Nutrient companies are stealing our / your money. Lets talk about it!

A

anzohaze

Well-Known Member
pk_boosted2 said:
You def dont know about AN if u think its all synthetics they have complete organic line ups and its a blend of Synthetics and organics..snip..
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the sell a full line of organics but then you say its a blend of synthetic and organic.

Shut the Fuck up. I am with the dr. I feed nothing as I build a heavily amended soil that I reuse and reuse and reuse. I throw a handful of kelp and a random handful of this or that once maybe 2 times per grow and I use water that's it.. I actually walk into my room with a garden hose hooked up to my catalytic carbon filter and water. Takes me about 5 minutes to water. Turn on water walk it room apply water walk out and done no pH pens ppm meters or bottles. What's easier and grade a smoke and best of all no chemicals
 
A

Alan1313

Member
anzohaze said:
the sell a full line of organics but then you say its a blend of synthetic and organic.

Shut the Fuck up. I am with the dr. I feed nothing as I build a heavily amended soil that I reuse and reuse and reuse. I throw a handful of kelp and a random handful of this or that once maybe 2 times per grow and I use water that's it.. I actually walk into my room with a garden hose hooked up to my catalytic carbon filter and water. Takes me about 5 minutes to water. Turn on water walk it room apply water walk out and done no pH pens ppm meters or bottles. What's easier and grade a smoke and best of all no chemicals
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AN is crap - Salt based product line that tastes horrible most of the time cuz its not flushed right.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
@Uncle Ben
I would enjoy your comment on this !!

and this



Yes, they have an organic line.....so? It's still a bottled nutrient. I can do better without it for FAR less $ !! AND, as soon as it's synthetic and organic mixed,,,,,,,it sure as hell ain't organic any more!!!!!

So you have a hydro store eh?
You sure seem to want to push 2 of the most expensive synthetics out there......Not selling as well as you would like?
Don't like Hesi?
Or is it more like you don't sell it/haven't tried it!

Doc
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He's a misguided sucker bet. As long as you have the 13 necessary elements for hydro and the typical 9 or so for soil, any plant food will do. A fool and his money are soon departed.

Regarding the rather comical subject title, there are no victims, only volunteers.
 
C

CC Dobbs

Well-Known Member
pk_boosted2 said:
To answer ur question easily. Companies like AN developed a lineup so u can create ur nutrient profile specific to the needs of individual strains. They also have nutrients in so many bottles bcuz they understand that in order to have direct control of ur grows u need to be able to use certain amounts of macro and micro nutrients and other elements bcuz every strain grows differently

There isnt just one bottle of anything that can provide all of the needs of ur plants so they provide everything u need to use in each form so u can apply them as needed.

Also AN nutrients r chelated and broken down to the best possible form for plant uptake. U cant provide everything in one bottle bcuz if u tried to the solutions would become suspended and separate and wouldnt work properly. Therefore they put them in different solutions and suspensions so u can deliver them to ur plants for optimal growth and production. AN is a very reputable company and their products are some of the best in class in each specific area they target.

U also dont need to use "15" bottles of anything to get good results. They simply offer and can provide them as u need them.

All u need from AN to get good results is one of their bases which are very inexpensive bcuz they r not only highly concentrated but also chelated for optimal uptake. They last a very long time as u dont need much of them to provide all essential elements for ur plants.

So after u get their bases all u need to grow is 4 things:
Voodoo Juice
B-52
Big Bud
Overdrive

The other products they offer are simply for piece of mind and for optimal results.
Rhino Skin - Mag and Silicates
Piranaha & Tarantula - Bene's & Microbes
Bud Candy - carbohydrates

I use most of their lineup for my grows and I can promise you and anyone else that it is well worth the money. Not only do you get superb quality flowers but they produce massive yields and huge flowers!!

I also like Canna and I think that is the best on the market all around and easiest to use. The whole lineup is only 5 things:
*Bases (a&b)
*Canna-Boost (Best product of its kind and is by far best Bloom Enhancer on the market it is 2nd to none) many companies try to make their own version but nothing comes close.. It is most exp partof the lineup but is by far the best on the market hands down!!
*PK 13:14
*Cannazyme
**** Only thing I recommend adding is the H&G Roots Excellurator which is the best product of its kind on the market for root innoculation and enhancement period.

If u wanna go cheaper route but give up final yield but focus on quality I recommend Botanicare Pure Blend Pro Series
Its easy to use. Comes w one base that works very well as a stand alone nutrient without needing kuch of anything else and it is very inexpensive.

