hom36rown
Well-Known Member
That chart compares GDP w/ national debt. Like I said, the national debt went up every year under clinton.
Obama Haters Unite
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That chart compares GDP w/ national debt. Like I said, the national debt went up every year under clinton.
aceshigh69
Active Member
Probably will get a second term, since all he is doing now is campaining. He is alot better than the dick we had. but He himself is also a political piece of shit . Just like the rest of them. He spends way more money than we have. And we averaged an 8 dollar increase on our checks. Sorry if im not for the annointed one. Black, white, yellow whatever. Help the people of this country. Keep our money here. Dont rebuild what we destroyed overseas. They shouldnt have been talking shit or Killing our people. Drill oil here and tell the Arabs we got our own shit.
We can't use just our own oil, ours is too deep and costs far too much to bring up to the surface. instead the USA will sit on the reserves and use up everyone elses first.
WE are the ones who have been over there for almost 20 years now..killing them, they only defend their land.
WE are the ones who have been over there for almost 20 years now..killing them, they only defend their land.
wow i just wanted to thank you for posting the video. i watched the whole thing and you just made me think more highly of him than i did before. he is a man of peace you must not be
A man of peace huh? Just committed us to at least 6 more years of war, yep that sounds like peace to me.
Twistyman
Well-Known Member
Really... I must have a different CNN than you.. about three weeks ago they showed an anti abortion rally (and before you call me baby killer, I'm not a fan of them but rather abort than bring child up in pain or suffering, or rto a crack mother who the Govt will forget about that "saved" baby) and the shots of the crowd were scary..people/women holding babies screaming obscene things like he deserved to die, it was more like a mulas supreme edict than a political thing..to kill to save killing..what group uses that..Oh ya...terrorists ... thats some good parenting... all that was missing was the women doing that tongue chant they do in the middle east..
I know people who have lived in areas like that... they can't talk about stuff..or be killed..those that are in control can have them killed by just a word.... all thats missing is the "Juden" marked on the front doors of squealers or possible rats... Facism isn't only done by those with funny facial hair.... Look at Busk... clean shaven..and if you don't think that Rove, Rush & Cheney would actually wish DEATH on their opponents your 100% wrong.. their venom to others (differing) beliefs are palpitable.. But being outside the US I only get what the world thinks of the past Govt form world news.. granted I don't get my news from those news paragons of the pulitizer winning "Fox" gang........
sorry had to barf that anyone with one gray brain cell can actually watch that tripe.... fox is the Rights Mein Khampf....only thing is with the book you could use the pages to wipe your ass..... not pay the asses like fox does...
Everyone needs to give Obama a chance. I like the guy. And he got others to like him. Thus why he is president now. The middle class needs to feel impowered at this difficult times. But the middle class needs to change it's ways. There is too much credit out there. This whole economy is messed up because of the middle class and our living beyond our means. My grandfather was a working class man. Worked for the local gas company. My grandmother didn't work, just part time later when the kids where out of the house. But their house was a simple 2 bedroom, one bathroom ranch, and by the time they died, they had just over a million dollars in savings and retirement accounts. Every house you see now a days has to be over 3000 sq. ft. You'd be looked down apon if your home didn't have a masterbath in it.
It used to be you had to put 10-20% down on a home. The average house price is can be $150,000 to $180,000 depending on your area. It's about $160,000 here for something decent. Who here has $32,000 to put down on a house?????? So people are left with a large monthley payment. So they can't afford anything else, so they put everything on credit cards. You see where I'm going here? The middle class is not the middle class our grandparents had or even our own parents. What Obama is trying to do is bridge that gap between lower and upper class. Which everyone is veiwing as socialism. Do any Obama haters even know the definition of socialism? Look it up, we will never be anywhere near it.
Here is another way the middle class is hurting. Both my wife and I had to have surgury recently. I had to have a kneed replacement and she had to have her galbladder taken out. My insurrance has gotten so shittly latley, that my company now has insurrance that has a 20/80 % split on surgurys, which means we had to pay 20% out of pocket. My wifes galbadder cost us out of pocket $4000 and mine cost $5000. We have a savings account that little goes into. And we each have a retirement account. So I'm supposed to have over $10,000 on hand at all times to cover what my health insurrance doesn't? Or are we supposed to stay in pain like a dog? Has anyone heard of a heath insurrance company going bankrupt in this current cris? They have more lawyers then doctors working for them. I should point out that having good, lost cost health care is not living beyond our means. It's a right in this day and age.
The point of my rambling is the middle class runs this economy, not the upper class. The upper class is hurting now too because the middle class is in such disarray. The middle class deserves a stake in the economy, but not have everything handed to them. There has to be a happy medium. But greed will always complicate matters.
It used to be you had to put 10-20% down on a home. The average house price is can be $150,000 to $180,000 depending on your area. It's about $160,000 here for something decent. Who here has $32,000 to put down on a house?????? So people are left with a large monthley payment. So they can't afford anything else, so they put everything on credit cards. You see where I'm going here? The middle class is not the middle class our grandparents had or even our own parents. What Obama is trying to do is bridge that gap between lower and upper class. Which everyone is veiwing as socialism. Do any Obama haters even know the definition of socialism? Look it up, we will never be anywhere near it.
