Oregon homeless camp bill

doughper said:

Well, good for you for helping out with the problem by volunteering!
On your other statement, you stop just short of saying that many people with mental disorders
are compelled to self-medicate with alcohol and other substances.

With this war on drugs, and prison industrial complex we have in USA, it'd seem a mental health
industrial complex, and a war on mental illness would be money and effort much better spent.

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id likely not stop since a lot do, it not about your war on drugs and dislike to the war on mental illness, self medication is apart of some peoples mental illness thats the reality of it

Sir Napsalot said:

My statement was based on my observations drawn from my local area

I don't have numbers and shit- I rely on my perception

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perceptions are faulty and influenced by your own biases, objective information says you are wrong.

https://endhomelessness.org/blog/employed-and-experiencing-homelessness-what-the-numbers-show/

https://endhomelessness.org/homelessness-in-america/homelessness-statistics/state-of-homelessness/

https://www.projecthome.org/homelessness-facts

https://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/employment.html

I fergot what Sir Naps had said in his OP:

Sir Napsalot said:

a large segment of the homeless population have no desire to do anything other than what they're doing.

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TY for finding the following links, Rog.

Ahh, yeah, that's what the statement was. "They're just lazy, shiftless, worthless, no-good human beings."
Kinda like Fox news and the republican party. Oh, and yanno what my buddy, (may he RIP) would say to your stats, right?
"FAKE NEWS!" and "They're from the gub'ment, and the gub'ment lies". It was a most frustrating relationship, i gotta say.

So here's a large segment of the homeless population which i'm sure has no desire to do their minimum wage job any more
than you or I would, yet here's the numbers:

53% of people living in homeless shelters and 40% of unsheltered people were employed, either full or part-time,
in the year that people were observed homeless between 2011 – 2018.

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And i'll agree here with Sir Naps, "they have no desire to ...". Min wage jobs SUCK THE BIG ONE! But they do it anyway.

I love this quote:

More than four decades ago in 1967, a year-round worker earning the minimum wage was paid enough to raise a
family of three above the poverty line (Solar, 1995). From 1981-1990, however, the minimum wage was frozen at
$3.35 an hour, while the cost of living increased 48% over the same period. Congress raised the minimum wage to
$5.15 per hour in 1996, and it has not been raised until 2007.

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So, every 20 years the republicans'll bump the min wage a buck or so, whether it needs it or not. :SIGH: Hey, this country, and all
countries were built on the backs of slaves, so wtf, over?

Anyhow I was working back then, sheeit man...it was 85 cents an hour kinda shit. Hell, i got outta vietnam, come home
getting $1.85 and 2.25/hr. FUCK you, man. Min. wage? I never saw it for years. Military was 4 or 5K/yr, but you're on the
job, or at least on call, 24/7, so what's the hourly rate there? Nah, i knew i shouldn't start posting here.

doughper said:

no-good human beings

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I enjoy those ppl. yanno, the lazy, shiftless, no-goods. They make me feel good about m'self.
It'd be a shame if they were to suddenly have good, dignified, self-respecting incomes, even if they still
have shit-jobs. It'd be a shame because hell, they might have it as good as I do, and hell, how would I
be able to elevate my self-pride about how valuable and what an asset I am to the community if other people who
used to be homeless, lazy, worthless, human trash, were somehow closer to my equal? That'd really SUCK.
I wouldn't have anybody to look down my nose at, what a shame that'd be. I like it better this way, where
the human refuse lay around in the streets, littering the place up, and giving me a reason to feel good
about myself. At least there's somebody out there who's a lower son of a bitch than me. Yeah, don't change
the system, let's keep it, it's good for my ego and my self pride. I like it just the way it is.

Must'a struck a nerve...

doughper said:

Hell, i got outta vietnam, come home
getting $1.85 and 2.25/hr.

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I'm 65 and joined the Navy when I was 17, right before the fall of Saigon in 1975

You say you're 63?

