Organic or Hydro?

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purklize

Active Member
Can you provide some evidence of any of your claims about organics? I have never seen a citation whenever similar claims have been made - it's always just "it works for me" (anecdotal evidence) or "it sounds right to me" (guessing) or "i like organic because it's natural" (aesthetic value).

The reason beneficial microbes help in soil is they break down organic material that plants can't use into very simple molecules - "chemicals," as many organic growers would call them (all chemicals are chemicals, we are all chemicals, but there is an arbitrary distinction most make where chemicals cease to be "chemicals" if the molecules are big enough - enzymes etc. - totally irrational).
 
Beagle

Beagle

Well-Known Member
Hydro.

System: Ebb&Flow(homemade)
Nutes: FloraNova Series with Florablend, Floralicious Plus, Liquid koolbloom.
Medium: Hydroton only

I've gotta admit, my first 2 harvest were lacking in taste. Then after I dialed it in, it tastes and smells GREAT!
 
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kindfarms420

Active Member
purklize said:
Probably grown badly... the hydro buds I grew are more smelly than the organic soil ones of the same cut... and the best tomatoes I've ever had were hydroponic. These plants reward you for making them happy and healthy, and they are unambiguously happier and healthier in hydroponics...

Hydro isn't some toxic 21st century rocket science... it is as ancient as written history itself.

http://www.home.aone.net.au/~hydroponics/hydro.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanging_Gardens_of_Babylon

Also in many ways hydroponics is better for the environment. It uses 5% as much water as earth sown crops! And you are getting more out of every KWH of power so you are burning less coal.

The organic craze is just hype IMO. Organic material decomposes into the mineral salts found in hydroponic fertilizers, which are the only things the plants can absorb anyway. Every piece of "evidence" of the supposed superiority of organics is anecdotal, I have never seen any scientific proof of any of the claims of its proponents... though I would love to be proven wrong on this. In the grocery store, the organic produce usually tastes better, but I think this has more to do with the close attention that is given by organic farmers that factory farms don't provide.

Plants can't absorb organic material through their roots, they just draw up minerals ("chemicals"). This is what makes plants unique and so important in the first place. They are chemical factories - they draw up simple minerals and CO2, and use light to power the synthesis of fabulously complicated organic chemicals we all depend on to survive.
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no actually the person that grew the hydro has been doing it for over 15 years in soil and hydro ive smoked both his organic soil buds (that he produces for himself only) and have tried his hydro that he gets rid of and the best is always the soil hands down (it may not yield more but it will produce better flavor and smell in the buds) and if you think that the best tomatoes are hydro you obviously have never had a soil grown tomatoe from somebody that knows what there doing..
 
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kindfarms420

Active Member
the only thing hydro has going for it maybe the yield.. but then again you look at some of the world record veggies that have been grown and what were they grown with? ORGANIC SOIL and GUANO TEAS...
 
DankGrower

DankGrower

Active Member
I personally have never found anything in hydro that had much variation in taste I have had the chance to smoke some of the west coasts finest hydros. Nothing beats the taste and high of the organics grown by myself or friends I know
 
gladstoned

gladstoned

Well-Known Member
I was growing in hydro and thought old timers that were too stubborn to switch was what kept soil popular. I heard quite a few people say soil bud tasted better, I had trouble believing that. I just went and copied this off the greenhouse seeds website about Super Lemon Haze:
The Super Lemon Haze has won the 2008 High Times Cannabis Cup with a landslide of votes. Between the many reasons: its incredibly intense lemony flavour, with a strong haze background. It’s a sharp and intense taste, which reminds of lemon, lime and pink grapefruit, followed by a very earthy and musky haze aftertaste, with traces of incense and black pepper.
The effect is very balanced; it starts with a quick indica-hit feeling that softly moves to a very strong high, with a social and creative side.
The Super Lemon Haze is a very smooth compromise between the great qualities of its parents. It has 9-10 weeks flowering time, and a very typical Christmas tree shape. Plants tend to grow quite tall, but the internodes are not too far apart, and allow easy topping. The leaves are very sativa-like, while bud formation comes dense and has a high calyx-to-leaf ratio.
The Super Lemon Haze is very effective both indoors and outdoors, and responds very well to high-EC hydro systems as well as organic soil setups. When cultivated in soil, the spectrum of terpens is more developed and gives an extra lemony flavour.
The THC is high at over 22%, ensuring a very psychedelic experience to even the most experienced smokers.




