MY True HP Aero Plug&Play Pods
- Thread starter tree farmer
- Start date
- Status
clydefrog
Well-Known Member
i've been looking at the nozzles everyone's using and i can't find those exact netafims atomizer has. i checked out greenhousemegastore but the nozzles don't look the same and the flow rate was pretty high. does anyone know if those adv valves from netafim will work with other systems? i can't tell what connection type they are or if they're proprietary to netafim foggers.
treefarmer, are you still happy with with your dig misters?
i've seen some impingement nozzles around that look like they might be effective...http://www.bete.com/
i asked them for a quote...i'm sure they're expensive.
treefarmer, are you still happy with with your dig misters?
i've seen some impingement nozzles around that look like they might be effective...http://www.bete.com/
i asked them for a quote...i'm sure they're expensive.
fatman7574
New Member
The goal as far as yields is concerened is really no more than what the same strain would do in a more conventional grow in a normal time period. Basically your talking for a SOG producing 12" plants in 5 or 6 weeks total with the same yield as 18" inch plats in 8 or 9 weeks. That means alos using less light ad the palnts are shorter, plus the growing periods is cut by one third cutting the energy needs by another one third, plus one third less CO2 and about 1/5 to 1/10 of the nutrient cost and water cost. Basically just growing as efficiently and as quickly as possible. It is however at this point easier to grow SOG in this manner in a shorter time than normal at a lesser cost than taller plants. Efficient HP aero and air atomixed aero tends to cause a bonzai effect by producing plants that have very short internodes. That is beneficial to a fast SOG grow but not so much for groiwng large trees. I myself doubt if am highly efficient aero used in a highy efficient manner will ever grow large taller plants any where near as tall as they would grow in a less efficient system when grown over a longer period of time.
It really does not make much since to use an HP aero or air atomized system to grow a plant inefficiently through a long stretched out veg state and then switch to flowering in an efficient manner. That is basically what TAG is trying to accomplish with tall plant grows. They basically end up will tall thin scraggly plants that veg at a normal pace and veg at a quick rate. Sad finished results as the buds do not fill out as the palnts are too stretched with large internode spaces.
It requires a much greater grasp of an individual strains needs and a greater control over cycle times and nutrient control. With the desire for taller plants there seems to be more of a need to be less thah fully efficient until the needs can be found to suit the results you desire.
HP aero or air atomized aero would not very likely grow an auto strain to any great size at all. They would mature and bud very quickly. The cost of auto seeds would just take to big a cut out of the eficiency though. It is just so efficient and seems to lead to very quick plant maturity that just doesn't happen with other methods. I am amxiously waiting on teg he NASA paid researchers to publish the results of aero hormonal tests. It will be very intersting what they find in relation to the faster maturation and short internodal spacing aspects of air atomized aero. No space farmer is going to be content with just growing super short quick maturity grains. They will want fruits and vegetable also. At the pace Nasa has slowed down to dues to defense spending mj growers information might easily out pace data from government research on aero growing. If the growers freely release their discoveries and collected testing and growing data.
IMHO At this point in time I doubt that any growers whether private, academic or government paid are going to widely share and definitely not publicly post all their data, full experiences or learned knowledge in regard to HP or air atomized growing of MJ or any other crop.
It really does not make much since to use an HP aero or air atomized system to grow a plant inefficiently through a long stretched out veg state and then switch to flowering in an efficient manner. That is basically what TAG is trying to accomplish with tall plant grows. They basically end up will tall thin scraggly plants that veg at a normal pace and veg at a quick rate. Sad finished results as the buds do not fill out as the palnts are too stretched with large internode spaces.
It requires a much greater grasp of an individual strains needs and a greater control over cycle times and nutrient control. With the desire for taller plants there seems to be more of a need to be less thah fully efficient until the needs can be found to suit the results you desire.
HP aero or air atomized aero would not very likely grow an auto strain to any great size at all. They would mature and bud very quickly. The cost of auto seeds would just take to big a cut out of the eficiency though. It is just so efficient and seems to lead to very quick plant maturity that just doesn't happen with other methods. I am amxiously waiting on teg he NASA paid researchers to publish the results of aero hormonal tests. It will be very intersting what they find in relation to the faster maturation and short internodal spacing aspects of air atomized aero. No space farmer is going to be content with just growing super short quick maturity grains. They will want fruits and vegetable also. At the pace Nasa has slowed down to dues to defense spending mj growers information might easily out pace data from government research on aero growing. If the growers freely release their discoveries and collected testing and growing data.
IMHO At this point in time I doubt that any growers whether private, academic or government paid are going to widely share and definitely not publicly post all their data, full experiences or learned knowledge in regard to HP or air atomized growing of MJ or any other crop.
fatman7574
New Member
No Earl. Not gonna happen.
