Organic IPM Regiment? Also random notes/spider mites question

So I have a solid grasp on organic IPM, but not confident in how often to use them. Plus there’s much more that I don’t know and would like to learn. Here are some random notes I have.

Besides all that, I am winning a spider mite fight but the plants really need a transplant. I have a 4x4 bed with coots mix that’s been sitting in the same room as the plants with spider mites. I’ve been using ahimsa neem oil/spinosad plus vacuuming and such, and things look much better.. is it ok to transplant into the bed?

Basic Items:

Emulsifiers - I use Dr Bronners “no scent” castille soap. BuildASoil uses Saponin, or soap nuts for example.

Ahimsa Neem Oil (8oz is like 20$ after shipping)

Karanja Oil - I read it’s a little easier to mix, but also read they work well when used together

Spinosad - I initially used this for thrips, but it seems to work a little with spider mites/fungus gnats in my experience. (Buy the concentrated version, much cheaper.)

BTI Mosquito Dunk -Seemed to really help with fungus gnats, I broke it down the best I could and watered it in

Neem Oil Foliar - 1 Tbsp organic neem or karanja oil emulsified in 1tsp agsil16H (or protekt)
1/4 tsp 200x organic aloe powder.I also added 10-15ml per gallon BioAg Fulpower

I personally am not sure how helpful Diametacious Earth is IN the soil, but I’ve sprinkled some on the ground near pots with more severe infestations

Yellow sticky traps work well. Wonder if DIY sticky traps are easy, or there are specific pheromones in them?

Predator Insects: I’ve been told you should pick your predator insects depending on YOUR climate… like the RH and such has to be correct or they don’t breed correctly or something.

Someone told me this, for spider mites. I’ve been suggested califonircus the most. I’m not sure where the best spot to buy these are though? Any help?

Persimilis for an immediate infestation, and then I like californicus or cucumeris for secondary clean up after the outbreak is under control.

Supposedly lady bugs are good for major aphid issues


I’ll add to this as I go, but let’s make a nice list to bounce around.

I wouldn’t put anything into a bed that has spider mites. You filled it up. Imagine taking it down now just clean a tent that has mites now….

AgSil16h is approved for organic when used as a foliar.

green_machine_two9er said:

I wouldn’t put anything into a bed that has spider mites. You filled it up. Imagine taking it down now just clean a tent that has mites now….

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I may have said it wrong. The plants that have spider mites are in their own pots, it’s just the bed is in the same room. Im not sure what else I can do because I can’t afford to refill it with soil right now.
I’m 100% fucking the spider mites up though, It looks like things are balancing out but i’m still being aggressive.
I was thinking I could transplant them, and then give them a good foliar and soil drench. I did just use neem oil a few days ago though. Any help brotha?

Nice to see you, havnt been on here lately but starting a grow journal after transplant

I’m not using a tent either, its just in a room. I really do think i’d be fine, there’s really no difference just leaving them in their pots i’d think? They really need the transplant too, I feel they’d be healthier and fight better then?

You've got to fix the reason why your plants got them in the first place.

First is stopping them from coming in, on your person. Shower, change into clean clothes and shoes before fucking with the garden. Shoes should be for garden only. Work on your indoor garden before doing anything outside. Keep plants away from your path of entry into your building. Filter for your intakes.

Now, you've got to evaluate why your plants are attracting and homing these pests.

excessive soil fertility - especially nitrogen

low calcium/available organic matter - rootbound plants generally devolve into this scenario which exasperates the next

improper watering schedule/technique - don't let the pots get light and your plant droopy.... water less, more often - daily misting/simulated drizzle helps as well, especially in veg

high temperatures - pests generally show exponential growth with warmer temperatures

Predators, glad you're already onto that.

Lady bugs suck for pests, they're a huge mess and the harvesting method is sketch af.

Californicus are good if your temps are high. I use cucumeris and andersoni for mites as well as the californicus. I also employ rove beetles and hypoaspis miles. I'm looking into adding nematodes for my next run as well.


https://www.evergreengrowers.com/ Is where I get my stuff from. They are on their shit. I've ordered less than a couple hours before overnights would need sent out and got it the next morning. Truly less than 24h turnaround time.

I would not start a run with any type of issue with my plants. With a successful run you can actually improve on technique to grow better in subsequent runs. This is where you improve as a gardener, not chasing your tail.

You don't need to mix new soil. You need to ensure that whatever happened to bring this on is not going to be an issue going forward. Without knowing anything about you or your methods, and not enough free time, I will offer minimal advice.

Get good compost, the best shit you can find. There's a guy local to me that makes great ewc, expensive but top notch. You don't need much to make a huge impact on plant health. Healthy plants given just what they want don't attract pests. Compost is a piece of that, top dressed or watered in... just a handful soaked in a 5 gallon bucket for less than an hour.

