NeerGreen: New Era grow #1

Yeah, I'd say hold off on any nutes until a couple weeks into veg. Or at least until you see veg growth noticeably improving. Hope it works out for ya.

Last night I removed the nute feed from my ailing Alice. I poured water over the Hydroton evening, night, 1st thing in the morning. Her condition is worsening, but there is still growth.
Halle is thriving, albeit quite slowly by ordinary standards I imagine.
I pumped 40 liters out of the res and added 30 liters of just water. Ppm (indicated; I wonder about the Nutra Dip) went from 460 to 310. I had to vigorously pH-down to about 5.6.
I put Runter Alice back on the drip feed. I'd hate for her to dry out ... and one never knows - perhaps the horse will sing.

Here are my little pretties:
cn

(whinny!) Do re mi fa ...
I think the trend is reversed and things are looking better. Runter Alice isn't getting any worse ... the cotyleda have stopped their dying-back, and the second set of leaves has shown growth overnight. Halle is positively burgeoning. Still no sign of roots coming through the net pots.

I credit dropping the ppms with the improvement. So i added another bucket of tap water to the res, knocking ppm back from 310 to 280 indicated. I downed pH to about 5.5.
Halle and Alice ... cn

The latest.
Halle


Runter Alice

cn

Things are definitely looking up.
Yesterday i built a shoosh box for my air pump. It's a noisy beast, and without the shoosh box I could not sleep. Now that Halle has roots extending into the res, I've discontinued top feed on her and rigged both feed lines to Alice.
Root pic isn't very good, but those are new! Weren't there at this time yeaterday. Yow!!



Here are Halle and Alice today. Res is nice and stable - pH 5.4; 290 ppm. cn

Just checking in... let see how it goes from here... best of luck

Big day today: I changed out my nutes.
The original batch began to have a very faint but definite smell, like vitamin pills. My res felt squeaky clean, but the in/out feed mlines (that 1/2" black vinyl) had a slight coating of slime. So i laboriously emptied the res and both buckets, then wiped them down with very dilute dish soap and a drop of Physan 20.
When I added fresh water to the res, it read 170 ppm!! Four weeks ago my tap water was 40 ppm. Must be seasonal ... our water is a mix of mountain water and groundwater.
So i made a mix of 70 liters water to 10 liters full-strength veg feed, which reads 1440 ppm. The blend is 290 ppm, same as what i just changed out. I'm still stabilizing pH ... had it set to 5.5 at 5pm, but at 10:30 it had run up to 6.9. Just dropped it and will check in the morning.
Halle has roots! They're growing fast ... couple of inches a day on the longest, which is branching out secondaries.
Alice limps along, no roots yet, but she's alive and enjoying her top feed. cn
Halle ....................Alice

I got radical today.
Alice (my poky little White Widow) is showing yellowing of the outboard half of her first set of true leaves. So I decided to do a bit of diagnosis. I took her net pot and a bucket of water ... and floated the Hydroton, so that I could pull the Oasis cube up without trauma and inspect her roots. They had not shown below the net pot yet, even though her healthier tentmate Halle is going great (okay, medium) guns.
The roots are long enough to reach out of the pot, so I allowed a tiny root tip to protrude from the bottom, then gently filled the Hydroton back in. Let's see if Alice survives this handling ... and maybe even thrives.
I also removed the top feeds and their hose, and rigged the "main stage" watering system. This feeds nutes into the buckets from the bottom, while a gravity drain maintains level and returns excess nute solution to the main res. I rigged the pump with a Y and made a ghetto check valve from a but of tubing, a barb and a not-round pebble. Most of the pumped liquid exits that side relief port. The rest is gently circulating into the buckets.

The nutrient solution I made up yesterday shot up in pH to 6.90 by evening's end! I aggressively pHed it down to 5.2, and this morning it was at 5.9. I have it now at 5.4. I am guessing that I am seeing outgassing of carbonic acid. I also punched total ppm up from 290 to 420 ... yeah.
I had a little headslap epiphany last night as a dab of some rather nice extract was helping me fall asleep despite a spell of laryngitis. I am supplying 108 watts of light to two plants, so maybe I cannot expect faster growth. it's full Indian summer here in the 'Stan, with 84 degrees outside today and 80 in the grow room, so as soon as temps drop I will engage the 600W MH conversion bulb. maybe growth rates will jump then.

Here are Halle and Alice today. cn

Hey man, nice journal so far!

By the way you probably won't name your plants after a while...lol.

How old are Halle and Alice? They look like my 9 day old from seed feminized buddies.

I just started a grow too so maybe we can collaborate, even though I'm doing a soil grow, it's still indoors.