Looks like Allentown PA has a homeless problem now and they are scrambling to find solutions . Jumps in monthly rent payments are extreme. Seems like the Ave rate for a 2 bedroom apartment is about $2,200 in my research across most of the United states with the exceptions being the largest cities. The cities with obscene rents are San Fran, nyc even Philly has joined the league of top playing gouging. Then they have the nerve NOT to increase the cost of living in increase wages. Just going to be more and more homeless. Building materials are super expensive as well. Maybe some nicer trailer parks would be a good idea. Some sort of way to make safe inexpensive housing. I cringe when I see massive mansion style houses buing built. It’s so glutinous. Or when the garage door is open and the entire garage is filled up with crap . Hoarding , now there is a mental disease that effects all economic classes.

Sir Napsalot said:

I'm 65 and joined the Navy when I was 17, right before the fall of Saigon in 1975

You say you're 63?

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How the hell could i have been there at 63 if you were too young to have been there and you're 65.

Anyone have any thoughts on building new cities? Creates jobs and would lower the cost nationally by creating more housing stock. It would be attractive to move there as it could be created with affordability/livability in mind.

Was reading about the below specifically, but the broad topic of urban planning is pretty interesting. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_city_movement

To me, it seems easier to start fresh and go with something big and bold instead of having random cities do random disjointed shit. There is so much wide open space out there we could use.

HGCC said:

Anyone have any thoughts on building new cities? Creates jobs and would lower the cost nationally by creating more housing stock. It would be attractive to move there as it could be created with affordability/livability in mind.

Was reading about the below specifically, but the broad topic of urban planning is pretty interesting. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_city_movement

To me, it seems easier to start fresh and go with something big and bold instead of having random cities do random disjointed shit. There is so much wide open space out there we could use.

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to the last sentence: there isn’t, really. E.g. the desert has large open stretches, but building infrastructure would kill it.
Rebuild on the old concrete, or forget it.

We could stick in Iowa or Minnesota, there is a bunch of open land that isn't in inhospitable places like a desert.

I can't vouch for accuracy, but I like the map

.

Edit: it's nice having a new topic to ramble about.

HGCC said:

We could stick in Iowa or Minnesota, there is a bunch of open land that isn't in inhospitable places like a desert.

I can't vouch for accuracy, but I like the map

Nobody Lives Here: Mapping Emptiness in the U.S. and Beyond

Did you know the U.S. is actually almost half empty?

bigthink.com

.

Edit: it's nice having a new topic to ramble about.

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Wilderness is precious. Would you dig up forest or farmland for this folly?
Today’s environmentalists prefer increasing urban density so as to reduce the amount of land being bulldozed for sprawl. And the garden cities plan sprawls. It’s a 120-year-old idea that was formulated when wilderness was perceived to have no or negative value. Many reject that premise now.

HGCC said:

We could stick in Iowa or Minnesota, there is a bunch of open land that isn't in inhospitable places like a desert.

I can't vouch for accuracy, but I like the map

Nobody Lives Here: Mapping Emptiness in the U.S. and Beyond

Did you know the U.S. is actually almost half empty?

bigthink.com

.

Edit: it's nice having a new topic to ramble about.

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you ever been to Mn or Iowa in January? There's a reason no one lives in a lot of those places, they suck ass.
Towns grow up at least semi organically...If you custom build a town, people will immediately start trying to change it to suit themselves.
You have to be within a reasonable commute of work, unless you can somehow get a few major industries to build plants in your town that doesn't even exist yet...You have to be on major trucking routes, companies don't like to establish a new route for under a certain amount of expected income from it. You have to build a power plant, water processing plant, sewage plant, a recycling center, schools, a hospital, a police station, a fire station...
you have to find people to fill all of those jobs.
are you going to build empty storefronts in town and let people set up what they want? or are you going to give some of them a better deal for running less profitable but desirable businesses?....Get back to me with these ansers, and i have at least 5 times this many more questions we can get to then.

Roger A. Shrubber said:

you ever been to Mn or Iowa in January? There's a reason no one lives in a lot of those places, they suck ass.
Towns grow up at least semi organically...If you custom build a town, people will immediately start trying to change it to suit themselves.
You have to be within a reasonable commute of work, unless you can somehow get a few major industries to build plants in your town that doesn't even exist yet...You have to be on major trucking routes, companies don't like to establish a new route for under a certain amount of expected income from it. You have to build a power plant, water processing plant, sewage plant, a recycling center, schools, a hospital, a police station, a fire station...
you have to find people to fill all of those jobs.
are you going to build empty storefronts in town and let people set up what they want? or are you going to give some of them a better deal for running less profitable but desirable businesses?....Get back to me with these ansers, and i have at least 5 times this many more questions we can get to then.

