Pandemic 2020

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rkymtnman

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so much for herd immunity.
 

rkymtnman

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Most aren't real christians, they bullshit themselves and then everybody else. The bible says, you will know them by their actions, it also says, the truth will set you free, more true than ever with Trump.
no bigger hypocrites on Earth than Christians IMO.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Yeah, it's just America. That's the ticket.

Edit: I think a difference between Canada and the US is how we lean in the cooperative society vs competitive society spectrum.

US leans hard into valuing competition and not so much value in cooperation.
I think the political system promotes tribalism in the USA, particularly registering and identifying as a republican or a democrat, now coupled with the fire of ethnic identity, it promotes strong instinctual feelings that enhance existing social divisions. In Canada it costs (or used to) $10 bucks to join the liberal party and only a miniscule portion of Canadians belong to any party or even identify much with one. About a third of the country are are tories and about 2/3 something else, Trudeau went left of the NDP to gain power! Now we have a minority government and even though Trudeau has troubles, nobody has pulled the plug on him yet. Also political parties are much more hierarchical in Canada and in the UK too, the leaders will kill the cadacy of any racists or obviously corrupt candidate for instance, overriding the local riding vote.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
no bigger hypocrites on Earth than Christians IMO.
I'm taking more the Jimmy Carter type or mainstream Christians who attend regular churches and walk the walk as well as talk the talk and they don't do too much talking. None of those folks like Trump, the evangelicals, born yesterdays and megachurch con men suckers are all in for Trump. I'm an atheist myself and I won't disrespect a sincere person, hypocrites are another matter, even Jesus hated them, he mentioned them frequently.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
I think the political system promotes tribalism in the USA, particularly registering and identifying as a republican or a democrat, now coupled with the fire of ethnic identity, it promotes strong instinctual feelings that enhance existing social divisions. In Canada it costs (or used to) $10 bucks to join the liberal party and only a miniscule portion of Canadians belong to any party or even identify much with one. About a third of the country are are tories and about 2/3 something else, Trudeau went left of the NDP to gain power! Now we have a minority government and even though Trudeau has troubles, nobody has pulled the plug on him yet. Also political parties are much more hierarchical in Canada and in the UK too, the leaders will kill the cadacy of any racists or obviously corrupt candidate for instance, overriding the local riding vote.
From working with people in different cultures, I've seen very different values placed on cooperation and competition. This is a societal difference, not just politics. Japan places very high value on cooperation and consensus. Latin countries have very value in competition between men. Same with France, though less so. US, top to bottom and regardless of sex or gender, we are always looking at our neighbors and co-workers as competition, not people to work with. It's a good and bad thing. Not one or the other.

I don't think somebody like Trump would ever stand a chance in Canada. He has a large following in the US, in part because his rhetoric is so aggressive and he has a history of fighting for every last dime. He's the opposite of cooperative and a lot of people like that in the US.
 

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
He has a large following in the US
also his whole ostentatious facade of Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous with Robin Leech. until you peel away the onion skin and realize it's all smoke and mirrors. I'd be a billionaire if Putin let me borrow a billion too.
 

hanimmal

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From working with people in different cultures, I've seen very different values placed on cooperation and competition. This is a societal difference, not just politics. Japan places very high value on cooperation and consensus. Latin countries have very value in competition between men. Same with France, though less so. US, top to bottom and regardless of sex or gender, we are always looking at our neighbors and co-workers as competition, not people to work with. It's a good and bad thing. Not one or the other.

I don't think somebody like Trump would ever stand a chance in Canada. He has a large following in the US, in part because his rhetoric is so aggressive and he has a history of fighting for every last dime. He's the opposite of cooperative and a lot of people like that in the US.
This is why I have hope about our children taking over. They are teaching them more about inclusion and working together without the bias that the older generations (Anyone that knows what "Leave it to Beaver" is anyways without googling it) have.
 