'neer, my dear, just remember that sometimes less is more. Your babies look great, their growth rate with jump when the roots hit the water...No need to disturb them by de-potting for a root inspection, and I suspect the removal of your top-feed line will cause the roots to stretch towards the reservoir. No, they look healthy, my friend...I suggest you buckle up, because it's about to get very interesting for ya. It's amazing to see how fast they grow once they really take off! I'm sure with the amount of care you take in all things, this will be no exception, and I expect nothing less than greatness from you, Sir.

jonblaze420: I put seeds into water on the evening of October 4th. So they're 20 days old ... 17 if you count "since placing sprouted seed in Oasis". I cannot help but name living things in my charge.

Metasynth: I am totally basking in the compliment. This morning I had a major whoopsie ... as my thread in the DWC forum attests. My carpet is wet, and I can't really move my tent. I have to give my buckets a serious reconsideration in terms of design ... even before the flood the drain wasn't working right.
Alice's exposed root grew a teenytiny bit overnight. Considering the beating she's been taking, that is fine performance.
It's hot here again today. No go yet on the MH, but at least the carpet will dry . cn

Oof! What a day.
Overnight one of my buckets developed a stress/fatigue crack around one of the lower hose fittings. I woke up to a minor flood. Also the drain tube must have "vapor locked", so at one point the Hydroton "floated" entirely up, capsizing poor dear Alice. I gently "floated" her again in abucket of water and righted her. Halle has enough roots that she stayed put.

So I ditched the remaining nutrient and laboriously disassembled everything, relocated the tent onto a patch of dry carpet, and Shop Vac'd what I could out of the "little budwetters'" corner.

I patched my buckets by cementing (with shower silicone) patches cut from soda-can aluminum over the lower holes left after I removed the hose barbs, and have rebuilt my rDWC two-hole setup with the slow but safe drip feed, which allows a complete exchange of liquid in each bucket about every 2 hours. I also fitted my air lines with straight barbs so I can take everything apart without having to unscrew the lid from my particle-board "shoosh box".

I mixed fresh nutrient ... 60 l tap water and 20 l prepared "Nitro-Vite" veg nute, for a final ppm (indicated) of 470. pH is 5.4 at the moment, but I will be watching it like a hawk as carbonic acid is blown off.

Poor Alice is yellowing a little. Nirvana "White Widow" fem is the finickiest strain with which I have worked so far ... but that isn't saying a whole lot, lol . Look at those fat little leaves ... more Indica than I'd bargained for?
Halle is just happy as a ... weed. cn

<edit> I just checked the buckets, and Halle's FREAKIN MAIN ROOT BROKE CLEAN OFF. argh and damn. cn

Alice ... and Halle


Here is the offending bucket ... note stress crack at 9 o'clock.

Here is the new, not improved but at least working setup.

cannabineer said:

jonblaze420: I put seeds into water on the evening of October 4th. So they're 20 days old ... 17 if you count "since placing sprouted seed in Oasis". I cannot help but name living things in my charge.

Metasynth: I am totally basking in the compliment. This morning I had a major whoopsie ... as my thread in the DWC forum attests. My carpet is wet, and I can't really move my tent. I have to give my buckets a serious reconsideration in terms of design ... even before the flood the drain wasn't working right.
Alice's exposed root grew a teenytiny bit overnight. Considering the beating she's been taking, that is fine performance.
It's hot here again today. No go yet on the MH, but at least the carpet will dry . cn

Click to expand...

I was wrong I counted the days wrong, my plants were 11 days from seed when I compared mine to yours.


Now they're 12 or 13 days from seed. got all 8 of em under a 1000 w hps for veg, didn't feel like getting a MH bulb even though the ballast is reversible

Everything looks good continue your good work please!

'neer, how did you cut he holes for your buckets? Did you use a drill bit? Then, did you just use barbed connectors and caulking, or do you have some grommets in there as well? I was going to do the same thing as you, use caulking without grommets(if that is indeed what you were doing), but then I thought "Self, you don't wanna wake up to squishy carpet, do you?"...I wonder, for just the 2 plants ATM, why not just use individual buckets? It's a pretty easy once-a-week rez change situation, with maybe a couple gallons added back during the week. Well, different strokes for different folks, eh? Wouldn't wory about a broken root, they'll grow more roots, I hope this new setup works out. Adding the water through the drip lines and draining out the 1/4( 1/2? ) inch tubing?

Also, don't those OSH buckets let a fair amount of light into the rezervoir? I'm thinking with white buckets, you might grow algae eventually, but then again, maybe not. I jusyt know that last time I looked at the buckets at OSH, and I help them up to the store fluorescent overhead lighting, I could see a good amount of light showing through...I'm not trying to be critical of your setup, just trying to maybe help identify problems before they become problems? You're my team, I run DWC as well, so anything we can do to help each other is welcome!

