Nonbelievers And Believers Alike, I Have A Question For You..

For me to believe in god, I would need evidence. The existence of god is a substantial claim so I would require substantial proof. Anyone who seeks the truth can not ignore proper evidence.

I would seriously begin to believe in a god if the known laws of physics were violated toward a specific purpose.

Heisenberg said:

For me to believe in god, I would need evidence. The existence of god is a substantial claim so I would require substantial proof. Anyone who seeks the truth can not ignore proper evidence.

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Not saying I believe in god.
But if they made a scientific chart containing evidence in god,
would you believe it? Or ignore it?
Like a chart of electical current.
You cant see it, but when it interacts with you, you have the effects of that.
Say some church made a chart with god,
you still wouldnt believe in it.
You would have to SEE GOD to BELIEVE it inperson.
But me personally I do not believe in god,
and nothing will change that.
Because were NOT going to see him/her/it anytime soon.
But maybe it awaits us after our "Death",
thats why it is good to always be GOOD,
and not try to harm anything in anyway.
But then again, would every animal go to hell cause they fight other animals?
Theirs animals that have jeolousy.
Putting that in the question,
no one is perfect,
and their is no god.
Its only a man made creation of our minds.
And life is infact a cycle.
Their might have been a "creator",
but the way we define god,
their isnt one.
Its just plain insanity in my eyes to believe in something like that.
Live the way you want to live.
If you want good, be good.
If your aggresive, your going to live agressive.
For every action theirs a reaction.
But who am I too say whether or not someone can believe in something.
Im just another human being like everyone else.

NoB

Nice Ol Bud said:

Not saying I believe in god.
But if they made a scientific chart containing evidence in god,
would you believe it? Or ignore it?
Like a chart of electical current.

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We don't believe science because they use charts. That's pretty funny but I just smoked so I get exactly what you were saying. But yes, if anyone, the church, scientists, or whoever, can show that there is actual, testable evidence for god in the same way there electricity is observable and testable, then I would believe it. I think what Pad wants to know is what would that evidence look like.

mindphuk said:

We don't believe science because they use charts. That's pretty funny but I just smoked so I get exactly what you were saying. But yes, if anyone, the church, scientists, or whoever, can show that there is actual, testable evidence for god in the same way there electricity is observable and testable, then I would believe it. I think what Pad wants to know is what would that evidence look like.

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If their is a "God",
it would be so complex.
Us trying to find "God" scientifically,
is like us trying to invent the radio without electicity..

If Scarlett johansen is in my bed naked when I get home I will repent. After I'm done with scarlett of course.

Nice Ol Bud said:

If their is a "God",
it would be so complex.
Us trying to find "God" scientifically,
is like us trying to invent the radio without electicity..

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Complexity has nothing to do with it. You are assigning specific properties that you cannot claim he has. If there is a god, and he interacts with the natural world as many believers claim, then there would be some trace, some evidence, unless it is purposely erased. Otherwise, you have to explain how something can interact with the natural world but not affect it.

mindphuk said:

Complexity has nothing to do with it. You are assigning specific properties that you cannot claim he has. If there is a god, and he interacts with the natural world as many believers claim, then there would be some trace, some evidence, unless it is purposely erased. Otherwise, you have to explain how something can interact with the natural world but not affect it.

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Your smart bro.
I have a clue of life and a high Consciousness,
but I cant word them the way you do.
& I agree with what your saying.
What are you smoking?
Lol jokin.

i do beleive in GOD

G.ood O.rganic D.rugs

as far as religion... ill stick to science and education, please
not suppression and denial of

Seeing him/her/it would be a nice start. Frankly I'm only familiar with the Judeo-Christian God, and I have never understood why he is so shy. You're all-powerful for crissake, why the phobia about people seeing what you look like? And why is it his voice is only heard through human intermediaries? Is he mute? Have an embarrassing lisp? Talk like Mike Tyson? It might be humiliating at first when people giggle at you, but you're God, you can be like that kid in The Twilight Zone movie and zap the gigglers into an episode of Itchy & Scratchy.

Then you just gotta put up or shut up. Heal an amputee. Move the star Vega into into the breastplate of Orion. Do several of these things upon request, things that could not be explained by other than supernatural means. Then I would believe. Someone that could do that could still conceivably be just a very powerful alien, but at that point what's the difference?

