Manning found not guilty of aiding the enemy, guilty of espionage

Padawanbater2 said:
How are they not similar, both Manning and Snowden are government whistleblowers, both went to Wikileaks and both are facing criminal charges because of it

Manning exposed war crimes committed by the United States

How was he "aiding the enemy" and how could you possibly link the information he leaked to American deaths?



What is the difference between Manning and Snowden to you? You seem to oppose what Manning did but support what Snowden did, that seems inconsistent.
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I tried my best to explain it. War crimes are not for Manning to say. Espionage. I never said American deaths, so lay off the Sophistry.

Taking NAS laptops to China and Russia. Espionage.

They are not different as people. Both were doing the same thing in much the same way.

They are different as one was on the battlefield making judgment calls, above his pay grade with no plan, and not going to the JAG or internal affairs or a number of ways to stay within the Oaths.

They are different in that one had a plan and got out.

And they are different in that Manning's shit was just stupid but Sowdens shit is BIG.

But, you never said. What are these boo hoo war crimes exposed by Manning. And so what?

What was exposed by Snowden is BIG. Do you think I don't support beatings for both? Do you think I take sides or care about this individuals, at all?

It is what it is, and seems to be going downhill, but not fast.
 
Doer said:
I tried my best to explain it. War crimes are not for Manning to say. Espionage. I never said American deaths, so lay off the Sophistry.

Taking NAS laptops to China and Russia. Espionage.
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Do you believe that because something unethical is not illegal, it's not necessarily wrong?

Doer said:
They are not different as people. Both were doing the same thing in much the same way.

They are different as one was on the battlefield making judgment calls, above his pay grade with no plan, and not going to the JAG or internal affairs or a number of ways to stay within the Oaths.

They are different in that one had a plan and got out.

And they are different in that Manning's shit was just stupid but Sowdens shit is BIG.
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What would you have done if you were Manning?

Doer said:
But, you never said. What are these boo hoo war crimes exposed by Manning. And so what?
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Watch the video posted in the OP, an American Apache attack chopper targeting journalists and civilians.


"The "Collateral Murder" video depicts a US Apache attack helicopter killing 12 civilians and wounding two children on the ground in Baghdad in 2007. The helicopter then fired on and killed the people trying to rescue the wounded. Finally, a US tank drove over one of the bodies, cutting the man in half. These acts constitute three separate war crimes.

Manning fulfilled his legal duty to report war crimes. He complied with his legal duty to obey lawful orders but also his legal duty to disobey unlawful orders.

Section 499 of the Army Field Manual states, "Every violation of the law of war is a war crime." The law of war is contained in the Geneva Conventions.

Article 85 of the First Protocol to the Geneva Conventions describes making the civilian population or individual civilians the object of attack as a grave breach. The firing on and killing of civilians shown in the "Collateral Murder" video violated this provision of Geneva.

Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions requires that the wounded be collected and cared for. Article 17 of the First Protocol states that the civilian population "shall be permitted, even on their own initiative, to collect and care for the wounded." That article also says, "No one shall be harmed . . . for such humanitarian acts." The firing on rescuers portrayed in the "Collateral Murder" video violates these provisions of Geneva.

Finally, Section 27-10 of the Army Field Manual states that "maltreatment of dead bodies" is a war crime. When the Army jeep drove over the dead body, it violated this provision."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marjorie-cohn/bradley-mannings-legal-du_b_3390416.html


"..if the American public, had access to the information...this could spark a domestic debate on the role of the military and our foreign policy in general." -Manning
 
I read it. But, I laughed.

I don't believe in morals, ethics, right or wrong, apply here. Convicted. As I have said many times I observe the Real.

Giving anything to wikileaks instead of your US Senator and Congress-person is wrong, if anything is. Inform the Chief Justices with a Brief.

Now he will rot and people in America scorn him for being stupid and getting caught as a dumbass. Simple.

Not right or wrong, just a stupid waste. And killing journalists and civilians.....are you mad? Did you just fall off a turnip truck? It is War. No right or wrong, just war. All that legal nanzi-panzy you quote, get him anywhere?

So what did his actions buy? Nothing. Well you are shocked. But, Obama was on a pull out, time table. Who did he think would be tried for war crimes besides himself? What a fuck up.
 
Can you string sentences together a little more coherently, your posts read as if you're speaking in bullet statements

Also, committing blatant war crimes is grounds for legal action, so whether someone believes it's right or wrong is irrelevant, it's illegal. The presence of war doesn't dismiss contractual legal obligations and neither does it relinquish responsibility when crimes are committed, that's absurd and that's why we have international courts.

Go tell your congressperson? The fuck would that do besides let the people you have dirt on know that you have dirt on them? Had Manning done that I guarantee you none of us would even be talking about this because none of us would have ever heard about it and Manning would be locked away exactly the same as he is now. The protocols currently in place do nothing to protect the whistleblower. Charging these people with something as serious as espionage will only serve to have future whistleblowers with sensitive information keep their mouths shut out of fear of being prosecuted.
 
Doer said:
War crimes are for the Losers. Simple as that. Manning had no ability, no authority, or any sense, apparently, to understand that. He lost when he got caught. He is in fact, a War Criminal, convicted.

I just saw, Hanoi Hilton again. Air Pirates. Not subject to the Conventions. Brutalized and Paraded.

War Criminals in fact. They broke their little ship.
(Picard Reference....anyone?)
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images


Doer said:
Taking NAS laptops to China and Russia. Espionage.
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Great squirming Scott. Not the National Academy of Sciences??? cn
 
Doer said:
I don't believe these two case are similar.

What did Manning disclose that was so earth shattering to you, Mr. John Q. Public? I find nothing to horrify me. But, it was motives, and methods, and he was too careful to leave proof he was in fact Aiding the Enemy. What he revealed has lead to deaths, but Aiding is a far bar to prove it.

So, Espionage. The beatings will continue.

You seem mixed up, like so many. There are ways to do whistle blowing, if you are not a glory hound dip-shit.

Deep Throat, perhaps never came forward. And that reveal was bigger than all cattle. :)

So, mixed up, like Manning, if you say so, but I think Manning was lucky with no proof of Aid.
--------------------------------
Snowden is different. And if oil prices were not $107 Spot, he would be coming back.

I still have room in my heart that the Fundamental Change is exposing this violation of the 4th A and all the other abuses, primarily. They can't be changed unless exposed. They are surely collecting all voice. And how long they keep that....who knows? Maybe they only keep a few juicy words to get your family with later if you come under scrutiny.

It's not like they can't and it is not like they wouldn't.....so they do. They just began collecting and storing passwords. Began? Oh, no. They got caught continuing.

Mass Voice collection and storage alone is too big to even contemplate. The Matrix is the end state. We won't know what to believe. Hey this has been going on and I don't know what to believe, do you?

But, again, Snowden cleared datum and took laptops. However, he I can give the PASS. they can possibly get to him in Russia if the collect and manipulate all VOICE. This is just too big. So BIG, in fact, no Sci-fi was written about that. To me, having read it all, BIG. No one thought they would or could, etc. Byond even me. So, I thank Snowden for that.

Most Americans still think we are only collecting the metadata. Putin knows first hand we are not. We are collecting all VOICE. His main aid was recorded talking to Obama.

Did this Domestic Spying aid the Obama re-election along with the IRS? This is very bad. Feel me? Snowden days may still be numbered and I don't know what else he had on those laptops
or how many will die. But, I thank he for opening my eyes. How's that?
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No one will die, he had no access to all source data. Nothing he has leaked has led to the deaths of Americans. Either of them. If fatalities had occurred, it would be plastered on the TV, Papers, Online until it's drilled into us - we both know that would be a win for obamas war on whistleblowers.

What hasn't been mentioned by anyone as yet is the snowden's involvement with the Special Collection Service (SCS) a unit dubbed "F6". While everyone is focusing on PRISM which is nothing but the public name, no one is mentioning "BOUNDLESSINFORMANT".
 
echelon1k1 said:
No one will die, he had no access to all source data. Nothing he has leaked has led to the deaths of Americans. Either of them. If fatalities had occurred, it would be plastered on the TV, Papers, Online until it's drilled into us - we both know that would be a win for obamas war on whistleblowers.

What hasn't been mentioned by anyone as yet is the snowden's involvement with the Special Collection Service (SCS) a unit dubbed "F6". While everyone is focusing on PRISM which is nothing but the public name, no one is mentioning "BOUNDLESSINFORMANT".
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Well.....see.....Mommie....that's right. Nothing he has leaked has led to the deaths of Americans.

And is that all the world cares about? That is even all Americans care about. I never once said Americans. I am referring to assets in wartime, in theater summary executed. You won't know, and NumbNuts didn't know either. That is the problem with Manning. STUPID. No body here respects Stupid, unless possessing a big Weiner. Now if Manning had that he could have played the Weiner card in Chambers....no not Marylin. :)

I and many, respect the hell out of Snowden. Tricky and smart and he got out. A folk hero, not a stupid gay boy throwing his like into a morality play above his grade. He could not handle the truth, unlike Snowden.


Is that the program that collects all voice, or what is it for? BOUNLESSINFORMANT.
 
I don't understand your gripe..

You support Snowden because he was able to elude the authorities, but oppose Manning because he got caught?
 
Dude. You are gripping. King Gripalot.

I have no beef with anything.

It is what it is. Now if you were attempting to spoof me, at my door in the middle of the night, then I will have an opinion about your safety.

The rest we watch. The Rest we can do nothing.

We can however stress ourselves in ways we cannot imagine if we try to have an opinion and NEED to take a side on everything. Tyranny of Opinion.

I DO NOT TAKE SIDES. I HAVE NO GRIPS TO SHARE HERE.

I'm a profession planner, my job is the 6 month defense and the 2 year long con.

Snowden is a true American. Manning is a punk.

They both broke faith and both should be shot, but Snowden can have my sister before hand.

Clear now?
 
Doer said:
Well.....see.....Mommie....that's right. Nothing he has leaked has led to the deaths of Americans.

And is that all the world cares about? That is even all Americans care about. I never once said Americans. I am referring to assets in wartime, in theater summary executed. You won't know, and NumbNuts didn't know either. That is the problem with Manning. STUPID. No body here respects Stupid, unless possessing a big Weiner. Now if Manning had that he could have played the Weiner card in Chambers....no not Marylin. :)

I and many, respect the hell out of Snowden. Tricky and smart and he got out. A folk hero, not a stupid gay boy throwing his like into a morality play above his grade. He could not handle the truth, unlike Snowden.


Is that the program that collects all voice, or what is it for? BOUNLESSINFORMANT.
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The world cares about it because the US' drone war is a joke and now you employ whats called "signature strikes"... Which is nothing more than profiling or a shot in the dark. Lets looks at this in a measured fashion. They couldn't prove aiding the enemy, the irony is if they headed up to the white house, you could've made it stick to everyone therein... While the US racks up the body count, some of us are worried about the long term affect this will have... Oh like say more than half Afghanistans populace is under the age of 18. When was the last time we saw numbers like that?

Signature strikes are a significant part of America’s counter-terrorism strategy, but they are not in and of themselves sustainable or even needed as currently used. The targets are selected for killing based largely on network analysis. Using various means, the United States government looks at who is talking to who, who they are meeting with, and generally, whether or not their actions mimic those of a terrorist. If so, they can be targeted for a drone strike. Signature strikes do not require the CIA to even know the name of the person they are assassinating, they simply fire on an electronic signature that looks like that of a terrorist.
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You know you got pillow biters in SOF now right? just saying...
 
echelon1k1 said:
The world cares about it because the US' drone war is a joke and now you employ whats called "signature strikes"... Which is nothing more than profiling or a shot in the dark. Lets looks at this in a measured fashion. They couldn't prove aiding the enemy, the irony is if they headed up to the white house, you could've made it stick to everyone therein... While the US racks up the body count, some of us are worried about the long term affect this will have... Oh like say more than half Afghanistans populace is under the age of 18. When was the last time we saw numbers like that?



You know you got pillow biters in SOF now right? just saying...
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I get it. What you say rings turn. It was......Cambodia.

For signature strikes, never heard of it. That means nothing, of course. So thanks for the key words.

Say, man. Is there something we are suppose to do? It is coming to light and we are at war. (not with each other, of course.)

I have a feeling there is more about you, so don't tell me. It is great to know these bits you shake out sometimes...the details... the details.

If we can smell a tango, is that a good thing? Yes. If we just pretend? Bad. I get it.

As far as State infiltrated, and the Jihad Candidate as Pres? Yes and Yes. What to do but go to the range?

WE won't stand by. If this cracks open you see a shift of that voter turn out. Some slink off and will never, ever vote for the Opposition of their family vote, so they don't vote. There, see, that is where self rule is very powerful. Don't even vote. Give up. Nolo contendre. Save face as it is all faceless voting and faceless not voting.

And we've had PILLOWBITER before. I called then the Clinton Colonels. Specifically, I mean the Osprey Program.

The Sneaky Pete will practice fragging if it get so bad. So. Not worried and nothing to do.

But, fine connections there. We had all this before, but now the suicide count exceeds the KIA.

Remember we are no ones friend and fickly dangerous, unpredictable because we will elect any fool that can goof his way into C & C.

Just is. But, there is a cold plan at work and if it is to Cambod the Stans, it may be working and it may doom us all. Just saying....I see you. It is even worse, I imagine, than that, troop. War.
 
Padawanbater2 said:
That's fair for exposing war crimes?
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Sorry if I come across the wrong way, but enough chit chat with doer. He's like a local idiot; No offence doer. !!

The corrupt people manipulating the USA need to be stopped, and pronto. for gods sakes, this earth doesn't need drones designed to kill people!!!!! :!: Right?
 
Padawanbater2 said:
Good point..
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Do you know what is the most fucked up thing? the fact that war even has a law.

Why does a fucking war have laws to govern the actions of the wars "participants"? Its flipping childish and? so so twistedly moronic.
TO say for example that North Korea is not allowed to create its own nuclear weapons, while others have their own nukes.

Now of course nukes are bad, but that isn't the point here. the point is the way that people conduct them selves, and war is imo a big no no, end of story.
If I was a god and immortal (unkillable) I would take the whole situation into my own hands, but since I'm just mortal, well then? you know.
 
There is an entire underbelly of WAR, that you are ignoring.

If there are any rules of war, certainly the spies broke them. One is now convicted of breaking the rules of war.

Any rules are up to the rule makers to say who broke what and when, in war.

Anyone is at peril in self rule. Ya play ya card, ya take ya changes.

Responsibility for self is real.
 
Doer said:
I get it. What you say rings turn. It was......Cambodia.

For signature strikes, never heard of it. That means nothing, of course. So thanks for the key words.

Say, man. Is there something we are suppose to do? It is coming to light and we are at war. (not with each other, of course.)

I have a feeling there is more about you, so don't tell me. It is great to know these bits you shake out sometimes...the details... the details.

If we can smell a tango, is that a good thing? Yes. If we just pretend? Bad. I get it.

As far as State infiltrated, and the Jihad Candidate as Pres? Yes and Yes. What to do but go to the range?

WE won't stand by. If this cracks open you see a shift of that voter turn out. Some slink off and will never, ever vote for the Opposition of their family vote, so they don't vote. There, see, that is where self rule is very powerful. Don't even vote. Give up. Nolo contendre. Save face as it is all faceless voting and faceless not voting.

And we've had PILLOWBITER before. I called then the Clinton Colonels. Specifically, I mean the Osprey Program.

The Sneaky Pete will practice fragging if it get so bad. So. Not worried and nothing to do.

But, fine connections there. We had all this before, but now the suicide count exceeds the KIA.

Remember we are no ones friend and fickly dangerous, unpredictable because we will elect any fool that can goof his way into C & C.

Just is. But, there is a cold plan at work and if it is to Cambod the Stans, it may be working and it may doom us all. Just saying....I see you. It is even worse, I imagine, than that, troop. War.
Click to expand...

I see what youre saying about the parallels between Astan and Cbodia. Right now it might only be in its infancy, but after we leave.... what then?

My point regarding Afghanistan's population is the last time we saw this was after the Russians left. More than half the populace under the age of 18 most without a shred of education and I know we both do not consider "madrasas" to be educational institutions, far from it. These kids families are dead, they're poor, uneducated, vulnerable and very easily influenced and manipulated.

These jihadist cocksuckers take advantage of that because god forbid they send their owns kids to commit suicide... No shit D, they even bribe these kids with money, $40 - 60 US, saying they can collect it after they blow themselves up... I've seen actual footage of this. They load 'em up with C4/nails etc and send 'em into crowded markets, schools, villages and checkpoints. This is happening right now. It will only get worse in the future.

What i'm worried about is the threat lying low in Pakistan... waiting and the current on-goings in Syria/Libya. Now if assad do is able to turn away the jihadist forces, where do they go? And the only logical answer for me is wait it out until the allies leave and reclaim Kabul.

Pakistan is all for that shit, they can control the Haqqanis/taliban via the ISI and see Af as paramount to their security against India.

I've said it before and ill say it again, we should be in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

As for the voice intercepts, yes it's done in real time under a meta-database called "DAYTONA". Capability within X-KEYSCORE (program) is called PINWALE, NUCLEON.

OCEANARIUM (five eyes) has replaced the name ECHELON and by using what's called SIGINT Exchange Designators they can pull phone calls in from anywhere in the world, process it, index it, store it for analysis.
 
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