Meditation...

(i post to concentrate on nothing)

babygro said:

In my opinion, that is not meditation.

Meditation is allowing the mind to wander wherever it wants to go until it naturally finds a 'stillness' and 'quietness' and 'higher level of consiousness' that is both active and aware of what's going on around you but still 'quiet' at the same time...

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id like to point out that "meditation", like all words, has different meanings. not like it has multiple definitions, but in the way that there isnt a real truth to its meaning. we try to reach a unanimously 'correct' understanding of terms, but honestly its impossible. well maybe not impossible, but we def dont have it right now.

if meditation was only done by one guy, then we could agree on what it is and how to do it.

Anyway

when i said concentrate on nothing, i didnt mean that i zone out and do my best to not respond to my surroundings. the concentrating on nothing is done almost like a sort of training to understand a feeling. i find that i am often too absorbed in my inner monologue to view anything, including myself, without bias. the concentrating on nothing is my way to get my mind to shut up.

instead of watching the mind and waiting for it to reach a certain point, i started by giving it a push in the direction i wanted. now that i am familiar with the feeling of nothingness, i can actually watch my mind without bias. i start with a clean slate.

Ganja, if it hasnt been obvious already, i dont follow a traditional mediation method, and i havent been doing this very long. if u dig anything im saying, cool, but i have to admit that the other guys may know what theyre talking about more than i do.

UserFriendly said:

you guys ever see the science experiment where you put a candle at the bottom of a long tube, seal it up and watch it die out because it uses up all the oxygen around it? but, if you run a partition down the length of the tube it burns on indefinitely. the convection causes fresh air to be pulled down one side, and exhausted out the other. think of the flame as yourself, the tube as the fall/evolution, and the space outside the tube as the source/god. 1-the candle, like yourselves, needs duality to exist.
enlightenment doesn't exist for you. who would be there to enjoy it? 2-all you do when you sit is deny your self. just accept the fact that you are a flesh and bone machine programmed to survive. why retard yourself working towards death when you know it is coming anyway?
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1-are u trying to compare meditation to a coping mechanism?

2-funny u say that, because id say that ur denying urself because i find that meditating is the only true way to know what u are. what are u? u cant rely on others opinions, because to view their opinions, u rely on ur opinions of them. so u must define urself. everything u know is in ur head, and the only thing u can compare it all to is nothing. nothingness and wholeness are one in the same. when i 'meditate' i compare my life to death

now, if ur not interested in what u are, cool. maybe ur curiosity doesnt involve any of this. but to say that we are denying ourselves, u cant be farther from the truth.

i have news for ya man, nothing matters. and the fact that u are any different than folks that meditate is bs. control is an illusion, doing/living as an action is meaningless. u say we are machines programmed to survive, who programmed us? we have. we do. and everybody is different, we all dont live to survive. survival is just a means to experience for most folks. and saying that eating, shitting, and fucking is the meaning to life is simply a shallow, over-generalized view of animal nature; thats like saying that filling ur gas tank is the point to driving.

most ppl know that someday they will die. if u are too afraid to try to experience a little of it before it happens, thats ur own deal. every near-death mindset ive ever had has been beneficial to me afterwards, it allows u to appreciate life in a way that would be impossible otherwise. and the more i get used to the feeling of death, the more comfortable i am with it. honestly, if somebody were to put a gun to my throat today and say that they were gonna pull the trigger my mind wouldnt skip a beat.

so heres my deal with meditation. when considering the nature of control, ignorance can be bliss. we dont have any true control over what we are doing, and most folks will deny this fact till the cows come home. meditation gives me more control over my life, and that comforts me and allows me to life a more productive life. people that still chase after the idea of personal choice may find meditation ridiculous and i guess theyre better off in a way, because they have something that ill never have again.

ramble

blah blah blah

ramble

Preo....you said some good stuff, loved reading what you have to say, as well as many others in this thread. I think some people are overthinking, meditation is a personal thing, and it's merely a way of reflecting.....on whatever you choose to, and at whatever level you choose to do it.
After reading your post, I was left with the feeling of how wise you are.

UserFriendly dude, your pretty hip man, not sure if I agree with every word you said, but that dosent matter, I loved what you had to say though, pretty deep.
Peace

UserFriendly said:

...why retard yourself working towards death when you know it is coming anyway?
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i might have not understood what u meant by this the first time around. i will die some day so maybe i should just chill out and see what its like when it happens...

with meditation tho, i find that the quality of my life is positively effected. so while i take time from my life to reflect, it isnt wasted. but still, i think from now on i will only meditate (im still not sure if what i do applies to this term) when i got down time. no sense in possibly sacrificing profound moments in hopes of enjoying the normal stuff more.