One thing I would not accept is proof by argument or logic. I swear, sometimes I think nobody actually believes in God. The people that say they do have such minimal standards for their deity, like He got me off the pipe, or the Universe is just-so, or how else did we get here. This is their evidence of the Almighty, Creator of the Universe, manufacturer of 600 bazillion stars, and their evidence for him is I Changed My Behavior. You're talking about God, not Tinkerbell. If God's not substantial enough to physically walk up and kick me in the nuts when I've displeased him, then what's the difference between him and Casper the Friendly Ghost?

Hey Pada,
I've been seeing you all over the forums recently and it's not a surprise to me that a topic this intresting was created by you. Anyway, I just want to start by saying my opinion on weather there is a God or not is very flexable because I feel honestly that both sides of the argument posses many valid points. The fact is (I know I shouldn't have to say it but some people just seem way too sure of themseleves) we cannot know for sure either way if there is a God or not, however, part of being a human is choosing based on these proofs, which side you are on. As for me, at this point in my life I feel that there is a God (of course no mumbo jumbo God from any organzied religion but the concept is still there) because of the overwhelming sensation I get of master plan or design. I have read and understand your argument against that Pada, but what can I say, my intuition pleads with me to disagree.
Finally to anserw the actual question in the OP, because it is impossible to know wether there is a God or not and I beleive even the most faithful of Christians have many doubts like all humans must, any one person is subject to change in thier belief if the right circumstances are put before them. Usually, in my opinion, a very well informed, experienced thinker on the subject matter has the power to change anyones opinion, especially if the subject matter is discussed open mindedly and without hostility. To me this question comes down to the fact that I beleive the most powerful human tool is logic and both the existence and non-existence of a God are conclusions that posses at least some degree of logic. It's simply up to each human to decide which of the two is more logical because obviosuly only one option is correct.
My question in response is, why does it matter? Should the existence or non-existence of a God determine the manner in which we live our lives? Isnt morality rational? Cant we agree that God or no God the purpose of life is happiness? And honestly is God even a good excuse to tame the fear of death? You die and there is a God, you presumably go to the afterlife (which may not even be true, who says an all powerful God dosent choose to end the cycle of every individual life at death?) and if you die and there is no God you literally do not even concieve it. What is the massive fuss over the God debate? As much as my human will and mind may compell me to ponder my orgin, isnt it simply a never ending battle with the mind? How much would it really hurt if people wasted less time thinking about if there really is a God or not and concentrated on living happily and morally while waiting for the anserw to lifes questions at death?
I look forward to reading your respone Pada, to be honest I didnt read anything but the OP....I am editing my post because I just finished reading the rest of the posts under the topic and I read many very insightful anserws and didnt want anyone to think im only addressing pada, Im just anxious to read what he has to say.
Thanks for reading.

Hey Dil

Sil Dil said:

The fact is we cannot know for sure either way if there is a God or not, however, part of being a human is choosing based on these proofs, which side you are on.

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I agree, there is no way to know for sure if a God exists. God is not measurable in the natural world.

One can't choose what one believes. Beliefs are not chosen. For instance, I can't choose to "believe" in gravity, gravity exists weather I believe it does or not, right?

Sil Dil said:

As for me, at this point in my life I feel that there is a God (of course no mumbo jumbo God from any organzied religion but the concept is still there) because of the overwhelming sensation I get of master plan or design.

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You don't feel like that's a bit of a jump of faith? Why do you attribute this feeling you get to some kind of a god?

Do you think you might subconsciously be doing it because you've been raised to believe a god exists? By that I mean - when you start thinking about human origins and how complex life is and the vastness of the universe, etc. you get this feeling, most people around you believe it's God, so you think it's logical to believe that too.

Could it be because you don't know enough about science? I'm not making any kind of statement, I'm just asking an honest question. When I was ignorant of the scientific theories that currently exist to explain our universes' origins I was a believer in an organized religion too, not very devout, but a believer none the less.. It was just because I didn't know what was out there, instead of magic there were actual reasonable explanations for existence and the void that I felt organized religion at the time filled was now really filled, and it was exciting because of the logic that backed everything up.

Sil Dil said:

I have read and understand your argument against that Pada, but what can I say, my intuition pleads with me to disagree.

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Intuition isn't an acceptable standard of evidence, it's important you understand that, and why.

Sil Dil said:

even the most faithful of Christians have many doubts like all humans must, any one person is subject to change in thier belief if the right circumstances are put before them.

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I think I would disagree with you there. I have honestly never seen a Christian (or person of another faith) denounce their faith personally. Every atheist I know was an atheist before I knew them, was agnostic, or was never really religious to begin with. I have never seen a fully religious devout believer leave Christianity. I've sat down and spoken to a few personal friends who are devout and gotten into all the paradox's and inconsistencies with their religion and these people are set in stone. Reality doesn't seem to matter. Reality is whatever God says it is.