If you need photos put together a system, if you can. Then simply read the thread ad grow what you think best, and shoot away with your camera. If you want to learn something take chances and learn through experimentation, don't expect to get anywhere by just copying others at this thread and benefiting entirely at their expenses. No one at this thread is going to provide you with enough data for that or pictures for that Earl. Your an experienced grower and even a moderator at another forum, extend yourself rather than copying others because you think photos prove or disprove something. This is an adult information site not a photo album.
If you have something to share please do so, other wise read what is here and be happy with that or simply go way if your not happy with what is already posted.
Saying please just really is not enough. Take a personal interest and tryi finding something to contribute that realtes to HP or aeroponic growing and maybe you will get to see private albums and receive private emails with photos. However, I really do not think you have anything to contribute that will make that happen though.
clydefrog
Well-Known Member
i wouldn't mind publishing data if i ever got to that point...mj is such a localized product and around here there's such great demand and so little supply the growers are pretty congenial towards each other (most of them anyway...there's always a douchebag in the bunch). i've given cuttings away and had friends give me seeds and cuttings both. as we all know information is harder to transfer to others and with the attention to detail required for this stuff, most of the guys i know growing don't take the risk going hydro no matter how evangelistic i am.
are you using any hp nozzles in your tests Fatman?
hydroboy27
Member
so what you are saying is a 6 week plant in hp aero can yeild as much as a well grown 8 week plant in another format? Or are you saying the yeilds are less or greater? About how much dried weight can you get off a single sog plant fatman? And do you lollipop or??
fatman7574
New Member
Yes the yields of clone based SOG with HP aero, or air atomized aero in 5 to 6 weeks will be as large as grows requiring more intense lighting, more CO2, more air conditioningm more nutrients, more water and more dehumification in a DWC, Ebb and Flow, NTF, low pressure aero etc while the plants are growing and it will do so in two to three weeks less growing time from clones using a drain to waste system. the plants will be shorter bay about onetho ird bi ut the interm node will be approximattly the same number but much closer together. The only real diss ficuly ty is fainding a strain that best fits the parametersyou are willing to consistently supply. As the water is drain to waster there will be no PH or EC adjustments of a recurculatory reservoir system. However it is a completely new set of growing methods to learn. Were talking about low EC nutrients (about 650 ppm or less) timers, solenoids, and either an accumalator tank and high pressure pumps and its gages and controls, valves pressure swich and relief valve, or an even more elaborate air atomized system. Your talking a ssytem that at just 3 or four feet square would retail for over $4000. Were talking about chambers or tents or huge self made tubes that allow for big roots systems to hand in air for c several feet.
However we are also talking about systems that not anyone here or on any other site knows evertything about yet. Not even the researchers working for Nasa have all the answers yet. Where talking systems that have to be dilaed in individually as there are so many vraibales and so little data yet accumulated. It is easier to learn what does not work well than what does work well. Mistakes show results faster in such a grow than in less efficient grows. Many problems in other systems never show up untill your roots start rotting or until you harvest and see how dismally the grow was verus the previous grow with the same clone stock even when you think you did everyhing the same for both grows. With these system problems are seen very quickly. The knowledge of know how to fix the problems though is not like other systems that have been used by thousands of others who have posted info to the forums however. Consider eve low pressure small tube aero when new few knew much and many crpos were lost for differing reasons. Things were learned and shared. Even now though there are people who still pass on myths about aero in small tubes. Things like the necessity for low nutrient temps and high reservoir DO or high EC nutrients and spraying with stream squirting sprayes from lame low pressure Danner pumps 24/7.
IN THIS THREAD OLD MYTHS ARE NOT PERPETUATED. There is a lot of new information and most of the data that applies to other grows just do not apply here. Things like temps really only apply here due to CO2 constraints not nutrient DO prior to spraying or reservoir bacteria or reservoir DO levels.
These are system where yo must think and learn not just try to copy someones else. Some would just say there is a large learning curve with these systems. In their design, building operation and use as well as continual leraning and adaptions there is a lot of learned need my many. Some will just never be able to deal with the challenges involved.
However we are also talking about systems that not anyone here or on any other site knows evertything about yet. Not even the researchers working for Nasa have all the answers yet. Where talking systems that have to be dilaed in individually as there are so many vraibales and so little data yet accumulated. It is easier to learn what does not work well than what does work well. Mistakes show results faster in such a grow than in less efficient grows. Many problems in other systems never show up untill your roots start rotting or until you harvest and see how dismally the grow was verus the previous grow with the same clone stock even when you think you did everyhing the same for both grows. With these system problems are seen very quickly. The knowledge of know how to fix the problems though is not like other systems that have been used by thousands of others who have posted info to the forums however. Consider eve low pressure small tube aero when new few knew much and many crpos were lost for differing reasons. Things were learned and shared. Even now though there are people who still pass on myths about aero in small tubes. Things like the necessity for low nutrient temps and high reservoir DO or high EC nutrients and spraying with stream squirting sprayes from lame low pressure Danner pumps 24/7.