UserFriendly said:

you guys ever see the science experiment where you put a candle at the bottom of a long tube, seal it up and watch it die out because it uses up all the oxygen around it? but, if you run a partition down the length of the tube it burns on indefinitely. the convection causes fresh air to be pulled down one side, and exhausted out the other. think of the flame as yourself, the tube as the fall/evolution, and the space outside the tube as the source/god. the candle, like yourselves, needs duality to exist.
enlightenment doesn't exist for you. who would be there to enjoy it? all you do when you sit is deny your self. just accept the fact that you are a flesh and bone machine programmed to survive. why retard yourself working towards death when you know it is coming anyway?
</IMG>

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I really like the comparison.. very clean... and visual..
Yes duality is part of existence... awareness of duality is part of conscious evolution...


What is death?
the opposite of death is birth

What is life?
Life IS

To realize that when ONE dies ONE still has LIFE is the first step into the UNKNOWN..

"YOU" can die NOW... there is no need to wait until "it happens"

a wise woman once said
"YOU DON'T even KNOW the meaning of the word death.. don't pretend that you do"

ahhahahahahah LOL

when your parents die.. you will experience a death.. a death of your PERSONA.. this is why loosing THINGs hurts so bad.. it is death of ONEs own IDENTITY....

Anything that starts with I AM.... is part of this fictitous identity...


to be continued..

iloveyou

knowm, what do u mean by dying now? as in murder or suicide, or are u speaking of meditation?

as for life. life IS, but scientist have discovered that our physical bodies, the atoms we are composed of, disappear half the time. like they can see them one moment, but they go somewhere else half the time. ('What the &#37;&!$ do We Know'- movie. few yrs old, im not sure on how reputable it is nowadays) so as far as i can figure, life IS as much as it ISNT

but i think the natural duality that ppl see in life/reality/the universe is just a product of the mind. sure it exists, but i dont think its anymore important than the 23 enigma. with the exception of one thought:

duality to me represents perception. the universe is divided into two with the introduction of perception

DEATH of identity..

suicide is a reaction

I am POINTing at a death that comes from WATCHing the mind... eventually the thoughts will DIE... when there are NO thoughts left... "you" are dead..

"you don't know what dead means"


this requires immovable focus and strength to NOT react and to wacth the MIND with unwavering attention...

The catalyst for such a MISSION is often something people called "COMPLETE surrender"

the death of ones SELF can be irrelevant, pointless, or even impossible for somebody who has lived most of their life with unwavering curiosity and independence. those with rational views of the world around them will see quite vividly that the line that separates them from whats not them is rather shaky. from a young age, i have refused to cultivate a personality that assumes an underlying meaning to life. this has made it very easy to disacknowledge the legitimacy of most cultural guidelines, the most prevalent one most being that there actually is a personal SELF for me to have.

so i guess what im getting at is that the death of ones SELF that is obtainable thru the watching of the mind isnt necessarily a profound experience for some ppl. i see now exactly where my brand of meditation differs from others. meditation to me does not offer enlightenment, it offers control.

Gimme a month, then I'll be able to keep up with yall As far as this thread goes, keep it going please! This is fantastic!

preoQpydDlusion said:

it offers control.

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It allows ACTION rather than reaction.. I am understanding you correctly?

Jordy Villain said:

I'm Sufi and pir says that marijuana hinders meditation and the path overall because it makes you too involved in self. The point of meditation in sufism is to lose self on the path to finding Him, therefore finding your real self. There are no restrictions in sufism though, so i still smoke. I think the calming aspect helps you get started with meditation but is it you or the weed that is making you centered?

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correct..

Garden Knowm said:

It allows ACTION rather than reaction.. I am understanding you correctly?

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definitely

knowm i remember a while back that u talked about a lesson/realization in enlightenment. u said that an awakened individual can explain a particular realization by pointing, and that had me thinking.

when u look at somebody, generally u look them in the eye. literally the eyeball, and often times u can see a reflection of urself in them. im doubtful that this is what u were referring to, but it seems kinda deep. almost mindblowing, when u look at others its usually an automatic response to compare them to urself and hold that image (not necessarily a visual one) in ur head. and in a simple, literal way when u talk to somebody face to face u are actually looking at urself in the reflection of their eyes (even tho u may not notice it right away). ur seeing urself thru them. and on top of that, being aware of this can even be considered a metaphor for living a life based on ur projected belief of other ppls subjectivity towards u.

i hope im getting my throughts across well enough, its been a while since i had a good smoke...

Meditation means to completely detach yourself from this world (meaning the objective world, your surroundings) and to become aware of your true self...Who, What, When, Where, Why You are who you are.....

