Northern Lights X BB auto & Speed Devil auto

They have N, but small amounts and I'm not using a lot of fertilizer anyway. 1/4 tsp is the smallest dose you're supposed to give and that's meant for every watering. I should of said "N heavy fertilizer". Only reason it's more green at the bottom is because every time I water I usually pull off the 6-7 leaves that are yellow, the bottom of my plant is pretty bare. They're usually just about as yellow as the worst one you see in the pics, but they don't stay attached, which is why I was surprised the top leaves didn't fall off. There are a good number of leaves that are yellow at the bottom/middle when I don't remove them, but they're already dead at that point so no point in leaving them on.

Just going off of this: https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/488004-guide-nutrient-deficiency-toxicity.html, but it doesn't look like P(green on the tips, not in the center, no brown(that was from cal def)), no green center of the leaves like K and it really doesn't look like a mag def. I've got plenty of lime so I'm fine on cal and mag should be fine too. It's possible it's a cal lockout(I did add a lot of lime), but I think a mag lockout would stop cal intake, which is fine.

Also I did mean inside out(it's still morning), the yellowing is starting in the middle of the leaves and working it's way out, creating a yellow leaf with green tips and then progressing to an entirely yellow leaf.

Cloudz2600 said:

They have N, but small amounts and I'm not using a lot of fertilizer anyway. 1/4 tsp is the smallest dose you're supposed to give and that's meant for every watering. I should of said "N heavy fertilizer". Only reason it's more green at the bottom is because every time I water I usually pull off the 6-7 leaves that are yellow, the bottom of my plant is pretty bare. They're usually just about as yellow as the worst one you see in the pics, but they don't stay attached, which is why I was surprised the top leaves didn't fall off. There are a good number of leaves that are yellow at the bottom/middle when I don't remove them, but they're already dead at that point so no point in leaving them on.

Just going off of this: https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/488004-guide-nutrient-deficiency-toxicity.html, but it doesn't look like P(green on the tips, not in the center, no brown(that was from cal def)), no green center of the leaves like K and it really doesn't look like a mag def. I've got plenty of lime so I'm fine on cal and mag should be fine too. It's possible it's a cal lockout(I did add a lot of lime), but I think a mag lockout would stop cal intake, which is fine.

Also I did mean inside out(it's still morning), the yellowing is starting in the middle of the leaves and working it's way out, creating a yellow leaf with green tips and then progressing to an entirely yellow leaf.

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Yea I was thinking the mag actually locked out cal or iron. I believe mag can lock out other nutes too though? I need to do more research on nutrient abundance and deficiency to be sure, but I thought I saw that mentioned. I didn't realize you were having to pull so many leaves from the bottom. Sounds a lot like what was happening to my skunk...but I think I had a p and K deficiency...had green veins and necrosis on the edges of some leaves. What messes me up is that the deficiencies end up changing....like moving from N to mag...can be hard to keep track of wtf is going on!

NL has been painfully fickle from the start. I'll probably chalk it up it bad genetics/pheno. I guess I'll know in a few days(if 2 cap fulls was enough) if it was N or not.

How did you get your fans to stay in place? I'm just a little bit uneven on one side, but have been using tape stuck to the outside to stick to the edges of the fans. It's been falling out of place lately though.

Cloudz2600 said:

NL has been painfully fickle from the start. I'll probably chalk it up it bad genetics/pheno. I guess I'll know in a few days(if 2 cap fulls was enough) if it was N or not.

How did you get your fans to stay in place? I'm just a little bit uneven on one side, but have been using tape stuck to the outside to stick to the edges of the fans. It's been falling out of place lately though.

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Yea she has been giving you problems from the start huh? Well this is your first grow, I still think you did a kick ass job...and you did much better than me in how you've been able to stay away from sampling the SHIT out of the plants lmao. When you ask about the fans, do you mean the intake and exhaust? I cut little velcro squares and placed them on the four corners of the fans, and then put some on the corners of the openings... that keeps them in place very well.

Did you really sample that much lol. It's pretty hard not to sample anymore after that first one. I know if I wait 3 more days I'll be much better off though...3 long days...

Yea, I meant the intake and exhaust. Velcro is actually a very good idea. You can still take the fans out easily I bet too.

Cloudz2600 said:

Did you really sample that much lol. It's pretty hard not to sample anymore after that first one. I know if I wait 3 more days I'll be much better off though...3 long days...

