MY True HP Aero Plug&Play Pods

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sherriberry

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i started a thread a while back to ask this... but no one really chimed in...

during late bloom... uv makes more crystals.

i was thinknig instead of getting a huge high powered uv bulb...

getting just a couple 10,000 color temp t5 sanitation medical uv bulbs and putting them in a bloom room.

What do you guys think about this idea?
 

tree farmer

Well-Known Member
also, the reason i cant use the float sensor on the pump is because i cant figure out a way to "paperweight" it to the bottom of the tub... if you guys can think of something heavy that doenst hurt the nute water, AND that i could mount a clip so that i can attach the clip to the cord the ball is attached to.
when i need to hold something down in the res i use a piece of PVC pipe and fill it with lead fish wieghts and then cap each end with a cap and PVC cement it. have an assortment always laying around. nothing comes in contact with the solution just the PVC if you glue the caps properly.very quick and easy to make. then i just zip tie whatever i want to hold down to the PVC and drop in res. done it for all sorts of things over the years that would float up or move around. mostly though for pump intakes with stiff tubes in shallow res.

i have some of those ball float sensors for sump pumps and they work on line voltage and are a bitch to try and get set to work at the right hieght. i recently tried one in a five gallon pail to pump my DTW up and just gave up and put it on a timer instead.
 
Hi ALL. This is like a little community, love it.

You can order the pump without a pressure cutoff. Provides 90 PSI. You've talked about relays. There are timed relays, SCRs, etc. I've always used OPTO 22 SCRs. Useful for controlling an inductive load, like a motor. Zero crossing switching, so you're not slamming the motor. I use a cheap, old laptop (with custom software) for state control.

Sherri, I would pass on the UV. Perhaps it's useful, but, a MH flooding the blue/green regions seems to work cheaper.

TF, I know your interest in foliar feeding. A misting aero system could be easily be converted to foliar feeding. Some flapper valves and a small air fan would push the mist into the foliage. This is a direct method of feeding the leaves water and nutes. {Roots, SHMOOTS, we don't need no stinking roots}

FWIW, after some research, I've found 40Khz is appropriate to generate a ~50 micron mist from ultrasonic transducers. Most (ALL) nebulizers use a 1.5-2.6 Mhz transducer generating ~1-5 micron droplets (Much to small for adequate feeding). Anyway, 40KHz transducers are used for cleaning applications. Anyhow, so much to do and so little time.

Thanks all, for your input. We'll get this pat soon.
 

fatman7574

New Member
when i need to hold something down in the res i use a piece of PVC pipe and fill it with lead fish wieghts and then cap each end with a cap and PVC cement it. have an assortment always laying around. nothing comes in contact with the solution just the PVC if you glue the caps properly.very quick and easy to make. then i just zip tie whatever i want to hold down to the PVC and drop in res. done it for all sorts of things over the years that would float up or move around. mostly though for pump intakes with stiff tubes in shallow res.

i have some of those ball float sensors for sump pumps and they work on line voltage and are a bitch to try and get set to work at the right hieght. i recently tried one in a five gallon pail to pump my DTW up and just gave up and put it on a timer instead.
Have you ever tried a conductivity based relay such as the Crouzet Pump Up Relay. http://cgi.ebay.com/Crouzet-Syrelec-PNRT-110A-Relay-Control-Pump-Up-New_W0QQitemZ300193352079QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item45e4eb098f

Use the relay with some titanium bicycle spokes as a replacement for floats and a relay. As long as you have some salts for conductivity they work great, Won't work on pure RO water however. They have both Pump Up and Pump Down relays.

Crouzet Site Info on relays:
http://www.crouzet-usa.com/catalog/_nr.shtml

I am old school. I get all my relays for bases such as Octal bases. I hate soldering and soldering relays. I like to just plug into wire terminal bases. It is not like it is a difference between a 200 pound tube type TV or a 75 pound circuit board TV. I would rather just use a little more space and weight and save the soldering and unsoldering by using wire terminal bases.
 

sherriberry

New Member
Have you ever tried a conductivity based relay such as the Crouzet Pump Up Relay. http://cgi.ebay.com/Crouzet-Syrelec-PNRT-110A-Relay-Control-Pump-Up-New_W0QQitemZ300193352079QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item45e4eb098f

Use the relay with some titanium bicycle spokes as a replacement for floats and a relay. As long as you have some salts for conductivity they work great, Won't work on pure RO water however. They have both Pump Up and Pump Down relays.