Here is another way the middle class is hurting. Both my wife and I had to have surgury recently. I had to have a kneed replacement and she had to have her galbladder taken out. My insurrance has gotten so shittly latley, that my company now has insurrance that has a 20/80 % split on surgurys, which means we had to pay 20% out of pocket. My wifes galbadder cost us out of pocket $4000 and mine cost $5000. We have a savings account that little goes into. And we each have a retirement account. So I'm supposed to have over $10,000 on hand at all times to cover what my health insurrance doesn't? Or are we supposed to stay in pain like a dog? Has anyone heard of a heath insurrance company going bankrupt in this current cris? They have more lawyers then doctors working for them. I should point out that having good, lost cost health care is not living beyond our means. It's a right in this day and age.
The point of my rambling is the middle class runs this economy, not the upper class. The upper class is hurting now too because the middle class is in such disarray. The middle class deserves a stake in the economy, but not have everything handed to them. There has to be a happy medium. But greed will always complicate matters.
what... huh?
Active Member
There is a certain kind of peace which can only be found on the other side of war.
olosto
New Member
That chart compares GDP w/ national debt. Like I said, the national debt went up every year under clinton.
Bias chart and because of our growing economy of course that graph is going to look kile that. You ALWAYS look at national debt in terms of GPD. I don't know what the purpose of that graph is because any economist will tell you national debt is always looked at in terms of GDP.
what... huh?
Active Member
Our oil is not too deep. We just aren't drilling there, and blaming it on environmental concerns. We are just sucking them dry. IMO.
Lol.
When we were there 20 years ago, we were training and arming them to defend themselves against the OTHER superpower.
We only went over there "killing them" when the UN appealed to us, given the war crimes of the despot (who's party we helped put in power, yes) trying to amass a nuclear arsenal. We are the teeth of the UN.
The second time we went over there "killing people" was Kossovo. You remember... right? When the orthodox were having muslims slaughtered wholesale, and we rained war on Milosovich.
The next time we went in was after the towers fell, and negotiations with the Taliban went particularly poorly... for obvious reasons.
Iraq, we did a good thing. We have done a good thing. Fewer people have died in this war by great numbers than at the hands of Hussain. Whether or not the war is justifiable, even by the end, is subject to debate. The rest of the post is not.
olosto
New Member
I totally agree with you here. And screw em. if they wanna sell us their oil till there is no more fine. We actually have quite a bit of oil here in the US but why use it? Let us use up everyones elses oil and we will be the only country left with substantial oil fields.
Also how far do we drill max? 4-10 miles? Not even that? New drilling will make more fields accessable but again, why use our oil??
olosto
New Member
I agree to a certain extent.
No Exit Strategy
That was the problem. If we would have forced a puppet government instead.....
what... huh?
Active Member
Assuming that exiting is the only strategy... yes. Setting up a Ramstein smack dab in the middle of the sandbox would be exactly what I would gear towards... if I were in the unfortunate position of trying to protect you heathens that is. A defensible base to mobilize from... where we don't have to tip our hands to the Israelis. I never really saw it as a flaw... but a means to an end.
hom36rown
Well-Known Member
You don't know what the purpose of the graph is...to show you the national debt went up every year under Clinton....remember, you said that is an "outright lie"
Alright explain Olosto, why should one look at our debt in terms of GDP? Like I said Clinton presided over a bubble, of course there will be a huge GDP...but a large GDP does not mean the findamentals of the economy are sound...Savings rates, balance of payments, industrial production, infrastucture..these are the indicators of a fundamentally sound economy. The GDP is a misleading, inflated number...
olosto
New Member
GDP is how the government and everyone else measures a countries debt, plain and simple. It provides a much more accurate picture than a graph that does not take the growth of the economy into account. That graph for looking at national debt is ging to lead you to the wrong conclusions and that is why it is universally accepted.
The percentage of debt the country owed in relation to the size of the economy went down under Clinton. Thats why your graph is useless. Because the economy expanded so much and the economy was good, there were more dollars being lended (health environment). For every dollar in our economy we may owe say 25 cents, but before Clinton it was say 45 cents. See how tht is less debt while taking the size of the economy into account?
That is why there are standard accounting processes for how you look at a countries debt. Im not making this up take an econ course and you will see that is how it is done, period.
I seem to have mistook what you said slightly, but my point is the same. Clinton LOWERED debt. Check out a history book sometime..
olosto
New Member
I understand your arguement that the dollar amount did not go down. I get that. I also understand that a countried debt is measured in terms of percentage to GDP.
I even understand the whole conspiracy theory that, "Wait the dollar amount is more, so it must have grown." But its like this. Say you make 100k a year and you owe 25k and are paying on that. Say you get a raise and now make 200k but owe 27k now. Which would you rather have? I'll take the making 200k and oweing 27k every day of the week, and so would you. The difference in percentage of these two numbers is how debt is measured. In this case 25% debt when you were making 100k versus 13.5% debt when you started making 200k.
I even understand the whole conspiracy theory that, "Wait the dollar amount is more, so it must have grown." But its like this. Say you make 100k a year and you owe 25k and are paying on that. Say you get a raise and now make 200k but owe 27k now. Which would you rather have? I'll take the making 200k and oweing 27k every day of the week, and so would you. The difference in percentage of these two numbers is how debt is measured. In this case 25% debt when you were making 100k versus 13.5% debt when you started making 200k.