Yea, I meant the intake and exhaust. Velcro is actually a very good idea. You can still take the fans out easily I bet too.

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You have no idea how much I sampled LOL...several branches from each plant. We'll never know how many tops I could have had . I stopped counting how many branches I took after the 3rd...couldn't stand the guilt of knowing exactly how much lol!!

Yup, velcro makes it really easy to take the fans off and put them on. I am a velcro convert! I bought a roll from walmart and have found all kinds of uses for it. Ended up securing my scrog screen with velcro and zip ties!

Decided I'm going to go with the BS180. 130w actual draw so it's a little on the weak side, but I'm worried I won't be able to keep the plants a foot or lower and the BS240 will bleach the plants by being too close. They say keep it 10-14" away from the canopy and my bin is 2'9" in height. I can add a pair of 42w bulbs on each side if I'm lacking light. And it's $50 less than the 240 so I can "save" enough to get the Neptune's Harvest line and maybe something for a proper SCROG net.

Hmm on second thought the pot I have now is 8" tall and the plant is about 1 1/2(after I stopped LSTing)...I might be able to keep it away if I get a long/wide bed and do a good job at LST/SCROG...hmm hard choice.

Cloudz2600 said:

Decided I'm going to go with the BS180. 130w actual draw so it's a little on the weak side, but I'm worried I won't be able to keep the plants a foot or lower and the BS240 will bleach the plants by being too close. They say keep it 10-14" away from the canopy and my bin is 2'9" in height. I can add a pair of 42w bulbs on each side if I'm lacking light. And it's $50 less than the 240 so I can "save" enough to get the Neptune's Harvest line and maybe something for a proper SCROG net.

Hmm on second thought the pot I have now is 8" tall and the plant is about 1 1/2(after I stopped LSTing)...I might be able to keep it away if I get a long/wide bed and do a good job at LST/SCROG...hmm hard choice.

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Yea...you might be able to get away with it with good LST / Scrog...

Don't do it. Don't get it.. Keep looking or u will be disappointed just like every other grower who jumps right into led growing then fails and automatically looks down on LED. I recommended you keep looking, if money is a issue then save and wait. Just my two cents from the state of California

LED is retarded expensive. Unless I was a caregiver I def would not buy a panel. No way to recoup the cost.

foreverflyhi said:

Don't do it. Don't get it.. Keep looking or u will be disappointed just like every other grower who jumps right into led growing then fails and automatically looks down on LED. I recommended you keep looking, if money is a issue then save and wait. Just my two cents from the state of California

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Money isn't an issue, space and stealth is. I don't live in a MMJ state. I can't buy a tent because it screams "I grow pot." I'm losing my walk in closet when I move, so I'll have to just use it for clothes. I could buy the PG180, but it will likely be too powerful unless I figure out how to keep it a good distance away from the canopy. So I'm either stuck with CFLs because I can keep them 2-3" from the tops or a weaker powered LED that won't bleach my plants. Unless you have an alternative for someone who doesn't live in a MMJ state, needs stealth and doesn't plan to ever grow more than 2 plants, but usually just 1.

Flaming Pie said:

LED is retarded expensive. Unless I was a caregiver I def would not buy a panel. No way to recoup the cost.

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Besides the high initial cost LEDs are great compared to CFLs/HID. Lower energy useage, which means less chance of the electric company snooping. Doesn't create hot spots on a radar like HID does. It's a shit ton cooler than both so I can't have to worry about cooling when the temps get to 105F in the summer. Also you recoup the cost on the amount of energy you're saving compared to something of similar wattage, besides the other reasons.

tip top toker said:

Define "worth it"..

Are things like reduced power bills and lower heat output, which as such potentially lower your risk of being busted, included in the notion of "worth it"?

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https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/548455-led-worth.html

Cloudz2600 said:

Besides the high initial cost LEDs are great compared to CFLs/HID. Lower energy useage, which means less chance of the electric company snooping. Doesn't create hot spots on a radar like HID does. It's a shit ton cooler than both so I can't have to worry about cooling when the temps get to 105F in the summer. Also you recoup the cost on the amount of energy you're saving compared to something of similar wattage, besides the other reasons.