Crouzet Site Info on relays:
http://www.crouzet-usa.com/catalog/_nr.shtml

I am old school. I get all my relays for bases such as Octal bases. I hate soldering and soldering relays. I like to just plug into wire terminal bases. It is not like it is a difference between a 200 pound tube type TV or a 75 pound circuit board TV. I would rather just use a little more space and weight and save the soldering and unsoldering by using wire terminal bases.
thanks fatman for chiming in on everything AFTER i buy all this stuff and wait over a week for it all to ship in.

maybe ill get to try this idea on my NEXT setup :)

seriously tho, i would like to know how all this stuff works, so more details on an exact shopping list, and how it all configures together would be great.
 

sherriberry

New Member
gray roanek...

2x 54 watt 4 ft bulb... im not sure i follow you?

how is a mh cheaper or producing as much uv? its not.

it uses more power 400 or more watts, and it requires the purchase of another ballast.. and creates heat.

I like your other ideas about misters tho...

would be interested to see a link on the exact ones you are talking about
 

Atomizer

Well-Known Member
Hi ALL. This is like a little community, love it.

You can order the pump without a pressure cutoff. Provides 90 PSI. You've talked about relays. There are timed relays, SCRs, etc. I've always used OPTO 22 SCRs. Useful for controlling an inductive load, like a motor. Zero crossing switching, so you're not slamming the motor. I use a cheap, old laptop (with custom software) for state control.
Hi GrayRoanek

You wouldn`t gain much from zero cross switching with the pump/accumulator approach as the pump only runs a couple of times a day. A pump on its own can`t provide 1 second misting pulses no matter how its switched so it wouldn`t be much help there ;)

I've found 40Khz is appropriate to generate a ~50 micron mist from ultrasonic transducers
If you could control the transducers to the nth degree they could work quite well. Mist without control will just soak everything :)
 

fatman7574

New Member
thanks fatman for chiming in on everything AFTER i buy all this stuff and wait over a week for it all to ship in.

maybe ill get to try this idea on my NEXT setup :)

seriously tho, i would like to know how all this stuff works, so more details on an exact shopping list, and how it all configures together would be great.
Your welcome sherri.

I have been avoiding this thread lately as I have been in a bad mood and I did not want to come to this thread and dump on ayone due to my anger over the Uncle Ben crap I just went through.
 

Treeth

Well-Known Member
Don't censor yourself fatman-
I just read through 'it', and never found your comments to be out of line (except for those deleted?); and I don't think you need to be reflexive on your particular praxis... here on the boards or across other spaces. Those many confrontational, discursive issues which you are so well equipped to draw out, as an active member of contemporary academia are beyond resolution by any one person. I greatly appreciate your contributions, logic, and science, as they challenge me to evolve my perceptions. Very few posters can do this, past simply imparting their personal, dogmatic, tacit understandings of growing; I.E. Ben. Taking your advanced knowledge out of the institutional setting is an act implicitly to be commended and of immense benefit to the community. This is an all too infrequent an occurrence, more generally, despite these difficulties inherit in turning the entrenched. Even with persistence.

... I really need to get out of my sewage buckets. How is your air assisted atomization project taking shape fatman?

I had constructed a styrofoam box, 2'x2'x4', with rows and columns of holes on the top face in which to seat netcups; however I could not get my plants to root, using two Delevan Sn assemblies and timings similar to TF's ~2 sec to 8 minutes. The setup was destroyed, as it was not sustainable through flowering. The problem of root zone air circulation has to be dealt with first. Which means constructing a full dual zone setup, with climate control on either side. The logistics of which are perhaps beyond the space limitations of my current op, besides having the patience for aero root development from clones... Another dual hose air conditioner and associated ducting, a couple more Sn-s and adapters for more complete coverage, a larger compressor tank, a silent compressor, and the divider walls... Which do not inhibit air flow on the lighted side, are light proof, and accessible to manipulate the misters. I think that is a complete structural representation...

