Oaksterdam t-5 veg 600w hps flower

theloadeddragon said:

I use water to "water in" when feeding. Don't have to ph it at all. I do test the ph of the feeding solution before feeding, and the runoff as I water in.... always ends up at 6-6.6 its the TDS that really fluctuates

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what's tds?

Drella said:

what's tds?

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TDS = Total Dissolved Solids...
measure in EC (electro-conductivity) or PPM (parts per million)

Someguy15 said:

TDS = Total Dissolved Solids...
measure in EC (electro-conductivity) or PPM (parts per million)

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how do you test that? do you test the soil/medium, or your feeding solution? what are good testing methods (brands of good meters)

Drella said:

how do you test that? do you test the soil/medium, or your feeding solution? what are good testing methods (brands of good meters)

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In hydro we use PPM or EC meters. You can accomplish the same thing with soil by measuring your runoff EC. By estimating where it is going in, and where it is coming out, you can get an idea of what the average might be. If you put in pure water (~0 EC) and it comes out higher, obviously the nutrients are coming from the soil. I'm not a soil expert tho, my first grow is hydro

Bluelabs Truncheon are like the holy grail, but 140 makes them on the expensive side. I got a cheep HM Digital EC meter that has served me well from amazon for 65.

right on, thanks bro.

theloadeddragon said:

I use water to "water in" when feeding. Don't have to ph it at all. I do test the ph of the feeding solution before feeding, and the runoff as I water in.... always ends up at 6-6.6 its the TDS that really fluctuates

Click to expand...

Someguy15 said:

TDS = Total Dissolved Solids...
measure in EC (electro-conductivity) or PPM (parts per million)

Click to expand...

So are you guys both running hydro? Because I've never heard of anyone that grows in soil (well, anyone that knows what the hell they're doing at least), not Ph'ing their input water. And usually, if using distilled water, you have to raise the Ph to get it into the acceptable range.

I don't know jack about hydro, cause it just doesn't interest me. But I do know soil a little, and this is what I've found to be true. I know Drella's growing in soil. I know if one's growing in soil you can use an EC meter to check your runoff to see how 'hot' your mix is getting from the constant addition of nutrients, but you don't have to...and an EC meter isn't going to tell you jack about your Ph.

I'm just intrigued by the thought of anyone being able to grow anything worth smoking in soil without having to Ph their input water. I guess if you had the perfect storm of tap water Ph and nute Ph drop where it just ended up in the acceptable range it could happen, but I bet that scenario is pretty rare.

d.c. beard said:

So are you guys both running hydro? Because I've never heard of anyone that grows in soil (well, anyone that knows what the hell they're doing at least), not Ph'ing their input water. And usually, if using distilled water, you have to raise the Ph to get it into the acceptable range.

I don't know jack about hydro, cause it just doesn't interest me. But I do know soil a little, and this is what I've found to be true. I know Drella's growing in soil. I know if one's growing in soil you can use an EC meter to check your runoff to see how 'hot' your mix is getting from the constant addition of nutrients, but you don't have to...and an EC meter isn't going to tell you jack about your Ph.

I'm just intrigued by the thought of anyone being able to grow anything worth smoking in soil without having to Ph their input water. I guess if you had the perfect storm of tap water Ph and nute Ph drop where it just ended up in the acceptable range it could happen, but I bet that scenario is pretty rare.

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then my grows make you eat those words.

I have been growing with soil for years and years. I Know my soil well. Always test my water and know my water well. I also know my nutes very well. And the additives I have available were I to need any.

I know how my water and my nutes mix. After testing the ph, TDS, and EC hundreds of times at different strengths using the same practices and materials.... and getting the Same results.

Isn't the difinition of insanity doing the exact same thing over and over again and expecting different results?

I don't need to ph my water before I feed or water now, though at different places I lived in the past I did have to ph it. A bunch of people don't need to, and run into problems because of unnecessary adjustments they make.

A bunch of people do need to ph their water. It all just depends.

theloadeddragon said:

then my grows make you eat those words.

I have been growing with soil for years and years. I Know my soil well. Always test my water and know my water well. I also know my nutes very well. And the additives I have available were I to need any.

I know how my water and my nutes mix. After testing the ph, TDS, and EC hundreds of times at different strengths using the same practices and materials.... and getting the Same results.

Isn't the difinition of insanity doing the exact same thing over and over again and expecting different results?

I don't need to ph my water before I feed or water now, though at different places I lived in the past I did have to ph it. A bunch of people don't need to, and run into problems because of unnecessary adjustments they make.

A bunch of people do need to ph their water. It all just depends.

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Yeah you're right - it all depends, so he should err on the side of caution. Apparently you'd have him watering who knows what into his soil and then just checking the EC afterward?? lol I'm not dissing ya or anything, and I'm sure you grow some good shit too or whatever. But lets not forget that Drella is new to this and he probably doesn't even know what his water's Ph is at the start or how the nutes affect it cause he's not only pretty green at this but also is using a $7 aquarium-style color-coded Ph thing. I was just trying to help him understand the whole Ph thing since most of us actually have to monitor this. If you don't, then that's cool but I wouldn't act like your particular situation is the norm either. If he Ph's his input water like I said, and finds out that nothing has to be done, then he'll be pleasantly surprised. If he doesn't, like you said, then he's rolling the dice and could be very surprised in a much more negative way.