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Interesting note...a HID (let's say 400w) won't make the electric company come snooping. More than likely, it could pass as a new gaming system or stereo. As for hot spots...did you know the police have to have a warrant to check your home for hotspots much like a warrant to enter your house? If they have a warrant, you're probably fucked anyway. Radars are usually used to detect massive ops, they're looking for the front page drug busts...not a stoner with a couple plants . As for cooling, my tent runs cooler than my closet AND bin. 400w of MH is running cooler than 380w of CFL!! And I recently read an article that said watt for watt, HID is cooler. Since the high temps have broke, my tent runs at a steady 79 degrees...and that's with one of the cheapest 6in inline fans you can get...not to mention, I have one AC unit cooling my house on energy saver settings, no central air . Not trying to convince you to go HID but wanted to clear things up because I thought exactly the same as you before I decided to buy one. I have seen a few people running 150-200w HIDs in cooltubes with virtually no heat....plants touching the glass and all. And they are used in cabs smaller than our bins! I will try to find a link or two for you if you care to see them.

EDIT: Almost forgot...someone relayed to me that it is an exaggeration that LEDs run with virtually no heat. This guy complained to me about his blackstar claiming that he was having heat issues despite expecting a drastic heat reduction compared to HID.

Well getting a tent isn't an option to start with. Landlord takes the out of sight out of mind approach, but not much out of sight if I have a tent in a room. He says he usually just does monthly visits to make sure everything is working, I'm not running a drug cartel from his house, etc. So getting an inline fan isn't an option either. Watt for watt HID is probably cooler with a cool tube. To be fair I doubt it's cooler by itself.

A link or two would be cool though. Haven't seen a lot of 150-200w HID grows and definitely not in smaller cabs than ours. Seems people usually start with 250.

Cloudz2600 said:

Well getting a tent isn't an option to start with. Landlord takes the out of sight out of mind approach, but not much out of sight if I have a tent in a room. He says he usually just does monthly visits to make sure everything is working, I'm not running a drug cartel from his house, etc. So getting an inline fan isn't an option either. Watt for watt HID is probably cooler with a cool tube. To be fair I doubt it's cooler by itself.

A link or two would be cool though. Haven't seen a lot of 150-200w HID grows and definitely not in smaller cabs than ours. Seems people usually start with 250.

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Yea, I understand about the tent...I meant HID inside the bins though. Small wattage HIDs are easy as hell to cool, you just use computer fans like you would for CFLs. Have you consider converting a wooden cabinet / wardrobe / locker in order to get more vertical while maintaining stealth? Only ask because you said money isn't an object .

Actually remember reading that HID is cooler watt for watt versus CFLs without a cooltube being mentioned... I wish I could find where I read it, but I got in an argument with someone in favor of CFLs a while back and they had linked it to me lol. So if you have a 400w actual watt CFL it will run hotter than a 400w HPS. This guy named 'Exploring' explains the whole 'CFLs run cooler than HID' better than I do: "You can have more heat, spread out over a larger area [with CFLs]. It's the same premise the heatsink in your computer works on. The CPU puts out however many watts of heat, and then the heatsink wicks it away and distributes it out over a larger surface area so it's easier to cool. Imagine how much surface area a 400 (actual) watt CFL would have! The 65 watt bulbs are bigger than a 1000W HID as it is."

I have much better temps with the 400w in my tent than I did with 380w in the bins...even when I ran the 400w without the cooltube set up, I had slightly cooler temps versus the 380w of CFL for much more lumens. I have heard other people switching from comparable watts of CFL to HID say the same thing. I know I am not using the same exact space so that can attribute for the variation, but it goes to show how much people exaggerate the heat from HID. It is also interesting to me that during our 'heatwave' here in the south, my tent ran 81-84 on average while my box 15 feet away with only 280w of CFL ran at 90+ degrees. As you know, I ended up shutting down the bin and moving everything to the tent! I love my bin, and it really surprised me that the tent did so much better. I expected plants that burn easily and high temps...not at all!

Anyway, here are some links:

https://www.rollitup.org/stealth-micro-cab-growing/532936-crazytrains-stealth-150w-hps-dresser.html

https://www.rollitup.org/harvesting-curing/537407-150w-hps-fruity-chronic-juice.html

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/106339-150w-hps-club-inspirational-resource.html - lots of people using hps in small spaces posted tons of pages of pics here. On the first page is a rubbermaid one lol.


