Oregon outdoor 2019

graying.geek said:

Hey, @Humanrob, since you do primarily autos outdoor, do you do any breeding? Any success generating seeds, or do you find a plethora of crappy phenotypes due to the hybridization with ruderalis genes? I'm thinking that I might try the auto Durban Poison, produce some fem pollen, and do a cross between 2 DP individuals to check the stability. Input anyone?

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I have not bred any autos yet, I'm considering it this winter in my indoor. It requires setting up a separate space for the male(s) which is more time and money, so I'm not sure I'll go there. I have done some photo pollinating in the past, and at best I'd be doing 'hobby pollen chucking' since I don't have the time or space to actually do selective breeding. Just the fact that I really only do one reliable grow per year would make the whole process of testing stretch out over years.

I might be misreading your post, are you thinking about breeding in your outdoor grow? Would you produce the pollen indoors? Mine are already showing their first hairs, so it might be too late for this season, depending on the age of your girls.

Humanrob said:

I have not bred any autos yet, I'm considering it this winter in my indoor. It requires setting up a separate space for the male(s) which is more time and money, so I'm not sure I'll go there. I have done some photo pollinating in the past, and at best I'd be doing 'hobby pollen chucking' since I don't have the time or space to actually do selective breeding. Just the fact that I really only do one reliable grow per year would make the whole process of testing stretch out over years.

I might be misreading your post, are you thinking about breeding in your outdoor grow? Would you produce the pollen indoors? Mine are already showing their first hairs, so it might be too late for this season, depending on the age of your girls.

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Thought I'd read in some of your posts that you'd done some breeding, but must have been thinking of someone else.

In the event that this summer's outdoor grow doesn't finish before mid-Oct I'll probably follow your lead and go to autos during the summer. Never have grown autos but I'd like to stretch out a seed for a whole year like I do for photos, but since cloning autos is out, producing fem seeds seems like a reasonable way to go. I'm thinking that a landrace like Durban Poison as an auto might make a good candidate for producing auto fem seeds that are relatively stable genetically. Just no idea what phenotypes come out of the hybridization with the ruderalis, but I think it's worth a try.

graying.geek said:

Thought I'd read in some of your posts that you'd done some breeding, but must have been thinking of someone else.

In the event that this summer's outdoor grow doesn't finish before mid-Oct I'll probably follow your lead and go to autos during the summer. Never have grown autos but I'd like to stretch out a seed for a whole year like I do for photos, but since cloning autos is out, producing fem seeds seems like a reasonable way to go. I'm thinking that a landrace like Durban Poison as an auto might make a good candidate for producing auto fem seeds that are relatively stable genetically. Just no idea what phenotypes come out of the hybridization with the ruderalis, but I think it's worth a try.

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I'm sure I've talked about breeding, there was a time I set out to try it. I was playing with making new hybrids, which if done properly is a long term and labor intensive process, and after making some simple crosses, what I learned was that I did not have the time or space to do it right, so I went in other directions. In the end my best effort was an F1 of two great strains, and the few resulting plants that I grew from those seeds produced decent product that resembled one or the other of the genetic contributors. But it was all kind of random, which is why I referred to it as "hobby pollen chucking" -- I never took it to the next level and honed it down to something new, selectively choosing characteristics (and weeding out weak ones) until I created something that was better than "the sum of its genetic parts", which was the idea that originally caught my attention.

But you seem to be setting out with different goals. So... are you thinking of crossing your Durban Poison photos with a ruderalis plant to create a new auto strain, or has Dutch Passion already made a Durban Poison Auto that you are going to cross with itself in order to have more seeds on hand? Sorry, that part isn't clear to me.

Humanrob said:

I
But you seem to be setting out with different goals. So... are you thinking of crossing your Durban Poison photos with a ruderalis plant to create a new auto strain, or has Dutch Passion already made a Durban Poison Auto that you are going to cross with itself in order to have more seeds on hand? Sorry, that part isn't clear to me.