And I checked your pics there LD, I definitely wouldn't say that any of your grow techniques are going to make me eat any of my words. I'm guessing you grew the GDP in the pics? Looks pretty scraggly with a lot of brown dead/burnt leaves. Maybe you SHOULD have checked your Ph after all.... lol

what GDP are you talking about? The pics in my album of the outdoor (its all outdoor in my album, all over a year old as well)? If that is what your talking about..... the end result had very little to do with ph, and a lot more to do with a 1/2 cu. ft air pocket under the huge "pot" it was in. But if you READ through the journal pertaining to it, you would already know that...... lol.....

Obviously, I stated I know my water well, and am well practiced. I also stated that I still have additives were I too need to use them. I have been speaking purely of my growing experience. I have not suggested that Drella do anything at all. I have made an example out of my observations and experiences, as well as commented on what I have seen from other people. I have also pointed out that I checked EC, TDS, ph, etc. up until I felt comfortable not using them anymore..... I still occasionally break out a meter just to make sure..... me, not drella, I can't comment or speculate on what I have such little knowledge about (HIS grow). I offer relative experience and points of view.

so what would I have drella do? Nothing. he does whatever he wants. What I can do though, is explain my experiences etc.

Your comments have been nothing short of insulting, arrogant, and incendiary.

Obviously Drella has learned a lot on his own from my mention of my experiences. The only advice I really have to offer is "it all depends, and its all up to you".

You really want to help him Understand what he's doing..... throw some links up to back up your theories and concepts. Let him explore the sciences etc. involved so he can make up his own damn mind. And putting nute solutions in soils.... depending on the soil, but quite a few of the most popular ones, the ph does go up as water and nutrients are absorbed by the plant, as well as it interacting with the additives such as OISTER SHELL or DOLOMITE LIME etc. etc. that are premixed into the soils (they are called ph adjusters) EC does not directly reflect TDS and vice a vers, which is precisely why there are the two separate measurements you can take.

http://www.tdsmeter.com/what-is?id=0019

http://www.firstrays.com/tds_and_ec.htm

pay close attention, be sure you understand the material being reviewed.

And I am pretty sure he said he was growing in sunshine aggregate soiless mix. Using a completely different nutrient line up than myself.

And cuz Im my once a yr drunk

Im a fuckin Brown Dirt Warrior Drella...... I LOVE the earth....... and my wife

Happy Easter!

i really appreciate DC and LD's help. helping out my green ass! they both help. yeah i bought a fancy manual calibration ph meter for $70. it acted all screwy and would read the ph7 testing water correctly. one of my buddies swear by a auto calibration ph meter, but i've heard you always gotta fuck with them. next grow i will for sure get an auto calibration meter, but i know the dyes don't lie. and a little variance in your ph in soil won't hurt you. also i took DC's advice and i listen to my plants, they haven't yellowed or slow growth since the beginning. my problem is in my head. i cleaned the bucket with soap and water finally that i mix my nutes in. it has never been cleaned, (with veg and bloom nutes in it!) even after, i put a full strength veg nutes and a 1/2tsp of superthrive, the water reads at lik 4.5 ph! i had to use like 3tbsp of ph up. come to think of it, two months ago, when i had those eight males, and i used full strength veg nutes i never had to ph up. i use tap water. this makes me think that's it weather change/tap water ph change, or the addition of superthrive, which i don't know if i used it the first time. either way i get the water to 6.5ph before i feed. any advice, anyone who's used superthrive, or anything is appreciated.

I appreciate the debates on this thread. what i get out of them is a lot of guys giving me all of the information they know. this helps me get the most well rounded help i can get. i don't get help like this from my three brothers, or even some of my closest friends. you guys are like the friend who is there when you're moving and you need help. thanks guys, i am really fortunate to have you, and this site this year. happy new year to you,and you're families. be safe, and for christs sake, no fricken dui's this year!

theloadeddragon said:

And cuz Im my once a yr drunk

Im a fuckin Brown Dirt Warrior Drella...... I LOVE the earth....... and my wife

Happy Easter!

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im a brown dirt warrior too! i also love my wife. i concur, i concur.

d.c. beard said:

So are you guys both running hydro? Because I've never heard of anyone that grows in soil (well, anyone that knows what the hell they're doing at least), not Ph'ing their input water. And usually, if using distilled water, you have to raise the Ph to get it into the acceptable range.

I don't know jack about hydro, cause it just doesn't interest me. But I do know soil a little, and this is what I've found to be true. I know Drella's growing in soil. I know if one's growing in soil you can use an EC meter to check your runoff to see how 'hot' your mix is getting from the constant addition of nutrients, but you don't have to...and an EC meter isn't going to tell you jack about your Ph.