I run the Veg & Bloom
Cal-Mag
Silicate
Hydroplex
H&G Roots Excel.
Atami Bloombastic
Sweet Raw Natural
And I average 1.5-1.75 per 1000w lamp. That being said I do get less overall yield but the quality of the flowers: smell, taste, aroma and potency is right up their with AN & Canna.

As far as GO 3-Part although the bases r very inexpensive the plants in order to get great results u still need to substitute other amendments and supplements to maximize yield and quality. Its a synthetic nutrient and doesnt produce the falvors aromas and consistency I find in AN, Canna or Botanicare; but I do know many big time growers who love the 3-Part bcuz it is cheap and easy to use. The only down side for me as mentioned is quality and yield, without alot of other by products it not in the top tier of nutrient bases available on market I consider it to be bottom tier or mid-tier nutrient as a whole.

I do like the GO General Organic line up though. Its alot of bottles and is priced fairly but it provides some very nice quality flowers without sacrificing alot of yield either. All around its great product if u wanna go organic and price is fairly reasonable.

As ppl mention IMO Dyna-Gro, Jack's, Humboldt County, Dutch Masters, Atami are bottom of the barrel nutrients. They dont produce good yields, the quality is terrible, and aroma and flavor is awful. Since these products are primarily pure synthetics that is a given. If u dont have $$ any of them will work as they are cheap as the dirt u use but I would never use any of them to grow at all.

In this business ur input is as only good as ur output. Meaning you pay for what u get. So go with #1 Canna #2 Adv Nutrients #3 H&G #4 Botanicare #5 Complete Nutrients (new product very good all around nutrients - combination between AN and Canna - but very expensive and not as good as either of those companies as its a "knock-off" brand.

Ppl can argue all they want there is a reason that Canna - AN and Botanicare are the leading MJ nutrients in the world. You pay for what you get. When u compare your input (cost up front) for your output "ROI" (return on investment) using any of the mentioned products I use with out perform and of those cheaper products on the market hands down.
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You sound like an cannabis industry salesperson. You could not be further from the truth. The reason people buy the overpriced fertilizers form AN, Canna or who ever is because they don't know how to think for themselves and they depend on these companies to tell them what to do. The amount of money these Fert. companies spend on advertising is enormous and it is all paid for by the idiots who buy there crap. Great business model for profits but they make way-overpriced products and sell them to the uninformed.
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
chuck estevez said:
I grow multiple strains, all with this one bottle, start to finish, ANYTHING made cannabis specific is designed for one thing, to get your $$$$$
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I'm eagerly waiting for my FP to get here. would you mind giving me an idea of how much you use/gallon? i've read somewhere between 1/4 to 1/2 tsp/gal. does that sound right?

once i get mine, i'm gonna use different amounts per gal and kinda get an EC table going. i usually don't go over 1.2EC for previous grows
thanks, rky
 
phil k

phil k

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
Oh, BTW,,,,,No synthetic grown on the top shelf around here.......If I recall correctly,,,,same thing for Phil K's side of the State.

@phil k
Am I right on that Phil?

Doc
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well .... no .... their top shelfs sometimes in some places are chemical grows.. i know for a fact all the shit at peoples choice unless its brought in from other growers USED to be all general hydro GMB line.... then they switched to using that new single package line... 10k or 1G i can't remember the name..BUT there are some guys here changing that shit ...sticky ypsi he's a good younger guy 90% of his shit is straight organic... and he runs a daily deal 45$ a eighth for one strain.. its always good.. but its been a while since I've been there... i actuallyy have a soil customer that provided 2-3 dispensaries specifically with top shelf strawberry sour diesel ... he never touched pure organics till he ran one of our soil runs... honest to god he couldn't believe the change of his grow quality.... id post his message to me but i don't wanna bump myself.
 
phil k

phil k

Well-Known Member
anzohaze said:
the sell a full line of organics but then you say its a blend of synthetic and organic.

Shut the Fuck up. I am with the dr. I feed nothing as I build a heavily amended soil that I reuse and reuse and reuse. I throw a handful of kelp and a random handful of this or that once maybe 2 times per grow and I use water that's it.. I actually walk into my room with a garden hose hooked up to my catalytic carbon filter and water. Takes me about 5 minutes to water. Turn on water walk it room apply water walk out and done no pH pens ppm meters or bottles. What's easier and grade a smoke and best of all no chemicals
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:o:hump:

down with chemicals up with people who understand how to amend soil!
 
phil k

phil k

Well-Known Member
i hope PK knows high time just got called out for their BEST IN HYDRO they were taking extra moola from the larger companies to put their lines and shit in the articles... i don't think anyones even begging to comprehend not only what your paying for but what your actually getting. and what these companies are making in order to keep you thinking they are the best. more over if you did know damn near anything about growing... plants... plants biology ... nutrient uptake.. how your nutrients are utilized and why... you wouldnt be that guy who thinks a 600$ chemical line makes your grow better than anyone else.... when in reality yours is much much worse.. your feeding chemicals made from salts and metals that leave massive salt deposit and me talk waste in your soil...

