Manifold 1st time grower near flip, need help

C

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
Gents i cant thank u enough. A couple easy tasks i will get on it and update here as i go.

So true about the K...calmag+ has a lot more cal and i can see how leaves are yellowing like the k is going out of whack.

So, so many variables. Thx again for distilling this down to a few things i can do and worst that happens is not so bad.

I had removed all branches except the main colas until about 2 or 3 sets ago...i let it grow out as i got to a point i wasnt sure what to do.

Cant thank u enough!
 
C

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
It took roughly 15min per plant. As soon as I started doing it, it made total sense and I completely get why you experienced gents made the suggestion. 2 big ziplocs full of leaves later, we have our new and improved photo of the results!

The plant in the back middle is the smallest. It had the worst of the fungus gnats early on and did exactly what Jon said they might...it had leaves growing up way above the actual tops.

All the others I cleared all the lower fans, lower branches, then cleared out most of the center space. Amazing how much better airflow is and also how the light hits the tops as it should.

Before I started I reread a half dozen defoliation guides, reading over and over warnings that defoliation is ONLY FOR VERY EXPERIENCED GROWERS. Lol yeah maybe i got in deep here but so what, you live once...

Hoping I get a decent review for my work. I tried to follow Jons advice and did the best I could.

Most need to be watered tomorrow, a couple can go another day still from using the moisture meter stuck way down deep.

Jon and TC can/should I use recharge again with this watering or just H2O with ph of about 6.5?

TC the pots are drying much faster, I assume your suggestion to go up to 80 or so is the reason.

Again you kind folks gave advice purely out of kindness and I do appreciate it. It could well be the difference between a decent result and what could have been very mediocre. Looking forward to seeing how they grow from here. Cheers and much thanks to you both!
 

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JohnDee

JohnDee

Well-Known Member
ComfortCreator said:
It took roughly 15min per plant. As soon as I started doing it, it made total sense and I completely get why you experienced gents made the suggestion. 2 big ziplocs full of leaves later, we have our new and improved photo of the results!

The plant in the back middle is the smallest. It had the worst of the fungus gnats early on and did exactly what Jon said they might...it had leaves growing up way above the actual tops.

All the others I cleared all the lower fans, lower branches, then cleared out most of the center space. Amazing how much better airflow is and also how the light hits the tops as it should.

Before I started I reread a half dozen defoliation guides, reading over and over warnings that defoliation is ONLY FOR VERY EXPERIENCED GROWERS. Lol yeah maybe i got in deep here but so what, you live once...

Hoping I get a decent review for my work. I tried to follow Jons advice and did the best I could.

Most need to be watered tomorrow, a couple can go another day still from using the moisture meter stuck way down deep.

Jon and TC can/should I use recharge again with this watering or just H2O with ph of about 6.5?

TC the pots are drying much faster, I assume your suggestion to go up to 80 or so is the reason.

Again you kind folks gave advice purely out of kindness and I do appreciate it. It could well be the difference between a decent result and what could have been very mediocre. Looking forward to seeing how they grow from here. Cheers and much thanks to you both!
Click to expand...
You did good. Now give them some water only recovery time...and you should be able to decide if the plants deficiency is improving. I'm hoping it will.
JD
 
C

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
Last night I noticed as the pots were drying the humidifier couldn't keep up, so I added a second one. Humidity got high enough this a.m. to be in the ideal vpd range and EVERY one of them is praying like never before. Amazing! Higher temp + ideal vpd + defol =......(see pic).

I know this doesnt magically fix the problems from before but im sure it must be a good sign.
 

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C

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
Thanks TC and JohnDee im looking forward to the next week and hoping they stay strong and healthy. No doubt its your advice that got things moving in the right direction!
 
C

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
Im wondering if fungus gnats could be my cause of deficiencies?

Ive sprayed the top of the soil immediately after each watering with some neem oil spray, and use the sticky cards. I know i still have some, but it seems limited and few appear on the leaves, but i do catch many each week on the cards. I dont mind managing them this way, but wondered if there is an organic solution to getting rid of them once and for all?

I have:
Natria Neem oul concentrate (used as soil topical spray after most waterings, not a lot but cover the soil. No leaves as i am 24 0 and have no leaf damage)
Monterey Garden Insect Spray - never used
Diatomaceous Earth - never used

My soil mix has neem cake and crab meal bit obv that doesnt stop them completely.

I have 6 sticky cards out at the moment, all have some say 20 to 30 each, which is def a weeks worth or maybe even a half a weeks worth.

Im not in a hurry to do anything here but thinking out loud...if theres an oeganic solution i could try that wouldn't mess things up worse i would be more than willing to try it.