I'm just intrigued by the thought of anyone being able to grow anything worth smoking in soil without having to Ph their input water. I guess if you had the perfect storm of tap water Ph and nute Ph drop where it just ended up in the acceptable range it could happen, but I bet that scenario is pretty rare.

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i always appreciate the input, dc. it's always clearer after you post.

theloadeddragon said:

And putting nute solutions in soils.... depending on the soil, but quite a few of the most popular ones, the ph does go up as water and nutrients are absorbed by the plant, as well as it interacting with the additives such as OISTER SHELL or DOLOMITE LIME etc. etc. that are premixed into the soils (they are called ph adjusters) EC does not directly reflect TDS and vice a vers, which is precisely why there are the two separate measurements you can take.

http://www.tdsmeter.com/what-is?id=0019

http://www.firstrays.com/tds_and_ec.htm

pay close attention, be sure you understand the material being reviewed.

And I am pretty sure he said he was growing in sunshine aggregate soiless mix. Using a completely different nutrient line up than myself.

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thanks for the links they really help.

Bloom day one! i threw the four ladies that are the biggest, (2 quirkel, 1 OGKGC, and 1 hindu kush), in the bloom room today. the lights will go off every day at 9pm. and turn on at 9am. quirkels were 13" and 15". hindu kush was 17" and OGKGC was 20". room temp is set at 75* and 50 humidity. let's see these ladies grow! any help is appreciated, this will be my first real bloom!

Drella said:

Bloom day one! i threw the four ladies that are the biggest, (2 quirkel, 1 OGKGC, and 1 hindu kush), in the bloom room today. the lights will go off every day at 9pm. and turn on at 9am. quirkels were 13" and 15". hindu kush was 17" and OGKGC was 20". room temp is set at 75* and 50 humidity. let's see these ladies grow! any help is appreciated, this will be my first real bloom!

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Congrats on getting to flower time

You're gonna have some trees there; I went 12/12 around those heights last year and ended up with 5-footers. Course, it all depends on strain...

Good luck!

Kriegs said:

Congrats on getting to flower time

You're gonna have some trees there; I went 12/12 around those heights last year and ended up with 5-footers. Course, it all depends on strain...

Good luck!

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thanks bro, yeah im gonna have to tie down some of these ladies for sure! i got some indica and some sativas too!

d.c. beard said:

So are you guys both running hydro? Because I've never heard of anyone that grows in soil (well, anyone that knows what the hell they're doing at least), not Ph'ing their input water. And usually, if using distilled water, you have to raise the Ph to get it into the acceptable range.

I'm just intrigued by the thought of anyone being able to grow anything worth smoking in soil without having to Ph their input water. I guess if you had the perfect storm of tap water Ph and nute Ph drop where it just ended up in the acceptable range it could happen, but I bet that scenario is pretty rare.

Click to expand...

Not that I know what I'm doing, but I never pH my input water for just watering. It comes out of the tap at 8.0. Soils are loaded with both acid and basic buffering. A minor discrepancy like that (in this case, a few extra hydroxide ions) are easily taken up by the soil buffering.

Runoff monitoring of pH out of soil is not completely useless -- it will tell you if you're really out of whack. But you can't get "the pH of your soil" from it -- the true pH of a soil is almost always substantially less than that of the runoff. Reason is, hydrogen ions absorb to the soil and are not released by passing water (thus, a source of unmeasured acidity when doing a runoff measurement).

To me, the best policy is to pre-buffer your soil with dolomite, don't add nutes that aren't needed, and water fully enough that you get runoff out of the bottom and thus, removal of organic wastes and salts from your soil. You should never need to pH anything in that scenario.

Drella said:

Bloom day one! i threw the four ladies that are the biggest, (2 quirkel, 1 OGKGC, and 1 hindu kush), in the bloom room today. the lights will go off every day at 9pm. and turn on at 9am. quirkels were 13" and 15". hindu kush was 17" and OGKGC was 20". room temp is set at 75* and 50 humidity. let's see these ladies grow! any help is appreciated, this will be my first real bloom!

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Frekin Beautiful cant wait to watch these ladys grow bro. you deserve a good crop with all the shit you went through on the first round. This will be the one!! Your patience will pay off. You have some good genetics to work with also!! This should be Good!

Rydub said:

Frekin Beautiful cant wait to watch these ladys grow bro. you deserve a good crop with all the shit you went through on the first round. This will be the one!! Your patience will pay off. You have some good genetics to work with also!! This should be Good!

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thanks rydub, it means a lot coming from you. i've based a lot of my assumtions off of you. these ladies are lollypopped, cuttings taken from them. they were given like four days to bounce back. now, the timer just turned off the a/c and light. only the fan in the room, and the exhaust will run on lights out. i'm so freaking anxious it's not even funny! i really feel like things should work out. the hindu skunk, (the indica that's bushy and doing the best) already popped a bunch of preflower spots just being under the hps for four hours. now they are experiencing their first dark since transplant four weeks ago. this should be great! i'll post pics as soon as i see change which might be really soon!