A semi-regular inoculation of something like recharge, mykos/azos, rootwise, etc can't hurt but not needed if you've got good compost available.

Calcium is something you're gonna need to figure out. Realistically your best bet is hitting your transplants on time. I know that's not always possible but it's crucial to have the ability to plan/execute moves months in advance. Getting a clone through veg with no stress is the goal. Any issue is tanking your efficiency.

Is there enough calcium in the soil in relation to everything else, especially potassium? Do you need to foliar some calcium in veg? Do you need to mix more compost and calcium sources into your veg mix?


Watch the videos with ipm in the title for more info than I could convey in a forum post.

As far as them needing a transplant, treat them like bonsai. Trim the bottom quarter of the root ball off, compost/trash it. Put a bit of new soil in the bottom, top dress some compost and watch them rebound fast af.

quiescent said:

You've got to fix the reason why your plants got them in the first place.

First is stopping them from coming in, on your person. Shower, change into clean clothes and shoes before fucking with the garden. Shoes should be for garden only. Work on your indoor garden before doing anything outside. Keep plants away from your path of entry into your building. Filter for your intakes.

Now, you've got to evaluate why your plants are attracting and homing these pests.

excessive soil fertility - especially nitrogen

low calcium/available organic matter - rootbound plants generally devolve into this scenario which exasperates the next

improper watering schedule/technique - don't let the pots get light and your plant droopy.... water less, more often - daily misting/simulated drizzle helps as well, especially in veg

high temperatures - pests generally show exponential growth with warmer temperatures

Predators, glad you're already onto that.

Lady bugs suck for pests, they're a huge mess and the harvesting method is sketch af.

Californicus are good if your temps are high. I use cucumeris and andersoni for mites as well as the californicus. I also employ rove beetles and hypoaspis miles. I'm looking into adding nematodes for my next run as well.


https://www.evergreengrowers.com/ Is where I get my stuff from. They are on their shit. I've ordered less than a couple hours before overnights would need sent out and got it the next morning. Truly less than 24h turnaround time.

I would not start a run with any type of issue with my plants. With a successful run you can actually improve on technique to grow better in subsequent runs. This is where you improve as a gardener, not chasing your tail.

You don't need to mix new soil. You need to ensure that whatever happened to bring this on is not going to be an issue going forward. Without knowing anything about you or your methods, and not enough free time, I will offer minimal advice.

Get good compost, the best shit you can find. There's a guy local to me that makes great ewc, expensive but top notch. You don't need much to make a huge impact on plant health. Healthy plants given just what they want don't attract pests. Compost is a piece of that, top dressed or watered in... just a handful soaked in a 5 gallon bucket for less than an hour.

A semi-regular inoculation of something like recharge, mykos/azos, rootwise, etc can't hurt but not needed if you've got good compost available.

Calcium is something you're gonna need to figure out. Realistically your best bet is hitting your transplants on time. I know that's not always possible but it's crucial to have the ability to plan/execute moves months in advance. Getting a clone through veg with no stress is the goal. Any issue is tanking your efficiency.

Is there enough calcium in the soil in relation to everything else, especially potassium? Do you need to foliar some calcium in veg? Do you need to mix more compost and calcium sources into your veg mix?

https://youtube.com/c/FutureCannabisProject

Watch the videos with ipm in the title for more info than I could convey in a forum post.

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Ok well that was awesome, thanks for the in-depth reply. With that being said, I have already changed a lot about my techniques. I do have an outdoor garden as well, I will not be going from out there to anywhere near the grow room without a shower/change clothes.

I did let the plants get a little unwatered before watering them more than I should have. You say you can stimulate with a drizzle, are we talking about a minor misting with just straight water?

My main concern is my plants need the transplant from their pots, into my 4x4. They’re quite big in their pots, don’t want to get rootbound and they need the nutrients. I don’t want pests to attack because the plants are stressed. I know transplanting can cause stress, but I feel like i’m better off transplanting than not.


I actually do have mykos and azos. I have coast of maine compost which i’ve read is high tier for prebagged compost. I also have a worm bin and a compost pile, so i’m planning for the future.

The soil in my 4x4 is…

Kelp
Neem
Crustacean Meal
Oyster shell flour
gypsum
basalt
I also was going to add some malted barley powder, from whole kernels I’ll grind up.

I’ve been diligent in spraying and spraying well. My plan for today would be to transplant 4 plants into my 4x4,add some mykos to the holes, sprinkle my BuildASoil 12 seed cover crop, and water in some BioAg FulPower/coconut water/aloe. Also could add some worms.