hell you hydro and chemical guys are the reason for spider mites... they are attracted and feed off the waste from your chemicals that sits in your media... i havent dealt with bugs in i don't know how damn long years... up years since i started 100% true organic growing with no chemicals ever.

the only bug we ever get is soil gnats and they only come when you don't know how to water a plant. ... or hell you can amend diatomaceous earth into the soil and fix it too...... screw chemicals...
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
phil k said:
well .... no .... their top shelfs sometimes in some places are chemical grows.. i know for a fact all the shit at peoples choice unless its brought in from other growers USED to be all general hydro GMB line.... then they switched to using that new single package line... 10k or 1G i can't remember the name..BUT there are some guys here changing that shit ...sticky ypsi he's a good younger guy 90% of his shit is straight organic... and he runs a daily deal 45$ a eighth for one strain.. its always good.. but its been a while since I've been there... i actuallyy have a soil customer that provided 2-3 dispensaries specifically with top shelf strawberry sour diesel ... he never touched pure organics till he ran one of our soil runs... honest to god he couldn't believe the change of his grow quality.... id post his message to me but i don't wanna bump myself.
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Well there's an honest answer!

For the 3 others I go into (just to chat with the operator/owners). They over here have gone to only organic top shelf by customer response to products available....There is a good core group of longtime organic only growers. We have a "Co-op" together. It took me a few years to be invited in, because of my synthetic experiments and testing of products for shop owners.....Eventually they came to understand it was just that....Unknown to me I ran into one at a gardening supply and he saw me buying my soil building components in bulk....That changed minds and for years we have been friends. These are the only other guys that make the top shelf around here....I mean don't get me wrong. There is (and I do to purchase for mine) synthetic grown mid shelf of good quality and strains! Once in a while, not often. I must admit, That I have to buy a synth grown strain that I do put on my top shelf.....I liked it that much. It does sell.....But I can turn "organic" faster.

There are a cpl of other disp. that "specialize" in lower quality stuff that lacks even bag appeal.....$10gr. stores. I haven't been in but once.

phil k said:
hell you hydro and chemical guys are the reason for spider mites... they are attracted and feed off the waste from your chemicals that sits in your media... i havent dealt with bugs in i don't know how damn long years... up years since i started 100% true organic growing with no chemicals ever.

the only bug we ever get is soil gnats and they only come when you don't know how to water a plant. ... or hell you can amend diatomaceous earth into the soil and fix it too...... screw chemicals...
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Interesting idea,,,,,I'm not sure that is exactly it...but,
I know that a stressed plant will give off a scent (pheromone) that actually attracts mites.....I now that Merit 7 (BAD insecticide) will make a plant increase the output of the pheromone. With that said, What do you think happens when you use it on just a few plants in a grow?.....The other plants must want to hide in fear - LOL.
 
chuck estevez

chuck estevez

Well-Known Member
rkymtnman said:
I'm eagerly waiting for my FP to get here. would you mind giving me an idea of how much you use/gallon? i've read somewhere between 1/4 to 1/2 tsp/gal. does that sound right?

once i get mine, i'm gonna use different amounts per gal and kinda get an EC table going. i usually don't go over 1.2EC for previous grows
thanks, rky
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I run between 500 to 800 ppm every watering
 
pk_boosted2

pk_boosted2

Well-Known Member
CC Dobbs said:
You sound like an cannabis industry salesperson. You could not be further from the truth. The reason people buy the overpriced fertilizers form AN, Canna or who ever is because they don't know how to think for themselves and they depend on these companies to tell them what to do. The amount of money these Fert. companies spend on advertising is enormous and it is all paid for by the idiots who buy there crap. Great business model for profits but they make way-overpriced products and sell them to the uninformed.
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Im actually highly informed. I just dont sit around and talk sht and tell ppl theres only one way to do shit. Dyna gro and jacks might b great for u. Bcuz its cheap, easy to use and u like ur results. But without using "expensive" bottled nutrients like canna - AN - botanicare etcc. U cant sit here and tell ppl its a rip off when u havent even used it before. I been using canna and AN on and off for a decade. And im primarily using botanicare and my own amendments right now going organic route. But I presonally would never use dyna or jacks. Im not gonna sit here and bash u for doing it nor tell u what to do.

Im simply stating my personal experience being that I use these nutrients and get very good results.