 
gladstoned

gladstoned

Well-Known Member
gladstoned said:
I was growing in hydro and thought old timers that were too stubborn to switch was what kept soil popular. I heard quite a few people say soil bud tasted better, I had trouble believing that. I just went and copied this off the greenhouse seeds website about Super Lemon Haze:
The Super Lemon Haze has won the 2008 High Times Cannabis Cup with a landslide of votes. Between the many reasons: its incredibly intense lemony flavour, with a strong haze background. It’s a sharp and intense taste, which reminds of lemon, lime and pink grapefruit, followed by a very earthy and musky haze aftertaste, with traces of incense and black pepper.
The effect is very balanced; it starts with a quick indica-hit feeling that softly moves to a very strong high, with a social and creative side.
The Super Lemon Haze is a very smooth compromise between the great qualities of its parents. It has 9-10 weeks flowering time, and a very typical Christmas tree shape. Plants tend to grow quite tall, but the internodes are not too far apart, and allow easy topping. The leaves are very sativa-like, while bud formation comes dense and has a high calyx-to-leaf ratio.
The Super Lemon Haze is very effective both indoors and outdoors, and responds very well to high-EC hydro systems as well as organic soil setups. When cultivated in soil, the spectrum of terpens is more developed and gives an extra lemony flavour.
The THC is high at over 22%, ensuring a very psychedelic experience to even the most experienced smokers.




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Screwed up, sorry. Lol. Well I read from a few different breeders about a few different strains that even they say soil bud tastes better. That is when I seriously thought about soil and then said fuck it and bought a few bags and tried them along with my hydro. I intend to keep running both until I think I am a master of them. lmao. I have a long long long long way to go.
 
Rising Moon

Rising Moon

Well-Known Member
alotapot said:
This is likely one of the most ridiculous statements I have seen on this site to date.

alp
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Dont miss quote me...

I said : So obviously, anything but organic, is a waste of time, because nature did all the hard work figuring out how to grow these plants for the last billion years, we just have to open our eyes and observe the master gardener herself.

So, I guess your willing to think you can do better than the Earth at growing plants....?

What are we all doing here....?, but trying to grow the BEST, most HIGH QUALITY MEDICINE on EARTH!!!

So, YES, anything but the TRUTH is BULLSHIT in the eyes of evolution and the forces of nature on this planet.

No matter how many bottles you buy, you could never, EVER recreate IDEAL growing conditions in hydro, because the LIVING soil is removed from the picture.

So explain how this is so aburd again?

Are you not seemlessly connected to the eco-system and planet?

Would you want to live off vitamins and IV drip bag? (hydro equivilent)

Or eat a healthy balanced diet, slowly digesting and abosrbing the nutirents your body needs..

I guess we can just hook you right up to the machine, and inject all your body needs, that will make a healthy person right...?
 
abe supercro

abe supercro

Well-Known Member
Great idea to master Both Soil and Hydro, Gladstoned... have seen dense hydro for sure and I know a guy that can leave his garden for up to 2 weeks. However, I'm inclined to believe that the depth of flavor, and high, are more favorable in an organic soil-type environment. This is a subjective opinion from being around both hydro and dirt-type growing for nearly two decades. Both methods have to be dialed-in to have a chance at above average meds.
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
abe supercro said:
Great idea to master Both Soil and Hydro, Gladstoned... have seen dense hydro for sure and I know a guy that can leave his garden for up to 2 weeks. However, I'm inclined to believe that the depth of flavor, and high, are more favorable in an organic soil-type environment. This is a subjective opinion from being around both hydro and dirt-type growing for nearly two decades. Both methods have to be dialed-in to have a chance at above average meds.
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Agreed abe. Good post.

You did touch on the one advantage to hydro .... you can leave your garden (if you trust your timers) for extended periods of time, where as soil is probably a few days tops before it needs to be watered again. I prefer soil myself, but I have had some very nice outcomes with hydro as well.
 
gladstoned

gladstoned

Well-Known Member
I want to buy or make something to water my plants for a week or two. I saw an ad for something in a magazine, but I must have 100 mags. No nutrients solution bullshit, just water. And it sounds stupid but I need to figure out exactly how much water and when to water my plants. Eventually I would like to have both hydro and soil be able to go a week on auto no problem. It shouldn't be difficult. I don't think I will keep keep healthier and stronger as I get older. lol. I completely screwed up my r/o filter, I need to fix that or exchange it or someshit, anyway I will hook that up with a float on a 55 gallon drum and then go from there. Like I said, this should be easy. We will see.
 