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lol... Just before I posted my last, I deleted the last sentence: "So now I need to pick up some auto fem DP seeds.", which would have clarified. Anyway, yes, the latter; I plan to get some Dutch Passion auto DP seeds and start from there.

graying.geek said:

lol... Just before I posted my last, I deleted the last sentence: "So now I need to pick up some auto fem DP seeds.", which would have clarified. Anyway, yes, the latter; I plan to get some Dutch Passion auto DP seeds and start from there.

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Phew! I didn't want to pee in your cherrios, but I imagine that developing your own auto from scratch would be a lot to take on.
Good to know you're letting some dedicated people do the heavy lifting on that one

This coming winter will be the first time I grow autos indoors. It could be tempting to try some limited selective pollination, just to give myself seeds for the following winter. Growing male and female plants and then selecting ones to cross was a big project, back-crossing from a fem and knowing all the resulting seeds will be fems, seems to remove most of the steps and variables and is a much more manageable goal. I know what you mean about stable lines as a starting point, I'll have to look into that.

Humanrob said:

Phew! I didn't want to pee in your cherrios, but I imagine that developing your own auto from scratch would be a lot to take on.
Good to know you're letting some dedicated people do the heavy lifting on that one

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No kiddin'. It'd be a pita to cross and selectively back-cross a couple of time to get the auto pheno. I'll leave that to the guys in Holland that have acres of isolated greenhouse space to take that on. I have the biology background, but it's just not worth the time. I'm just looking for a stable starting point to save some cash.

: said:

This coming winter will be the first time I grow autos indoors. It could be tempting to try some limited selective pollination, just to give myself seeds for the following winter. Growing male and female plants and then selecting ones to cross was a big project, back-crossing from a fem and knowing all the resulting seeds will be fems, seems to remove most of the steps and variables and is a much more manageable goal.

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I'm a dedicated fem seed grower. Being a rec grower, and subsequently limited to 4 plants, trying to grow from regular seeds is absurd. Early on I was gifted some regs from Getaway Mt. in Maine, and also fell for the Greenpoint Seed scam, and after 2 cycles of spending 5-6 weeks growing 4 seeds, only to throw out 3 males is a phenomonal waste of my time and resources. No more regs for me, unless some stable genetics show up in a reg-only strain that I must have.

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I know what you mean about stable lines as a starting point, I'll have to look into that.

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Yeah, the landrace strains are most promising. The inter-strain F1 hybrids -- which seem to be the bread and butter for American breeders -- are likely produce F2s with a rainbow of phenotypes, so I'll probably stick with fems from the stable oldtimer list for producing seeds: Durban Poison, Afghani, Skunk #1 from Sensi, Hindu Kush, Malawi, etc.

Hey, @MidwestGorilla219 (or anyone else who's grown Durban Poison outdoors N of the 40th).

It'd be helpful to lean on your experience with DP. As I said earlier, one of my DPs went into flower when I put it in the garden with 14+ hrs of daylight. @Humanrob suggested I take off all of the buds to accelerate reveg, but I chose to leave them on and let it go. Here we are approaching the solstice and the damn thing is *STILL* in flower and stacking buds, albeit more slowly than I'd expect in full flower. Anywho, I haven't seen this (a plant refusing to reveg) before, so looking for advice or input. What'll you think will be the outcome if I just let it go.


Also, any advice on feeding? Light, average, or heavy on feeding? Do you do any topping on your Durbans? Dutch Passion says to pass on topping, but I've seen journals posted that recommend it.

Yes, this is a double post. I posited the same question in the General forum with a single, unhelpful response. TIA for any experiential input.

I top very early at the fourth nod. In my experience the closer to the ground you top the easier it is to prevent branches snapping off the main. I never had them flower early so can't help you there. I grow organic and once DP gets big it can take some nutrients. I had to top dress blood meal, kelp meal, and chicken manure to keep them healthy once they got a decent size.

MidwestGorilla219 said:

I top very early at the fourth nod. In my experience the closer to the ground you top the easier it is to prevent branches snapping off the main. I never had them flower early so can't help you there. I grow organic and once DP gets big it can take some nutrients. I had to top dress blood meal, kelp meal, and chicken manure to keep them healthy once they got a decent size.