Dr.Amber Trichome

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less Oklahoma peeps is a good thing. (no offense to you Doc! but i'm talking the people that think that fracking 15000 wells in OK didn't result in all the earthquakes.

even my daughter's school (less than 150 kids) could and should have tested everybody about 3 days prior to the start of school but didn't. hence why I'm homeschooling right now.
Sorry to hear about the testing issues you are having . I hope things get Better for you and your family and that home schooling works out well and is not too difficult for you or your daughter .

Oklahoma is just a pit stop on our way back to Philly/NJ area.No offense taken lol. Everyone that meets me knows I ain’t from these here parts. I guess all the new rage now are these new temp and mask reading devices at the medical clinics and hospital entrances. We just got one . The one we have looks like a masssive I phone type device. F13E269B-A1CB-49C1-8BE1-FE7DE3A818CF.png
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
From working with people in different cultures, I've seen very different values placed on cooperation and competition. This is a societal difference, not just politics. Japan places very high value on cooperation and consensus. Latin countries have very value in competition between men. Same with France, though less so. US, top to bottom and regardless of sex or gender, we are always looking at our neighbors and co-workers as competition, not people to work with. It's a good and bad thing. Not one or the other.

I don't think somebody like Trump would ever stand a chance in Canada. He has a large following in the US, in part because his rhetoric is so aggressive and he has a history of fighting for every last dime. He's the opposite of cooperative and a lot of people like that in the US.
We've had an official government policy of multiculturalism for decades now, Trudeau's dad was sort of a philosopher king type intellectual, the original world's most interesting man and he kicked it off in Canada. With global migration and communications it has become very relevant to the present situation in western countries. Also our bill of rights was a fairly recent creation, again a product of the elder Trudeau and it incorporates strong human rights protections in it among other things.
 

Fogdog

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We've had an official government policy of multiculturalism for decades now, Trudeau's dad was sort of a philosopher king type intellectual, the original world's most interesting man and he kicked it off in Canada. With global migration and communications it has become very relevant to the present situation in western countries. Also our bill of rights was a fairly recent creation, again a product of the elder Trudeau and it incorporates strong human rights protections in it among other things.
Yeah, so, how we ended up going off on this tangent about cooperation versus competition, your post:

When the people of your community honor you with leadership, your first responsibility is their protection before all else, even your own safety, physical or political. This is the only way for a normally socialised leader to behave, they will use and manage all the resources at hand for this task by delegating responsibility to the appropriate experts who can also take action guided by experience and knowledge. Trump failed in every single aspect of the above.
^That right there is a cooperation model of behavior. The US is much more driven by competition and individual accomplishment. So, it's not really our societal norm that our leaders are expected to lead for the good of the people. We give lip service to that ideal but a lot of times it's ignored.

Not 100% of people of the US value competition over cooperation but more than half. Also as hannimal points out, there might be a generation shift in behavior underway. So it's a dynamic in our society too. It's complicated.
 

Dr.Amber Trichome

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that's where me and the wifey relocated from: Illadelphia!! Ship me out some cheese steaks, birch beer and an italian ice when you get there!
Sure thing, I will also throw in some warm soft pretzels in brown paper bag from the off ramp. Lol. I use to eat them every morning for breakfast on my way to classes at Temple. And Hoagies for lunch. I had a terrible diet back then.
 

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
Sure thing, I will also throw in some warm soft pretzels in brown paper bag from the off ramp. Lol. I use to eat them every morning for breakfast on my way to classes at Temple. And Hoagies for lunch. I had a terrible diet back then.
we moved out here from the Langhorne area. there was a pretzel factory that I could almost walk to and 3 awesome hoagie shops within 5 min drive. needless to say, horrible diet as well!! that's really about the only thing i miss here in CO is the food from back east. and then drive to Trenton for the best tomato pie in the world. and don't dare call it a pizza. lol.
 