Mainly want to know if you think transplanting today is all good. I think it would help them. Also would hang up my HLG Scorpion Rspec which i’m excited about, but turn it down some.

quiescent said:

As far as them needing a transplant, treat them like bonsai. Trim the bottom quarter of the root ball off, compost/trash it. Put a bit of new soil in the bottom, top dress some compost and watch them rebound fast af.

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Didn’t see your second comment until right now. I’m using a 4x4 raised grassroots bed, have blumats but can’t hook them up yet.

Yes, just a spray down with water.

I wouldn't be transplanting into your bed with any pests. You'd be putting them back in the same pot for a couple weeks while they recover and you fully eradicate them.

I used to use huge smart pots under a single light, basically like what you’re doing now. You can't properly maintain or inspect them in the bed imo. Better to leave them mobile and push your timeline back a bit.

quiescent said:

Yes, just a spray down with water.

I wouldn't be transplanting into your bed with any pests. You'd be putting them back in the same pot for a couple weeks while they recover and you fully eradicate them.

I used to use huge smart pots under a single light, basically like what you’re doing now. You can't properly maintain or inspect them in the bed imo. Better to leave them mobile and push your timeline back a bit.

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In the mean time if I didn’t transplant, what would you feed your plants?I topdressed with compost/fish meal/neem like 10-14 days ago. I was thinking I could make an SST, one of the plants looks quite healthy but the whole thing is a little to light green as if it’s hungry for sure.

They’re not necessarily rootbound but I can do a solid water and need to do it again within a day or so you know

I have a sprayer with insecticide soap,spray around windows doors etc.I also spray the floor as Im walking to my grow space.

I use 3 things.

1. Potassium silicate
2. Sesame oil
3. Citric acid

Potassium silicate for prevention of PM
Sesame oil as both a fungicide and insecticide. It works for both.
Citric acid as a contact killer. It kills bugs dead on contact.

Kind Sir said:

I may have said it wrong. The plants that have spider mites are in their own pots, it’s just the bed is in the same room. Im not sure what else I can do because I can’t afford to refill it with soil right now.
I’m 100% fucking the spider mites up though, It looks like things are balancing out but i’m still being aggressive.
I was thinking I could transplant them, and then give them a good foliar and soil drench. I did just use neem oil a few days ago though. Any help brotha?

Nice to see you, havnt been on here lately but starting a grow journal after transplant

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Give those plants a citric acid foliar. That will kill the mites.

How big are the pots? How long have the plants been in the pots? How big are the plants?

What is your plan for your next round of plants?

If you put contaminated plants into your soil bed bugs will end up in the soil bed. And when you harvest your current plants and put new ones in, the same old bugs will crawl into your new plants.

If it's possible I would repot your plants into new, bigger containers and finish your grow in those containers. Keep those plants away from your soil bed and cover crop. Then when your current, infested grow is done, you can start fresh,with fresh, uninfected plants.

If your plants are pretty big and they have been in small containers for awhile they will be very easy to repot. The old containers should pull right off without disturbing your roots, causing zero stress. Give your plants some good dirt and some room to grow and they should green right up.

Kind Sir said:

In the mean time if I didn’t transplant, what would you feed your plants?I topdressed with compost/fish meal/neem like 10-14 days ago. I was thinking I could make an SST, one of the plants looks quite healthy but the whole thing is a little to light green as if it’s hungry for sure.

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Outside of the compost everything you did is likely hurting your cause. Too much n/p attracts pests because your plant has produced/stored excess proteins. Probably a calcium issue, the compost will help a lot on its own.

I would not make an sst to improve health. Like putting nos into a stock 89 civic.

youraveragehorticulturist said:

How big are the pots? How long have the plants been in the pots? How big are the plants?

What is your plan for your next round of plants?

If you put contaminated plants into your soil bed bugs will end up in the soil bed. And when you harvest your current plants and put new ones in, the same old bugs will crawl into your new plants.

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Not true. If he eradicated the bugs and fixes the issues that caused this in the first place they wouldn't magically attack the next round. He could cure it in the bed, scouting and access are more difficult.

If it's possible I would repot your plants into new, bigger containers and finish your grow in those containers. Keep those plants away from your soil bed and cover crop. Then when your current, infested grow is done, you can start fresh,with fresh, uninfected plants.

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Ideally he gets the issues resolved and starts over with fresh clones. As I said above, separate pots or whatever are not necessary.

If your plants are pretty big and they have been in small containers for awhile they will be very easy to repot. The old containers should pull right off without disturbing your roots, causing zero stress. Give your plants some good dirt and some room to grow and they should green right up.

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You actually want to "damage" roots when transplanting, especially into something like a bed. Scoring is a catalyst for much greater lateral root spread after transplants. These plants are as resilient as most others, they're just harder to cultivate well.