Metasynth:
I use Lowe's buckets. I spray painted that set white, but I don't know if I'll do that again. Rust-Oleum didn't bond well to the plastic, and there are annoying white flakes everywhere. Lowe's buckets are a sort of metalized gray, and while I can see my green laser through the wall faintly, I can't see a CFL through it at all. So effectively light-tight imo.
I did use a 1/2" drill bit. I then dressed the hole with a 1/2" reamer that actually "mikes out" to .529" across the large end. The barbs went into the dressed holes with a little but not much effort.
My hydro store guy said yesterday that he'll get grommets overnighted. Today i stopped by and he said (as if nothing ever happened) that he'll order them today or tomorrow. Four weeks ago I asked after the grommets, and he said he'll order some then. Pfah.
So now I'm thinking rebuild, minus paint, and use my 1/2" rat-tail file to make the holes an easy fit. I bought aquarium sealer; that should outperform the white silicone shower goo I've been using.

Jonblaze - thank you for the kind words. I feel like a penguin trying to play foosball, what with all the rookie mistakes I'm making for the first time all over again. My 20th-century grows went smoother than this!! cn

It's been a bad 36 hours ... had the flood and bucket failure yesterday morning. I thought I'd done a pretty nice save ... but today my plants look worse. Roots haven't grown ONE BIT.
I might have isolated a major problem however. I adjusted this res charge to just over 1 ppm "Physan 20", an algaecide/algaestat. I added 0.5 ml of 20% Physan to my res filled to 80 liters. So, Scientific Grower Is Scientific ... I wondered if maybe the Physan is my rogue component. i never used it before, and I've been going on faith and Internet wisdom in believing it to be safe. My nute stock contains 1 ppm Physan, but when i diluted that to ~300 ppm i had growth and a stop to the yellowing problem.
Well Alice got *quite* yellow overnight, and even Halle is showing a bit of bleaching at the tips. So I *immediately* drained my res and buckets, and have now mixed up a fresh, mild nute solution using 60 l water and 10 l "Nitro-Vite!" that has the Physan in it. If things look better, i'll mix fresh Nitro-Vite with zero Physan. I don't know yet if Physan is inherently bad for Cannabis, or if it's a problem for such young plants.
New res stats: ph currently 5.4, ppm read 320 ... "chicken soup" time.

Yesterday when I mixed the Physan-rich nute, I noticed that for 1/2 hour after, my hand (the mixing hand, lol) burned a little. I figured it for a psychosomatic response at the time. Today's nute is almost burn-free, but it has 0.15 ppm Physan. I also noticed that when I transported my bad nute to the sink, one bucketload at a time, and poured it ... it was a bit sudsy. That can't be good!

Halle and Alice today. Alice doesn't look so bad in the pic ... under white light she looks simply sickly. cn

I am thrashing, and my plants are ailing.
Last night i noticed a sharp decline in the plants' health. I figured maybe the Physan was the culprit, so i changed the res. This morning, they looked worse, and now even Halle is looking a bit peaked. Her first true leaves have gone yellow and purplish/brown blotchy, and they have a weird leathery brittle texture. Since I've been feeding them low-ppm chow, i wondered if maybe I was severely underfeeding them. So i resorted to Plan B and added 50 ml each of the GH Flora liquid nutes (their seedling regimen says use 2.5 ml per gallon, and 75 liters is about 20 gallons), jumping TDS to about 730 indicated.
After 10 hours, not a hint of root growth and they're looking progressively worse. So I dumped 30 liters of nute, poured in 30 l of water, pH'd and am now reading 450 ppm.
At this point, unless someone has a major insight, I'm diagnosing my sickly colors as overnutrition ... no response to proven nutes suggests that my morning diagnosis of N/K deficiency was wrong.

I am at wit's end with these plants. I simply don't know what to do. cn

Halle and Alice today ... in natural light.


Halle and Alice under the T5s ...

Wish I knew more about hydroponic growing and in rock ton etc. so I could help more...

That's quite an undertaking for a first grow?

Halle and Alice don't look GREAT but they don't look BAD either, ya know? I have a runt growing that I didn't think would make it, cannabis is a pretty hardy plant.

All the best vibes sent towards your grow.

They are dying.
What I've done today:
I've stopped recirculation.
I've got each bucket rigged as just DWC now. I made reduced-strength nute at 300ppm ... that's almost nothing since my water starts at 170.
There has been no growth. top or bottom.

Halle and Alice. The lower leaves are quite dead ... in plain light it looks worse.
I really do not know what is wrong. They should NOT get nute burn at 400ish ppm.
The only remaining variable is the water, and if that is the problem I am hosed.

i am seriously considering re-planting them into soil.

Halle and Alice, the poor dears.

I have only two variables left to control.
1) My tap water ... it reads 170 ppm. I can't believe that that would be such a killer, but I've ordered a countertop RO system. Oy, momey money money. I've spent over $2000 on this grow already ... and as I am no longer a salaried yuppie that stings a little.
2) My lights. i've been running a 108-watt T5 panel following bulb recommendations available on this site. I decided it's finally cool enough to go to my main light, so "warp factor 6, Mr. Sulu"; i turned on the big 600 MH today.

Alice and Halle are alive, technically. The third pic (don't know if it shows) is a constellation of pinpoint "stars" showing through the light's exhaust duct. cn