[video=youtube_share;iO6yL16JtN4]http://youtu.be/iO6yL16JtN4[/video]

A 23w bulb costs roughly $1/month to power.
Therefore, a 250w would be around $12 or so. A 400w would be areound $17/month. NO electric company would be snooping for that. No worries.
Dollar for dollar, HID is unbeatable.

Links look promising. I'll give em a good read in a few. Money isn't really an object(to a limit ofc), but I hate DIY stuff. I'm not an organized person when it comes to building stuff so my area gets messy, then I get pissed because I can't find something, then I realized I didn't need it anyway, etc, etc. Building the bin was the absolute worst so I can only guess what messing with wood would be like.

No doubt your tent is probably cooler. The light is higher than the CFL lights and closer I imagine to the fans. You also have much more CFM than you did with 2 PC fans with a cool tube and an inline fan, I'm guessing.

I guess I'll look into low wattage HIDs.

1,337 posts Kindney ^_^

So just wondering, but how loud is a cool tube? Also how many inches do I need for a 150w? The deal you got on your setup was pretty nice Lady. Does that seller still have them for sale? Link?

Not really an update, just an observation. Most of the hairs on the Northern Light have receded. Same with Blue Mammoth except for this one top. Looks kind of like it's fox tailing. Each of the calyxes have swelled up and starting putting out more white pistils. Yellowing is more obvious on both plants. I'm less than three days from harvest so I don't see it being that much of an issue. I'll just stop trying to fix it and water with molasses. Not sure how I feel about harvesting the top half of the Northern Lights and waiting till next thursday for the rest. Guess it was an update >.<

Oh Lady I was looking at cool tubes and they don't have a built in fan. So I'm guessing I need to buy one. What type of fan do I use for a cool tube?

Cloudz2600 said:

Links look promising. I'll give em a good read in a few. Money isn't really an object(to a limit ofc), but I hate DIY stuff. I'm not an organized person when it comes to building stuff so my area gets messy, then I get pissed because I can't find something, then I realized I didn't need it anyway, etc, etc. Building the bin was the absolute worst so I can only guess what messing with wood would be like.

No doubt your tent is probably cooler. The light is higher than the CFL lights and closer I imagine to the fans. You also have much more CFM than you did with 2 PC fans with a cool tube and an inline fan, I'm guessing.

I guess I'll look into low wattage HIDs.

1,337 posts Kindney ^_^

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Ah ok, I didn't realize you disliked DIY...you are right though, the bins are a bit of a hassle lol. I could understand you not feeling like making a whole different set up.

My light isn't really that much higher and it's much farther from the fan. The advantage with cooltubes is that they take the heat straight from the bulb instead of you having to circulate the air inside to properly cool lighting. With the 200w CFL, it is advised you keep it 4 inches away...the cooltube is 8 inches away from the plants. I could have it even closer but I leave it higher since I want to spread the light to the plants on the outside too. My next upgrade will probably be another 400 so I can get better coverage.

I took these pics just for you







I don't know if you remember, but I used this same exact inline fan for ventilation in my closet with the 200w CFL + two 40 watt CFLs and struggled with 90+ degree temps just like my bin. I had to leave the door propped open just to keep the closet 85-88 degrees. Tent still runs cooler than the closet with CFLs and the door propped open.

Cloudz2600 said:

So just wondering, but how loud is a cool tube? Also how many inches do I need for a 150w? The deal you got on your setup was pretty nice Lady. Does that seller still have them for sale? Link?

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The cool tube itself doesn't make any sound. The only sound you have is from the inline fan. Mine is not quiet lol...but it was cheap and I don't mind the noise. It is comparable to the noise the AC makes when it comes on or just slightly louder than a large oscillating fan. I don't notice it anymore...and I often sleep in the same room as it. Paid 29 bucks, free shipping, 240 CFM.

For a 150w cool tube, I imagine you could get within inches if I can get a 400w to 8 with no issues at all.

The seller has the light setup I bought here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/180910944111?var=480166603130&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_5881wt_1037

It's dimmable by the way...

I'm so glad you're interested!!! I know you could do some shit with HID....

The fans are called Inline fans or ducting fans. You hook ducting to one end of the cooltube, connect the other end of the duting to the fan, and then connect ducting from your fan to the exhaust opening and it's good to go. Ducting is pretty cheap by the way....I paid 4 bucks for a long piece...wish I could remember how many feet, but it's long enough to run from the bottom of the tent to the top with some left over.