Dr.Amber Trichome

Well-Known Member
we moved out here from the Langhorne area. there was a pretzel factory that I could almost walk to and 3 awesome hoagie shops within 5 min drive. needless to say, horrible diet as well!! that's really about the only thing i miss here in CO is the food from back east. and then drive to Trenton for the best tomato pie in the world. and don't dare call it a pizza. lol.
Absolutely missing the food is one of the big reasons we are going back. People back East are way cooler As well but can’t touch the beautY of Colorado! The nY pizza is unbeatable . Sicilian is my favorite.
 

DIY-HP-LED

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Yeah, so, how we ended up going off on this tangent about cooperation versus competition, your post:



^That right there is a cooperation model of behavior. The US is much more driven by competition and individual accomplishment. So, it's not really our societal norm that our leaders are expected to lead for the good of the people. We give lip service to that ideal but a lot of times it's ignored.

Not 100% of people of the US value competition over cooperation but more than half. Also as hannimal points out, there might be a generation shift in behavior underway. So it's a dynamic in our society too. It's complicated.
About the only things I know about co operative versus competitive behaviors is they have always co existed in different ratios in all societies. For instance psychological studies done with native children and white children, show a marked prevalence for co operative problem solving than the white kids did, this is more tribal versus civil or settled, small communities versus large impersonal communities that agrarianism fostered. The natives in Canada are fairly left wing, NDP or liberal and they are that way too in south and central America, where much of the strife is between those who perceive themselves as natives and those who see themselves as european is caused by this, the europeans had the power and still do.

I think in the end stress brings out the worst in people and cause a loss of emotional control, some one angry is more likely to use the N word among others, the veneer of civil behavior evaporates. I also think homogeneous societies like Japan, Germany and as America and the UK saw themselves in another age, could work cooperatively, there was more of a sense of caring and unity at all levels. In America as long a brown folks could be excluded deals could be made, but anything that could benefit african Americans in particular was vigorously opposed by a segment of the population that used to be divided among the parties, no longer.

We must form communities to be happy and when we are excluded from a community unjustly if harms society at large, those who refuse to form a community with others different from themselves are to blame for this problem, no one else. Tolerance is not enough, but it will do temporarily until a better generation can be raised who can form communities with those a bit different than themselves. When people form communities they cooperate more with in those communities, I'd say that was a general rule that applies to all of us humans and the first community is our family. Patriotism is about love, for our friends, families, communities and country, patriots want the best for all their fellow citizens and support efforts to attain that goal. Sometimes that might mean fighting in uniform or even on the streets, but always at the ballot box whenever you can.
 
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DIY-HP-LED

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If you don't believe a small group of determined individuals working cooperatively can change the world, tell me when it has been otherwise?
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
I mean a small gang of criminals sure changed the world for a lot of Americans lately, lead by Donald they rode into town on a ready made elephant who was all primed and ready to go. All Donald had to do was blow the dog whistle into a megaphone and it was love at first sight, any moron could have pulled it off and one did.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
If you don't believe a small group of determined individuals working cooperatively can change the world, tell me when it has been otherwise?
I mean a small gang of criminals sure changed the world for a lot of Americans lately, lead by Donald they rode into town on a ready made elephant who was all primed and ready to go. All Donald had to do was blow the dog whistle into a megaphone and it was love at first sight, any moron could have pulled it off and one did.
You seem to be making a morality judgement according to your personal values.

That's OK, just don't expect everybody to simply agree.

I've worked in Silicon Valley. Grew up in my career there. Very competitive, not always cooperative within the company, even between team members. We had a common objective that was linked to individual performance in order for us to achieve career and financial goals We kicked the worlds ass. I've worked in corporations that valued cooperation. Much better environment. Much more stable company that consistently achieved high quality products and customers that simply loved our product. Both were good places to work but very different. Once or twice, we astounded the world but not as often. However, I've always worked for US companies. Even at the most cooperative places, I saw nothing that compared to how it was done in Japan. I can say for sure. Japanese companies never kicked my ass.
 
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