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Thanx, @MidwestGorilla219 . That's really useful. The DP that's still in veg shows promise in becoming a monster, passed 5' and visibly getting bigger each day. It seems to be sucking up all the top & side dressings I give it, so good to know that it can take it.

Hit that dp with some urea high nitrogen everyday foliage and soil feed till its vegging again... verde by humboldt nutrients works well

So my tomatoes have started to have a very tight, curly leaf problem on all the newest growth. Kinda clustering all the new flowers up. This has caused concern for my cannabis.

They have 11 gallons of Ocean Forest around the main root ball but the roots are heading out to new soil rapidly. I slowly dug around the root ball today and pulled out about 50 gallons of dirt from around the plants so I can add more FFoF in its place.

I can't pinpoint the exact problem with the veggies but I don't want it affecting my cannabis as well. The main 2 thing's that could be causing the problems are nitrogen overkill in the soil, or herbicide damage. 2,4-D is what a lot of pictures compare to as far as the leaf curling.

I haven't sprayed anything so I can't figure out where that would come from unless it's in the soil also. I hate when problems arise, especially one I'm not used to dealing with. I'll leave a few tomato pictures here also incase anyone has any more info to share.

BlazinDucks said:

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Sorry about your tomatoes. It's looking bleak. I've never had tomato problems so I guess I'm lucky. Did you bring in new soil this year?

Yep. Spent $375 bringing in all new dirt. Figured it was a definite upgrade from the old compact shit that's been in there over the years. Everything on the website seemed great, no bad reviews and all that. Now there's issues and not sure what to do. They're still putting out tomatoes, but nothing ripe yet, and the new flowers are stuck in wadded up leaves.

BlazinDucks said:

Yep. Spent $375 bringing in all new dirt. Figured it was a definite upgrade from the old compact shit that's been in there over the years. Everything on the website seemed great, no bad reviews and all that. Now there's issues and not sure what to do. They're still putting out tomatoes, but nothing ripe yet, and the new flowers are stuck in wadded up leaves.

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The new dirt could have been treated with weed killer recently so you might be right about 2,4-d. I saw a youtube video where some lady bought weed free horse manure and had the same results.

Backyard dirt said:

The new dirt could have been treated with weed killer recently so you might be right about 2,4-d. I saw a youtube video where some lady bought weed free horse manure and had the same results.

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Doesn't that stuff have a fairly short life, or half life? Im hoping if that's the case, the stuff will just go away in time. Or will we basically be eating weed killer in our veggies?

So I spoke with the company I purchased the soil from. After going over my issues over the phone I was asked to send pictures via email. Got a call back from her a bit later stating that they had the same thing going on with their garden on the lot.

I explained my concerns with the herbicide and she said that the company's they deal with are all certified(I'm guessing OMRI) and have to pass high standards or some shit like that. She did say that the soil in question runs a little high in salts.

She said I should flush them daily until the issues are rinsed away. I've already been doing that, but it hasn't fixed itself. According to her, their plants are recovering from the curly shit and putting on tomatoes now, so I should expect the same thing soon.

She seems like a nice woman, and was more than willing to hear me out. I hope in the end that it fixes itself and I don't have to call them back up with more complaints.

Moral of the story, don't trust dirt from businesses you know nothing of. Stick to bag dirt that's well accepted in the growing community. Mixing your own is probably the way to go, but I've never had issues with Ocean Forest so im sticking to it.

All in all I have about 60 gallons of Ocean Forest around each cannabis plant. 2.5 feet or so of root length from the stock out. It'll be close in the end. I was pretty surprised how far the roots had gone out since I transplanted on the 15th. Unfortunately I had to cut through some while digging out the problem soil.

Hopefully none of you in the portland area had your plants ripped to shreds during the storm last night. That shit was brutal.

A little look at my garden this year.

BlazinDucks said:

A little look at my garden this year.

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Lookin' sweet, Dude; and again, killer garden setup!