Things still looking pretty good so far after defol and watering this afternoon.

Cc
 
C

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
Thanks JohnDee.

My newbie brain is looking for ways to mess things up...lol Im like Stimpy wanting to push the "leetle red button!"

I will chill and see where this goes.

Tops of my best plant are now at 20"...gonna have to flip real soon and I think it will be ok based upon how things are looking. Not like its all fixed all the sudden but it may well be getting better.
 
C

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
Thundercat and JohnDee --

Where I am the heat outside my room being pulled in is currently in the low to mid 60s. I have a nice oil heater in the room that does a great job maintaining temps.

Im currently running 79 to 80f and 65 to 70% humidity.

When switching to flower, what temp and humidity do you recommend? Can i shoot for same temp day and night...for example, can I leave the heater set to the same temp, or do I need to lower the temp 5 or 10 degrees?

Ive read that lower temps at night help build flowering hormones...but then read same or higher temps at night reduce stretch...I know this is basic stuff, ive read the guides but your suggestions before for veg seem to be better than what I was doing.

Seems 50% is a golden # for humidity to start...or is the flowering vpd chart a better reference?

Thank you if you have the time and willingness to answer a few more r Qs!

Cc
 
Thundercat

Thundercat

Well-Known Member
If the temps drop at night it’s fine, but personally I wouldn’t worry about actively lowering them. The bigger the temp fluctuations the more the humidity with fluctuate. Most people’s gardens cool down at night just because the lights are off. I’ve never had perfect temp controls to keep mine the same day and night. Even in flower I would keep your day time temps in the low-mid 80s though like we talked about.
 
C

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
TC thanks again. I am going to lst down a few of the taller tops to see if I can go another day or 2 before flip...i want to be around all day the first few days so I can monitor the enviro.

I appreciate the advice on flower temps. Its the time of year...cold up north and going to get way colder soon, thus the need to heat the space. Ive targeted 80 as a good number rhat hopefully wont break the bank in electricity. Spring summer fall will use less energy as at worst i run the exhaust more and will use little or no heat. But a benefit here is I do get to manage temps within a degree or 2 and for a first grow it is woeking well.

Humidity...thoughts? Flower i know lower is needed, but theres what websites say and then what you know...which to me so far has been incredibly helpful. With a good exhaust should i follow a flower vpd chart...should i ramp down...60% week1, 55, 50 etc? I cant believe how much better they all look a week after the advice from you and JohnDee. Leaving out the calmag seems to be helping as you both said it might.

Cheers and Happy Thanksgiving!
 
JohnDee

JohnDee

Well-Known Member
CC,
Especially late in flower...you will need to watch humidity closer. But your numbers sound OK to me. I personally consider VPD a guideline...something to shoot for. But learning to read plants is just as important.

Pleased to hear that the deficiency seems to be improving.

I have been growing landrace sativas lately. They stretch like you wouldn't believe.
If light clearance becomes an issue...I have resorted to just giving them a haircut. It seems extreme, but those top buds will burn if too close. I tried to level them out as much as possible. It's just not always possible to plan perfectly.
JD
 
C

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
Thank you JD!

I did a final defol, inspecting each one. They all improved, none are perfect but i dont need perfect...hopefully they are good enough.

Heres a pic of current. I moved the back middle plant to the front right, it was "demoted" so to speak and i gave the better lighting to a better quality plant. I wont kill off the front right plant as I did sex it female, but i doubt it will keep up with the others, the tops just grow slow and then fan leaves grow fast.

Excited to flip!
 

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JohnDee

JohnDee

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Hi CC,
I move my plants around too. I have enough room to give me flexibility. I had three rooted clones sitting in bloom room to tell me gender of parent. "cloning for sex"

They were so tall...and took a month to confirm gender...so this morning...I up-potted them and am going to flower them out in 2 gal coco bags.

As your plants grow and uses up soil nutrients...things should balance out. Though at some point...the idea of adding K should be considered. Were you planning anything to use as bloom booster?
JD
 
C

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
Landraces rule! And you may not know this as an experienced grower supplying yourself but stores carry those almost never, except for Afghani strains. Im happy to share what I have going but would send you that info through PM.

JD i have no idea what to use for nutes...I do have the Fox Farms Trio, so I have their Grow Big (veg), Big Bloom (supposedly both) and Tiger Bloom (flower). Forgive my explanations, if you know these nutes I just didnt want you to have to look up what they are.