The only remaining problem for this drain to waste, vertical sog, divided room set up, is in figuring out a feeding mechanism for the atomizers. Whether the reservoir(s) are to be local, or system wide. How to have solution ready at the nozzle with minimal venturi suction needed to draw liquid during the pulse. AND how to solve the drip problem of the nozzles, which will allow solution to stream out.

My thought that you guys could help me with, is finding a membrane to fit in-line between the open nozzle, and the pressure of a gravity fed line of nutrient solution from the res; 'resistance' which is to be overcome momentarily by the negative pressure of the compressed air, when released on the timed solenoid valve. A very low tech, and easily replaced, passive type of solenoid. Powerade bottles over a decade ago had something like this.

Sherry, your DWC/AERO hybrid is exactly right. Pull the feeder type roots down with an insuring DO solution on the floor, and hit this drinking 'superstructure' root system with mist. I'm going to try this in my isolated, 5 gallon DWC's. The only problem is, that this is a recirculating system... And so complicates things. Fatman has me assuming, that the best, complete way to feed truly aeroponically, is run to waste, in a sog style op. You'll be able to grow massive trees, but the efficacy of 'fuzzy' aero roots compared to drinking roots in uptake necessitates separate nutrient solutions... Also, if aero mist must dry on the fine root hairs, and not run having only one pass, this specifically excludes the use of recirculating nutes, No? And, what I don't know either, is how dangerous the run to waste nutes that end up in the recirculating system become over time, and how quickly. I think it is important to recognize the different types of roots. You said it yourself... Surface area. So, forcing a big root structure, and then cultivating and keeping fuzzy roots, is the way to go, and to keep the true aeroponic breed and its benefits, including speed. Today I also learned that nutrient purity on a medicinal level is also most possible in Tag. (UV bulbs kick ass by the way. I've been using the reptisun 10.0 uvb cfl's later in flowering.)

Oh, and Fatman, or others, do you possess an informed position on, pulse width modulation of photometric flux in 4 dimensional relation to the "step" like process of photon capture in photosynthesis? I'm wondering specifically if you've read any research beyond those studies limited to species, spectrum, timing, and efficacy of micro biotic action, but on a whole plant?

Morning Ya'll.
 

Atomizer

Well-Known Member
Hi Treeth, welcome back :)

One of your comments struck a chord with me so i did a quick search through my research.. Et Voila!
The conventional understanding of root hair function is that root hairs increase root surface area, thereby enhancing water and nutrient uptake.

http://vzj.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/7/3/1027

A plant grown in an aeroponic environment produces abundant root hairs to increase the effective root capture area in order to connect with as much mist as possible.
 

sherriberry

New Member
any advice on how to get more boron into my nutes?

ps, i was being serious fatman... id like to figure out how you level finding system works
 

OregonMeds

Well-Known Member
I did not want to come to this thread and dump on ayone due to my anger over the Uncle Ben crap I just went through.
Again?

Please just try to ignore the fools, you're better than that.

You're one of the most valued people on here and we need you around.

He isn't shit, and wouldn't be missed.

Fight settled.
 

OregonMeds

Well-Known Member
any advice on how to get more boron into my nutes?

ps, i was being serious fatman... id like to figure out how you level finding system works
No, other than keeping the ph in the right range so the plant can use it, but this brings up a question I had which relates to the aero/dwc plan.

According to charts like this there's a gap in between where some nutrients are available and others. I'm wondering if you would want to have slightly different ph values than most people run in the hybrid so that one system is ideal to deliver one set of nutrients and the other...



Treeth wondered about what the aero runoff would do to the dwc mix, I am also wondering the same thing. I think from the sound of things the aero runoff would be small compared to the dwc volume, so it might not make much difference aside from what it may do to the ph of the dwc water.