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Dibs on the sewage plant!

HGCC said:

Anyone have any thoughts on building new cities? Creates jobs and would lower the cost nationally by creating more housing stock. It would be attractive to move there as it could be created with affordability/livability in mind.

Was reading about the below specifically, but the broad topic of urban planning is pretty interesting. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_city_movement

To me, it seems easier to start fresh and go with something big and bold instead of having random cities do random disjointed shit. There is so much wide open space out there we could use.

Click to expand...

China has built a dozen modern cities out in the boonies to draw people away from the large centres and they remain empty. Millions of units in these 'ghost cities' so more than enough to house all North America's homeless.

I bet even the MAGArats wouldn't complain about the freight charges to move them over there.

OldMedUser said:

China has built a dozen modern cities out in the boonies to draw people away from the large centres and they remain empty. Millions of units in these 'ghost cities' so more than enough to house all North America's homeless.

I bet even the MAGArats wouldn't complain about the freight charges to move them over there.

The Story of China's Ghost Cities and Its 65 Million Empty Homes

There is a ghostly London, Manhattan, and Paris lying within China.

interestingengineering.com

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Those sponge city ideas are awesome.

cannabineer said:

Wilderness is precious. Would you dig up forest or farmland for this folly?
Today’s environmentalists prefer increasing urban density so as to reduce the amount of land being bulldozed for sprawl. And the garden cities plan sprawls. It’s a 120-year-old idea that was formulated when wilderness was perceived to have no or negative value. Many reject that premise now.

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Mix of both, but perhaps the environmentalists opinions shouldn't be the only ones at the table when figuring out how to provide housing. Those garden cities are a dense core but allow for more pleasant living.

Roger A. Shrubber said:

you ever been to Mn or Iowa in January? There's a reason no one lives in a lot of those places, they suck ass.
Towns grow up at least semi organically...If you custom build a town, people will immediately start trying to change it to suit themselves.
You have to be within a reasonable commute of work, unless you can somehow get a few major industries to build plants in your town that doesn't even exist yet...You have to be on major trucking routes, companies don't like to establish a new route for under a certain amount of expected income from it. You have to build a power plant, water processing plant, sewage plant, a recycling center, schools, a hospital, a police station, a fire station...
you have to find people to fill all of those jobs.
are you going to build empty storefronts in town and let people set up what they want? or are you going to give some of them a better deal for running less profitable but desirable businesses?....Get back to me with these ansers, and i have at least 5 times this many more questions we can get to then.

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So many questions. You are providing jobs to the unemployed/under employed to build out that missing infrastructure. They build the housing/sewage/etc. In exchange they get a nice newly built well planned place with a controlled cost of living. High quality of life at an affordable price would ideally be the eventual draw. Beats living in a tent.

Yeah it would require a bunch of subsidies to get going, roads, incentives to attract businesses, etc. I don't think it would be an insurmountable task for the federal government to do that. ***lol OK in reality that would never happen, we can't deal with the debt ceiling. This is some pie in the sky talk***

I would be in favor of subsidies to prop up socially desirable but less profitable businesses. None of that gun store/liquor store/pawn shop/check cashing strip mall stuff. Stick in a grocery store instead, pet place, couple of restaurants, etc.

OldMedUser said:

China has built a dozen modern cities out in the boonies to draw people away from the large centres and they remain empty. Millions of units in these 'ghost cities' so more than enough to house all North America's homeless.

I bet even the MAGArats wouldn't complain about the freight charges to move them over there.

The Story of China's Ghost Cities and Its 65 Million Empty Homes

There is a ghostly London, Manhattan, and Paris lying within China.

interestingengineering.com

Click to expand...

It's not dissimilar. From that article, some of those cities are starting to fill out now.

The purpose and reasons for building them are different though. China seemed to build just because, there wasn't really a need for it.

HGCC said:

It's not dissimilar. From that article, some of those cities are starting to fill out now.

The purpose and reasons for building them are different though. China seemed to build just because, there wasn't really a need for it.

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There is an incentive structure in place unique to China.