Grow Big = 6 - 4 - 4
Big bloom = 0 - 0.5 - 0.7
Tiger bloom = 2 - 8 - 4
Calmag+ = 2 - 0 - 0. 2% nitro, 3.2% cal, 1.2% mag, 0.1% chelated iron

My plan to start was to not add anything except a weekly Recharge. If I should add any of the bottled nutrients at any point please make any suggestions! I have no problem buying something better/different.

According to the organic soil building thread, I should have enough nutes for a grow easily...but everything sounds great on paper, right? Here is a link to what I built.

forum.grasscity.com

Easy Organic Soil Mix for Beginners

So you want to go organic but don't know where to start? Here's a recipe for an easy, organic, water-only soil that will provide more than enough...
forum.grasscity.com forum.grasscity.com

I followed his recipe to a T...I have plenty of the amendment mix left over and also the epsoma planttone by itself. I topdressed a few of the larger ones a few waterings ago more to fill in some empty space than to fertilize. Maybe 1/2 in or so. I used his more detailed mix with neem, crab, alfalfa, a ton of ewc, azomite and dolomite lime.

As a noob I wont do anything to it until someone like yourself makes a suggestion, I feel I can do more damage than good. If you suggest anything, I take full responsibility for what I do...i.e. it isnt your fault if a suggestion causes things to go south.

Side note, im going to flip and turn off the lights for the first time tomorrow a.m. Any suggestion for a starting humidity target? Maybe 50%? Temps will stay around 79 to 80 as TC suggested at least is my plan.
 
C

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
My home is set to 66 or 67 degrees with humidity currently 40 to 45%...if i dont use a humidifier i wouls guess at those 80 temps i might be in the 30s? So i have a humidifier and was planning to tey to tailor a 45 to 50% range day and night....thoughts?
 
JohnDee

JohnDee

Well-Known Member
ComfortCreator said:
Landraces rule! And you may not know this as an experienced grower supplying yourself but stores carry those almost never, except for Afghani strains. Im happy to share what I have going but would send you that info through PM.

JD i have no idea what to use for nutes...I do have the Fox Farms Trio, so I have their Grow Big (veg), Big Bloom (supposedly both) and Tiger Bloom (flower). Forgive my explanations, if you know these nutes I just didnt want you to have to look up what they are.

Grow Big = 6 - 4 - 4
Big bloom = 0 - 0.5 - 0.7
Tiger bloom = 2 - 8 - 4
Calmag+ = 2 - 0 - 0. 2% nitro, 3.2% cal, 1.2% mag, 0.1% chelated iron

My plan to start was to not add anything except a weekly Recharge. If I should add any of the bottled nutrients at any point please make any suggestions! I have no problem buying something better/different.

According to the organic soil building thread, I should have enough nutes for a grow easily...but everything sounds great on paper, right? Here is a link to what I built.

forum.grasscity.com

Easy Organic Soil Mix for Beginners

So you want to go organic but don't know where to start? Here's a recipe for an easy, organic, water-only soil that will provide more than enough...
forum.grasscity.com forum.grasscity.com

I followed his recipe to a T...I have plenty of the amendment mix left over and also the epsoma planttone by itself. I topdressed a few of the larger ones a few waterings ago more to fill in some empty space than to fertilize. Maybe 1/2 in or so. I used his more detailed mix with neem, crab, alfalfa, a ton of ewc, azomite and dolomite lime.

As a noob I wont do anything to it until someone like yourself makes a suggestion, I feel I can do more damage than good. If you suggest anything, I take full responsibility for what I do...i.e. it isnt your fault if a suggestion causes things to go south.

Side note, im going to flip and turn off the lights for the first time tomorrow a.m. Any suggestion for a starting humidity target? Maybe 50%? Temps will stay around 79 to 80 as TC suggested at least is my plan.
Click to expand...
CC,
50% would be good...but it might be hard to maintain at nearly 80. See how it goes. Many times, the plant transpiration takes care of the humidity aspect.

You should be learning...as this process develops. You are the gardener and we are the helpers. So try and understand the "why" to any suggestions. Ask questions as needed.

I'll review your nute data and get back to you. The recharge is microbial...right? So ya, continue that.
JD
 
C

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
JohnDee said:
CC,
50% would be good...but it might be hard to maintain at nearly 80. See how it goes. Many times, the plant transpiration takes care of the humidity aspect.

You should be learning...as this process develops. You are the gardener and we are the helpers. So try and understand the "why" to any suggestions. Ask questions as needed.

I'll review your nute data and get back to you. The recharge is microbial...right? So ya, continue that.
JD
Click to expand...
Recharge is microbial, mycorrhizae, kelp, humic and fulvic acid, molasses and aminos.
 
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