In standard systems some are manipulating the ph at different stages of the plants life, for example raising ph to give calcium early in flower rather than add cal-mag or whatever then going back to normal after that stage... Could things like that be avoided and a set ph be used in both all the way through since ea could be different?
 

sherriberry

New Member
wow, i grasp what youre saying completely....

so for instance... if you had the sprayers spray from a pure res where ph was 5.5....

and then the dwc in the bottom was kept at 5.9 or 6.0

this would allow the plants roots the best of both worlds.

The only question is would the dwc water the roots are carrying to the top... would its PH affect or block the desired effect from the mist ph? see what im saying?

im not that savvy to even come close to knowing the answer to that.
 

sherriberry

New Member
volume in my setup is going to be AT LEAST 55gal, but prob even more.

id say closer to 70 gal probably.

WHen you realize im using 5+ rubbermiad 44gal totes...

and they will always be at least 3 inches deep, and the main res will also be pretty full at all times.

like ive said... it becomes impossible for anything to flood tho, even if power goes out.

The spray WOULD NOT affect ph much at all...

and... one has to check the ph anyway once a day, so at that point you just adjust it, with up or down stuff.
 

fatman7574

New Member
The pH changes in the run of water from aero are large but they will not be that noticeable what with the large reservoir size. I generally formulate my nutrients for a pH of 7.8 Phosphorus, Magnesium and Calcium are in buffer compounds so it shows in the pH charts the availability as if all the Phosphorus, Magnesium and Calcium are tied up in buffering compounds. However this not the case in fresh nutrients with adequte levels of these salts, only in old nutrients solutions that have not had the EC maintained between reservoir changes.
 

tree farmer

Well-Known Member
i dont feel the aero part if HP is used would contribute much to the below DWC content. in my current system im at .5 sec every 5 minutes and i only see around 8 ounces currently during lights on come out the drain(even less on the larger one) and almost nothing during lights out. the ph is usually .2 to .5 higher than going in so with this small amount of mist ending up in the Dwc and small ph rise it wouldnt contribute much to the solution in my opinion. one could speculate that possibly the plant with an efficient HP root system doesnt need large quanities of water since in my current run they seem to be doing ok with the little they see. i could be wrong though maybe they would be growing much faster than they are if they had tap roots in a constant source of water. i do know that if i mist them much more they start to show the signs of overwatering. i guess well find out when you guys get going.

treeth
I thought you maybe fell into a hole we havent heard from you in so long. im currently watching a guy set up an HP cloner and am wondering how its going to work. im wondering why yours didnt take.
 

tree farmer

Well-Known Member
fatman
here is a question for you. how much if any do you think plants uptake nutrients during lights out. im trying to get an idea of how much nutes is necessary during that time. does a plant just rely on stored energy during that time or do they use some nutes even though photosynthesis is not taking place. i want to use this info to determine misting cycles and nutrient levels for lights out if possible.
 

sherriberry

New Member
The pH changes in the run of water from aero are large but they will not be that noticeable what with the large reservoir size. I generally formulate my nutrients for a pH of 7.8 Phosphorus, Magnesium and Calcium are in buffer compounds so it shows in the pH charts the availability as if all the Phosphorus, Magnesium and Calcium are tied up in buffering compounds. However this not the case in fresh nutrients with adequte levels of these salts, only in old nutrients solutions that have not had the EC maintained between reservoir changes.

7.8? dude, you are a crazy genius....

you loose me every time you talk...

im a fast learner if you could just give a quick crash course or point me to one so i can get on somewhat of the same page with you.

I want to mix up my own nutes.. im scared to pull the trigger tho because i have to buy them in bulk, and every time you talk, its like something new out of left field, so im worried ill completely screw it up.

PLEASE TAKE A TRIP TO MY LOCATION SO WE CAN TALK AND I WILL MAKE IT WORTH YOUR WHILE, I have free nice cars for you to drive and a extra house with a nice huge bed to sleep in.

kiss-ass
 
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