Sanifsan said:

Meditation means to completely detach yourself from this world (meaning the objective world, your surroundings) and to become aware of your true self...Who, What, When, Where, Why You are who you are.....

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isnt the who what when, etc all products of the objective world?

preoQpydDlusion said:

isnt the who what when, etc all products of the objective world?

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It's all relative, for example you could be in your house or in boston or in massachusets or in america or on earth or in a galaxy in the universe...or if you look at it in the spritutal way...you can try and see where you spirit is in terms of it being closer or farther away from where you want it to be in your spirtual jurney...

Have you guys tried Grounding and Centering.
Close your eyes.
Imagine you are a plant or a tree.
Invision roots comming out of your feet or rump if sitting.
Imagine the roots going deeper and deeper.
Imagine your self sprouting up like a plant or tree.
Imagine yourself growing into a huge bush or tree.'
Imagine the nutients and earth energy comming up from the ground and being channeled thru your body out the top of your head.
Imagine your leaves are blowing in the wind.
Finish with opening eyes and placing both palms on the ground to release excess energy.
Supposedly if you do not release excess energy you will get a headache.
Once you have tried this a few times you will start to notice things differently.
This is an ancient Celtic (druid) type of meditation.
I have been doing it for about 2 yrs and it really helps when stressed or not feeling well.
Peace and plant some seeds.

Sanifsan said:

It's all relative, for example you could be in your house or in boston or in massachusets or in america or on earth or in a galaxy in the universe...or if you look at it in the spritutal way...you can try and see where you spirit is in terms of it being closer or farther away from where you want it to be in your spirtual jurney...

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See I don't know about a spiritual journey, atleast not until I die, but I just want clearer perception. I want to be able to take things in, to see things, hear things, and I don't mean things that aren't there, I mean the things you wouldn't normally hear unless you were high or something lol. Cuz you know weed heightens your senses, and back in the day numerous artists were notorious for putting out records with hidden sounds on some sort of supersonic frequency that you could only hear when you're high. I dunno, everything's just kinda felt really cloudy to me my whole life...

ur cloudiness may be caused by two different things. centering urself thru meditation can help u with heightening ur senses to a degree, but that may not be what ur really searching for.

is it that u want to be able to hear real well or u want to know what is going on around u better? ur perception of the world around u doesnt rely only on ur physical senses. it relies on ur ability to understand these senses, it relies on what meaning u give these messages.

keep in mind all things are connected, you wont be able to become a strong individual if u train in only one area. i suggest u absorb alot of information to get a broader view of ur options to view ur life. religion, philosophy, theology- dont judge any of it while ur learning, just get an understanding of the view. after u feel comfortable with how u interpret the world (effectively changing the world around u) u can now easily change urself.

"See I don't know about a spiritual journey, atleast not until I die"
this is what Knowm has been talking about. u must let urself die to achieve deep spirituality and understanding. i believe his wording has been confusing regarding a particular phrase:

"YOU are not ur THOUGHTS"
but this statement is not compatible with the idea of killing ONE's identity.
most everything u are, or what u think ur are, is based on now-obsolete labels u have givin urself in the past. labels that may have served a purpose at the time, now only exist as mental baggage, holding u back from reaching ur full potential. once u are able to disconnect from ur precious delusions (i say precious because this process can be hard for some ppl and sadly enough, impossible for others), u can rebuild ur understanding of the world around u. allowing ur thoughts to stop and accepting that ur preconceived views of the past, present, and future should hold no bounds on ur present actions, will effectively flush out alot of the wasted part of ur personality. even ur thoughts, the active inner-monologue that controls much of ur rationality, is not necessarily true to what u actually are.

i feel like im rambling, so ill rap it up. Easter is coming up, what better of a day could u pick to reincarnate urself? i suggest u create a new world for urself (by making sure u have a philosophical mindset that suits who u want to be) over the next few days. Sat night u should make urself comfortable, get urself some fruit and clean water so u dont end up fasting, (fruit and water are great for the body. pineapple is great, so sugary. eat enough natural sugar and ull be high on life) and meditate for a few hours. watch ur mind till u feel the change. it will be noticeable, ur thoughts will stop. leave ur current identity in the past, and cultivate ur new life.

after my re-awakening, i had a confusing period where i didnt know how to react with my surroundings, because i was so used to judging everything around me before i acted. i wish i had a solid philosophical base to work from at that time, it would have saved me a bit of grief.

down for some reading? its about understanding, not memorizing, and if u have any questions about these ideas, ask away. ive personally enjoyed these views, maybe u will to. hopefully some of the other guys will offer some links to what theyve read about

Theism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Pantheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Agnosticism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Existentialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
LaVeyan Satanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia