doc111
Well-Known Member
A lot of people want to lump all business in with the bad ones. It's definitely a good thing to single out the bad guys.
Organics ARE chemicals
- Thread starter Heisenberg
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SmokeyMcSmokester
Well-Known Member
organics taste better??
[video=youtube;8Zqe4ZV9LDs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Zqe4ZV9LDs[/video]
[video=youtube;8Zqe4ZV9LDs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Zqe4ZV9LDs[/video]
VICTORYGARDENSHYDRO
New Member
that was awesome, just shows how full of shit most people are.
doc111
Well-Known Member
That was fucking hilarious!!!!!
Here's an interesting study I pulled of the net:
http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/brain-and-behavior/articles/2011/04/10/organic-label-seems-to-make-food-taste-better
I think the power of suggestion is often underestimated when it comes to subjective things such as taste. Unfortunately, most of the studies I found as it relates to health and organic foods seem to suggest that there is no appreciable difference in how healthy organic food is compared to conventionally produced food. I personally believe the power of suggestion is so powerful that if people actually believe they are eating something that is healthier for them, they may actually end up being healthier and living longer. Who knows?
Rrog
Well-Known Member
My thought is that fertilizers upset the balance in soil. In a bucket in your house, who cares. Outside, fertilizers do a lot of damage.
Maybe the organic growers are all being duped, but I tend to follow the anecdotal evidence of experienced farmers. That study linked was comprised of average consumers and I suspect some company may have simply been trying to make a point.
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1989564,00.html
I'd like to err on the side of caution and eat /smoke / drink products free of man-made additives.
Maybe the organic growers are all being duped, but I tend to follow the anecdotal evidence of experienced farmers. That study linked was comprised of average consumers and I suspect some company may have simply been trying to make a point.
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1989564,00.html
I'd like to err on the side of caution and eat /smoke / drink products free of man-made additives.
Nullis
Moderator
You really don't seem to understand the organic growing style (living organics), and your claim seems dubious. You obviously have this extreme, ill-informed, stereotypical archetype that you hold every organic grower\supporter to (obviously you pay highly into these supposed buzz\bubble-words). Now, if anything, such pervasive over-use of chemical fertilizers and other agro-chemicals is going to lead to a food crisis, as soils become increasing less alive; less fertile and there is less competition from other members of the soil food web against pests. Broad-spectrum pesticides will also kill off the harmless and beneficial species of insects that keep pest insect populations at bay, and they have to be applied continuously.That part there really messes my head up....They use every kind of feces there is, dead animal and plant parts, you know, decaying rotting matter to feed the plants and this is "cleaner" than synthetics made in a laboratory environment? Which are the same "nasty chemicals" that make it possible to produce all the food they eat? Without these "evil synthetics" there WOULD NOT BE ENOUGH FOOD FOR US!! Let us just throw out logic in favor of "it makes me fell good". Ok doc, nice seeing you for sure bro but I am unscribing here as am tired of wasting facts on ...well I will just stop there....Enjoy your little bubble worlds "organnies" before they implode
Namaste
Organic growers don't use "every kind of feces there is", or whole animal carcasses, or whatever you suppose. In certified organic crop production the only manures used come mostly from strict herbivores (most bats are fruit eaters, though others eat insects) and they're composted. Feces of omnivores or carnivores is not allowed. Humans feces is not 'organic'; hence sewage sludge is not organic and disallowed. Sludge is, however, marketed and spread as fertilizer on many non-certified organic crop fields.
Blood and bone-meals are used by many (usually bovine-sourced), or hydrolyzed fish, fish-bone, crab and feather-meal fertilizers... still not from just any species of animal and not any part. In garden compost and castings especially there are no animal fats or proteins or other materials that make for nasty decaying matter. Garden compost just smells sweet and earthy, as do humus and earthworm castings... nothing dirty about it, fully alive and humate-rich.
A lot of organic fertilizers (dry granulars) have high contents of industry-byproducts, such as bone-meal, feather meal, cocoa meal, poultry and other manures and various other materials that have a good use in agriculture feeding the soil as opposed to in a land-fill. Composting, vermiculture and soil recycling are the best things you can do as an organic grower as you're directly recycling the nutrients in vegetative wastes that would otherwise really just be wasted and thrown away. A lot of people also just plain find living organics to be easy and fulfilling, indoors and out. All I have to do is mix up a rich well conditioned soil from the start, maybe top feed a couple times and brew a compost tea every other week or so.
Rrog
Well-Known Member
It'll be an ongoing argument for a long time. More studies come out everyday, and they're sure not saying chemicals are good for you. The freakish increase in autism, diabetes (now 366 million and counting), ADS, auto-immune disorders are caused by our man-made environmental factors. Just like the tree-huggers always said. Who the hell ever heard of peanut, lactose and gluten allergies when we were kids? Now they segregate school lunchrooms.
I thought the movie "Dirt, The Movie" had some telling points. We've replaced good old compost with bagged chemicals and we've screwed our kids, the environment, you name it.
Screw it. Everyone here is free to ingest whatever the hell they want.
I thought the movie "Dirt, The Movie" had some telling points. We've replaced good old compost with bagged chemicals and we've screwed our kids, the environment, you name it.
Screw it. Everyone here is free to ingest whatever the hell they want.
doc111
Well-Known Member
Studies CAN be misleading. It didn't seem like that outlet had an agenda but who knows? I am a firm believer in personal choice. If drinking/eating/smoking/vaping "organic" makes you feel like you are leading a healthier lifestyle then go for it! Like I said, I grow and buy/eat/drink/grow organic when possible. I think both sides need to admit that there is a POSSIBILITY that the health benefit of comsuming "organically" produced goods may be minimal, if a benefit truly exists at all, and that we could be doing irrepairable harm by using chemical ferts and pesticides. We just don't know at this point. Perhaps further studies will give us a better idea if there is any REAL benefit to growing/consuming organic products. In the meantime I will keep on doing the best I can. Organic food is fucking expensive sometimes! lol!
Rrog
Well-Known Member
The two issues (other than price, 'cause you're sure right about that) are the health quality of the produce being grown and second, the damage and sustainability of chemical growing crops. I'm talking produce not weed. This week came a serious study that I linked to earlier regarding pesticides and attention deficit disorders. The printed two word recommendation for moms: "BUY ORGANIC"
The next issue is the damage to the soil and water microlife from fertilizers and pesticides. I don't think anyone here would say that global farming hasn't hurt the environment something awful.
I believe food production has failed on both counts. We're trapped using chem ferts to grow corn, and stuck spraying for bugs since we've killed off all natural defenses. Farmers make shit while CEOs at Monsanto can buy nations. This is fucked up.
The next issue is the damage to the soil and water microlife from fertilizers and pesticides. I don't think anyone here would say that global farming hasn't hurt the environment something awful.
I believe food production has failed on both counts. We're trapped using chem ferts to grow corn, and stuck spraying for bugs since we've killed off all natural defenses. Farmers make shit while CEOs at Monsanto can buy nations. This is fucked up.
Rrog
Well-Known Member
As a side note, I respect everyone here and everyone has a right to an opinion. I'm not sure why I wandered to this provocative thread, as I knew full well not one opinion would be changed. And that's cool, since I'm not a paid lobbyist. Cargil and Monsanto have them all! Hahaha. Sorry. I wish compost and earthworms could afford lobbyists.
This thread might be the Chemics vs. the Organics, but let's keep in mind that we are all on the same side here.
This thread might be the Chemics vs. the Organics, but let's keep in mind that we are all on the same side here.
doc111
Well-Known Member
It's all good. I think it's remained fairly civil TBH. Not sure if you looked at the posts from about a year ago but many have been deleted because it got so out of hand. I wouldn't say "not one opinion was changed". I try to maintain objectivity. I'm neither a hardcore organic lover nor hater. I think both "organic" and "conventional" methods have their place. Perhaps one day we will figure out a way to use more natural means to get the desired results out of mother nature, but generally speaking, "conventional" methods outperform "organic" in yields which is all most people and corporations care about. Some people argue that flavor is affected by different methods but we've seen where taste and smell may be just a bit too subjective and we all know that psychology must play at least a small role (and in some cases a HUGE role). I totally agree with you though........we are all on the same side.
Illumination
New Member
http://www.generalhydroponics.com/genhydro_US/biothrive.html
http://www.atami.ca/
http://www.americanagritech.com/organicare
http://advancednutrients.com/hydroponics/products/mother_earth_super_tea/mother_earth_super_tea_product_information.php
http://www.neptunesharvest.com/
See it at all now there Beans?
Corbat420
Well-Known Member
Worm Castings, $20
Bat Guano, $10
Seabird Guano $12
Kelp $15
Molassis $5
Morbloom $18
having Enough organic fertilizer for 40-50 plants for less than $100 that taste like fruit. priceless... haha i had to say it....
i would pay $500+ for hydro fertilizers that do what $75 in organic fertilizers does. then there is someone like me who can harvest the bat / seabird guano, make the worm castings and organic soil..... meaning i only spend $ on seeds and Liquid fertilizers..... i spend like $10 per plant, total. soil, dry and wet fertilizer included.
What beans is saying is Hydroponic fertilizers are a MAJOR scam. you can get the same, or better bud by spending WAY less.
and heres the proof.
BC big bud x NYCDiesel 100% Organic. 32 grams 12/12 from seed.....
Rrog
Well-Known Member
Just another chance to say that back when we started really understanding plants physiology and biochemistry, we started with chem ferts. dozens of years ago. Relatively little study done trying to understand how to optimize nature. Huge studies done to advance the multi-billion $ fertilizer (from oil) and consequently pesticide business.
And these "turn a blind eye" commercial farming practices have ruined the environment. Commercial farming isn't desirable or sustainable. And once again, the latest data shows we've harmed ourselves by blindly eating it for decades. Know an autistic kid? a diabetic? Someone with auto-immune issues? You might thank the commercial food industry.
doc111
Well-Known Member
You may be correct but the studies just aren't there yet. I honestly hope they do pin those diseases down to SOME cause.
Corbat420
Well-Known Member
Diabetes : When the Body Stops producing insolin due to High levels of suger in the blood. there is almost no Diabetes in africa, asia, eurasia or south america, simpley due to the fact that they dont have the sugar content in their foods. North America is going through a diabetes epidemic, which can be DIRECTLY tracked back to the commercial and fast food networks. start to look at labels, dont look at whats in there look at the calorie rating and compair it to the carbohydrates. ALOT of the time its 30%+ Sugar.......
Autism : is a developmental disorder that appears in the first 3 years of life, and affects the brain's normal development of social and communication skills. One of the MAIN Causes of autism is high levels of Mercury, Boron, Manganese, Lead, Aluminum or one of many other metals. North America and Europe are the only places on the planet where autism make such a large appearance that it has now become a "public" issue.
Look up Hydroponic Fertalizers and Chelated Metals. Learn what Chelation actualy is..... there is a reason the Ash from Hydro Plants burns BLACK. when my organic is done burning the ashes are white.....
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=X&ei=mMJ0TqmANe_TiAL4kPizAg&ved=0CB8QvwUoAQ&q=chelated+metals+hydroponic+fertilizer&spell=1&biw=1680&bih=910
P.S: no hydroponic fertalizers cant cause diabetes. i was just trying to make a point
nog
Active Member
everything is a chemical, i think the word organic is getting misused, its how the chemical is produced for the plant, ie is it recyled kitchem waste or a salt the production of which had produced lots of co2 or whatever. but yes the shit turned into a chemical for the plant to use it. its organic if it contains a carbon atom?
Corbat420
Well-Known Member
i figured i would repost it since you didnt read thw whole thing
its on the last page.Chelated metals and Salts are what Hydroponic Fertalizers are made out of. most of this shit you should be scared to have kids around.......... wonder what would happen if your dog, or kid... drank calcium chloride in your CalMag substitute, or the Potassium Nitrate in the Bloom Booster......