IN THIS THREAD OLD MYTHS ARE NOT PERPETUATED. There is a lot of new information and most of the data that applies to other grows just do not apply here. Things like temps really only apply here due to CO2 constraints not nutrient DO prior to spraying or reservoir bacteria or reservoir DO levels.
These are system where yo must think and learn not just try to copy someones else. Some would just say there is a large learning curve with these systems. In their design, building operation and use as well as continual leraning and adaptions there is a lot of learned need my many. Some will just never be able to deal with the challenges involved.
Hi Clydefrog,
I had to get mine from a commercial agricultural supplier. The grey nozzles are much easier to find but have a longer throw and deliver a fair amount even with a 0.36 second pulse. You`d need to make custom adapters to use the adv`s with another type of nozzle.
Be prepared to take out a second mortgage for bete nozzles
tree farmer
Well-Known Member
i dont use dig misters. i used those on my lp systems. the nozzels i now use put out .04 ounces per sec with approx. 50 micron droplets. the bete nozzles are good but they run about 30 dollars a piece. the dig nozzles wont work that well with 100psi as they are designed for under 80psi i believe. there good nozzles as i used them for years but not for above 80 psi.
Dude Man
Your chamber is about 73.67 gal (279L) use the fewest number of nozzles that provide complete mist coverage with the lowest flowrate possible. The best idea is to test the nozzles to see what angle, throw and flowrate they have at your average system pressure and go from there.
Your chamber is about 73.67 gal (279L) use the fewest number of nozzles that provide complete mist coverage with the lowest flowrate possible. The best idea is to test the nozzles to see what angle, throw and flowrate they have at your average system pressure and go from there.
tree farmer
Well-Known Member
you have to know the output flowrate of the nozzle and the pattern it produces to determine the proper amount and placement of the nozzles. every system will be different depending on the variables you have. the number of plants per chamber will also determine the number of nozzles needed for adequate coverage.
Dude Man
Member
I was thinking 8 misters spaced evenly a pod, With either 10 sites for short quick or 3 for big and tall?
misters would be running at between 80 - 100 psi so that's 0.8 x 3.79 = 3032mL per/hr ,,, 3032/60 = 50.53mL per/min ,,, 50.53/60 = 0.842mL per/sec...
8 misters would give "under hypothetical laboratory situations" 13.475mL per/2 sec mist cycle?
I understand the math i think but i have no clue how much water a plant needs? it obviously depends on many factors but?
Part = MNRED
Color = Red
SprayAngle = 110°
Diameter * = 2'
Droplet SizeMicrons = 50
GPH@ 40 PSI = 0.6
GPH@ 80 PSI = 0.7
GPH@100 PSI = 0.9
misters would be running at between 80 - 100 psi so that's 0.8 x 3.79 = 3032mL per/hr ,,, 3032/60 = 50.53mL per/min ,,, 50.53/60 = 0.842mL per/sec...
8 misters would give "under hypothetical laboratory situations" 13.475mL per/2 sec mist cycle?
I understand the math i think but i have no clue how much water a plant needs? it obviously depends on many factors but?
Part = MNRED
Color = Red
SprayAngle = 110°
Diameter * = 2'
Droplet SizeMicrons = 50
GPH@ 40 PSI = 0.6
GPH@ 80 PSI = 0.7
GPH@100 PSI = 0.9
Test one nozzle at 90psi using a 2 second pulse, and see how much water it delivers from start to finish. If its double the amount you expected you`ll need to half the number of nozzles or reduce the misting pulse by 50% to match the nozzles printed spec.
Without testing its all...hit and hope
Without testing its all...hit and hope
fatman7574
New Member
I just would like to see what all the fuss is about.
Wow Earl you actually got a photo of the roots in your over packed little tubes before they rotted away. Looks like a NTF grow with the majority of the browning roots laying in water rather than up in the air like a properly built aero. What do you call that aberration?
Wow Earl you actually got a photo of the roots in your over packed little tubes before they rotted away. Looks like a NTF grow with the majority of the browning roots laying in water rather than up in the air like a properly built aero. What do you call that aberration?
clydefrog
Well-Known Member
what are you currently using?
they were quick to respond with a quote: $27 apiece...but they are stainless so i guess they'd be darn near indestructible.
what do you think about the impingement design? is it unnecessary with your psi?
Nozzles will need replacing sooner or later no matter what they are made of
http://www.spraytec.com/21/spray-nozzles-wear-tear
http://www.spraytec.com/21/spray-nozzles-wear-tear
fatman7574
New Member
Nice link.Nozzles will need replacing sooner or later no matter what they are made of
http://www.spraytec.com/21/spray-nozzles-wear-tear
clydefrog
Well-Known Member
that makes sense to a point...your article seems to recommend stainless/ceramic for ~75+psi and since i havent run across any 50 micron ceramic sprayers lately...Nozzles will need replacing sooner or later no matter what they are made of
http://www.spraytec.com/21/spray-nozzles-wear-tear
how often do you swap out your netafims?
- Status