Sil Dil said:

To me this question comes down to the fact that I beleive the most powerful human tool is logic and both the existence and non-existence of a God are conclusions that posses at least some degree of logic. It's simply up to each human to decide which of the two is more logical because obviosuly only one option is correct.

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What logic do you see in the existence of God? How is it logical?

Sil Dil said:

My question in response is, why does it matter? Should the existence or non-existence of a God determine the manner in which we live our lives? Isnt morality rational? Cant we agree that God or no God the purpose of life is happiness? And honestly is God even a good excuse to tame the fear of death? You die and there is a God, you presumably go to the afterlife (which may not even be true, who says an all powerful God dosent choose to end the cycle of every individual life at death?) and if you die and there is no God you literally do not even concieve it. What is the massive fuss over the God debate?

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I always find it interesting this gets brought up.. Dude, take a few glances around the world right now. Organized religion... "the God debate"... is ruining our planet.

Maybe some fancy PowerPoint presentation with a cool
Animation of a Angel spanking it to CP.
Oh and a loud booming voice from above
Announcing PPV times of the child molesting
Priests doing their daily pineapple up their ass thing

That would get my attention as a start

Just kidding, I am God, but it's a secrete

Then God himself proclaiming that the last
Thing he wants is people killing each other in
His name!! For fucks sake!!

I've said this before....this is good vs evil at work here. Faith vs Science. The Devil obviously controls this world. Media, War/Politics. Everything we see day to day. Science, yeah its great. All science has given us...is disease, and tv. and microwave. and more stuff to go with the tv. making us dependent. The vast majority of the people on this planet(honestly, including me right now) wouldnt survive if it wasnt for all those things. What if we had spent the scientific age trying to discover God...instead of nukes. Bombs, guns, things only aimed at CONTROL. Do you think a world ruled by our Creator would be like that? But rejoice....we will all have our days of glory. But I have no 'scientifically' proven documents or a NASA paper signed by a NERD.

You see I put Faith before Science. I trust it more than our corrupt gvt(dont disagree..you all know thats true) who pushes science. Mass production of genetically altered foods? Who does that shit??

And if I'm wrong? Well, then we have all wasted TONSSSS of time through the ages talking about something this silly.. We could have been doing whatever we wanted our whole lives. And still end up 6ft.

nj10ii said:

Then God himself proclaiming that the last
Thing he wants is people killing each other in
His name!! For fucks sake!!

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Our false image of God proclaims that now...

IregAt420 said:

I've said this before....this is good vs evil at work here. Faith vs Science. The Devil obviously controls this world. Media, War/Politics. Everything we see day to day. Science, yeah its great. All science has given us...is disease, and tv. and microwave. and more stuff to go with the tv. making us dependent. The vast majority of the people on this planet(honestly, including me right now) wouldnt survive if it wasnt for all those things. What if we had spent the scientific age trying to discover God...instead of nukes. Bombs, guns, things only aimed at CONTROL. Do you think a world ruled by our Creator would be like that? But rejoice....we will all have our days of glory. But I have no 'scientifically' proven documents or a NASA paper signed by a NERD.

You see I put Faith before Science. I trust it more than our corrupt gvt(dont disagree..you all know thats true) who pushes science. Mass production of genetically altered foods? Who does that shit??

And if I'm wrong? Well, then we have all wasted TONSSSS of time through the ages talking about something this silly.. We could have been doing whatever we wanted our whole lives. And still end up 6ft.

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thas a right don cha know.. it be Dat Debil an him mischeef....


lmao...

can never go back its like the day i found out dad was santa clause,as far as the believers go i would never try to influence anyone one way or the other nor would i tell a child there is no santa

IregAt420 said:

You see I put Faith before Science.

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sweeet, i've got a bridge to sell you my friend, lol.

If there is a magic man in the sky who knows everything, then he knows exactly what it would take to convince me of his existence. He also knows what it would take to convince every other skeptic in the world. The fact that i don't believe means that either god is either non-existent or an asshole.

As an added benefit, that first sentence is a get out of awkward conversation free card whenever grandma starts in on it.

lol, now I remember why I kept away from this side of the forums...You guys have your science, and when we come back, you just give smart ass answers. You cant explain something and it makes you all feel like, oh we cat see it/feel it etc..so ITS NOT THERE. I'm sure the cavemen didnt think of atoms, but they existed and they couldnt see them. Maybe we just havent gotten that far yet...and its sad that you all have given up so fast.