i leave it like that after a defol?

Can either of you give me some detail on how much and where to defol? Heck i mase it this far ill take any risk to get it right.
I focus on two main areas. Leaves and small branches way down low...they don't add much. And leaves at the center of the plant. When you train...you sometimes get leaves growing in odd angles. Plus all that leaf congestion is a humidity trap. So open up the inside and down below. Then take a picture...
JD
 

Thundercat

Well-Known Member
Ok...i will defol if you agree. Ive seen nugbuckets took it all off before flower. What about lighting though...if i am at 25 to 30k lux, can i leave it like that after a defol?

Can either of you give me some detail on how much and where to defol? Heck i mase it this far ill take any risk to get it right.
YOur lighting will be fine, the plants are big enough it won't hurt a thing, and John explained the defol well ;).
 
Top