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purklize

Active Member
no actually the person that grew the hydro has been doing it for over 15 years in soil and hydro ive smoked both his organic soil buds (that he produces for himself only) and have tried his hydro that he gets rid of and the best is always the soil hands down (it may not yield more but it will produce better flavor and smell in the buds) and if you think that the best tomatoes are hydro you obviously have never had a soil grown tomatoe from somebody that knows what there doing..
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I grew over 1000lbs of organic pesticide free heirloom tomatoes last year...
 
drolove

drolove

Well-Known Member
Rising Moon said:
So, I guess your willing to think you can do better than the Earth at growing plants....?
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lol not me but i bet some of the people on here CAN grow them better than the earth. ya the earth has been growing plants for ever but it has in its soil what ever has built up over the years for nutes and rain for water. if you give the plants everything they need, all the time, in near perfect conditions then ya why wouldnt they turn out better?
 
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kindfarms420

Active Member
purklize said:
I grew over 1000lbs of organic pesticide free heirloom tomatoes last year...
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well maybe you need to work on it because i GUARANTEE that i could grow A better tasting tomatoe or bud out of soil than you could in hydro. im not saying im a better grower than you either just saying the taste of organic soil buds is better it builds more terpentines and ive always felt that hydro burned waaaaay too fast
 
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purklize

Active Member
....sounds like for profit.

just kidding. lmao.
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LOL

well maybe you need to work on it because i GUARANTEE that i could grow A better tasting tomatoe or bud out of soil than you could in hydro.
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Maybe you're just wrong? Those tomatoes were awesome.

Please provide scientific evidence if you're going to make such strong claims... you can't be certain, or even close to it, if all you have is anecdotal evidence, your own experiences... you'd need to do a blind taste test to know. I have never seen someone able to tell if something was hydro or soil during a blind taste test. In fact once I showed someone a hydro bud I grew and he started raving about how it was awesome, rich, earthy, great taste, great fragrance, etc., and said something about how much he likes organic buds... he was a little stunned when I told him it was hydro.

im not saying im a better grower than you either just saying the taste of organic soil buds is better it builds more terpentines and ive always felt that hydro burned waaaaay too fast
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See the above.
 
gladstoned

gladstoned

Well-Known Member
purklize said:
Please provide scientific evidence if you're going to make such strong claims... you can't be certain, or even close to it, if all you have is anecdotal evidence, your own experiences... you'd need to do a blind taste test to know. I have never seen someone able to tell if something was hydro or soil during a blind taste test. In fact once I showed someone a hydro bud I grew and he started raving about how it was awesome, rich, earthy, great taste, great fragrance, etc., and said something about how much he likes organic buds... he was a little stunned when I told him it was hydro.
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See, I personally don't doubt that. That is why I haven't or won't write hydro off. I will stick with both for many reasons. Please give further details on how you do your hydro.
 
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purklize

Active Member
I put 4 DWC buckets under a 400w HPS, each with a giant airstone... in the summer, I put the air pump in front of the air conditioner and it keeps the water temps at a flat 60F even if it's so hot that day that I can't get the room temp below 80 with it running nonstop... I'm going to try putting the air pump inside of a box fridge this year, maybe that will work and be cheaper (they're around 90w instead of 400w+ for a/c). I use Botanicare's nute line and RO water, 3-2-4 + CalMag then 1-5-4 + CalMag, they love it. I pH it to 5.8 and don't go over 700ppm. Plants in DWC are more sensitive to high ppms than ebb&flow, etc. The most important thing is just using a big air pump, big air stones, and keeping the water below 70F... do that and the results will be awesome.

Something that just came to mind, on this topic of organic vs hydro...

A chef that wrote one of my cookbooks shared a story from the restaurant kitchen... she accidentally torched some mushroom soup, burnt the fuck out of it, and had no time to redo it (important clients) so she just served it as is, expecting to be fired... instead her manager said they were raving about her "smoked mushroom soup" and told her "great job on the soup." The imagination is a powerful thing.
 
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