And at the end of the day, I run 8 (1000w) in my grow room right now and I pay roughly 1100$ per run between veg (5/6 week) and bloom (9/10 week). So per light im spending ov average 120$ we'll call it. And im able to get back ov average 2 lbs of medicine. As a caregiver that means I am paying 60$ per pound of premium medicine that I can get anywhere from 3-3800$ per pound depending on market, strain and time of year.

So the cost analysis doesnt make sense that someone is to tell me that nutrients are expensive when I have never found any nutrients to be expensive when u compare ur input to output.

Now maybe if ur a personal grower doing a closet or 1 light yr round, maye than it makes sense to u to try get cheapest shit u can. But products such as dyna and jacks which are lab madr synthetic salts. That shit doesnt compare to the quality or yield imma get running bio canna or botanicare. Ur talkin to someone who knows personally. As ive used and or know my buddies who have and the shit doesnt compare to anything I produce on any level. Not even the savings when comparing the 2. We can argue all day about it. But I feel im right so its not an argument anyone is gonna win against me per say. BOL
 
pk_boosted2

pk_boosted2

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
Well there's an honest answer!

For the 3 others I go into (just to chat with the operator/owners). They over here have gone to only organic top shelf by customer response to products available....There is a good core group of longtime organic only growers. We have a "Co-op" together. It took me a few years to be invited in, because of my synthetic experiments and testing of products for shop owners.....Eventually they came to understand it was just that....Unknown to me I ran into one at a gardening supply and he saw me buying my soil building components in bulk....That changed minds and for years we have been friends. These are the only other guys that make the top shelf around here....I mean don't get me wrong. There is (and I do to purchase for mine) synthetic grown mid shelf of good quality and strains! Once in a while, not often. I must admit, That I have to buy a synth grown strain that I do put on my top shelf.....I liked it that much. It does sell.....But I can turn "organic" faster.

There are a cpl of other disp. that "specialize" in lower quality stuff that lacks even bag appeal.....$10gr. stores. I haven't been in but once.



Interesting idea,,,,,I'm not sure that is exactly it...but,
I know that a stressed plant will give off a scent (pheromone) that actually attracts mites.....I now that Merit 7 (BAD insecticide) will make a plant increase the output of the pheromone. With that said, What do you think happens when you use it on just a few plants in a grow?.....The other plants must want to hide in fear - LOL.
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I dont care how much medicine anyone smokes per day. U cant tell which was done synthetic vs organic i dint care what bs u try to spew. The only ppl who know r the dispensaries bcuz they test for the shit so they can give it to their patients who request or only want something that was organically cultivated.

The place i provide medicine for has a lab that breaks all that shit down and can even tell u the amount of specific nutrients remaining in ur plants.

The customers wouldnt know if there was a blind taste test whether or not it was organic or synthetic and I know I cudnt for a fact. Only thing u cud do is guess by the smell and possibly the color of the flowers whether or not u went organic or syntheticand even then it wud b nothing more than an educated guess at best.
 
pk_boosted2

pk_boosted2

Well-Known Member
On top of that fact on pricing. This is with a drain to waste system in coco.

If u are running DWC - AERO or hydroponics setup the cost probably be roughly have of that since u wont need nearly as many nutrients.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Your right. Dispensaries can tell by the testing! When I get test's back and talk to the testers....they can even tell me (A lot of the time) what brand of nutrient someone used......Even I have learned to tell for the most part.....
I can Guar-en-fuck'in-tee that most of my customers and especially patient's can tell the difference!
 
pk_boosted2

pk_boosted2

Well-Known Member
Matter of fact recently in the past month or so there have been a few people who have done tests on 4 plants per light under 6 (1000w) lights and in one case the dude ran 1 type of nutrient per light every 4 plants.

Dyna gro came in dead last regardingyield and quality.

You can find the write up on vutra.org and it was well documented and filled with a ton of information on what he did and how he ran the experiment.

I believe AN - Canna and Earth Juice were 1/2/3 in that order.

Theres also someone else on another forum who did a similar test using: DG - AN - Canna - Botanicare and H&G
They also had similar results with Dyna Gro being in dead last regarding yield and quality with extensive write ups.

And theres a well known MJ dude on youtube who did side by sides of DG - AN - Canna and Heavy 16.

And u can watch from start to finish with final weighs in and up close shots and DG dont even hold a candle to the rest of them.

I been doin this for long time I know what works and I know when ppl copy n paste bs that other ppl say and wanna speak like they know wsp. Anyone who uses DG or Jacks is an amateur and not a serious grower.

Im not talkin mom n pop closet grows for personal use. Im talkin big dog lights and grows. DG is not good products theres alot better out there. Its just cheap and it works
 
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