Popular Dynasty Strains

thenotsoesoteric

thenotsoesoteric

Well-Known Member
Ace Yonder said:
Just the way that purebreeding dogs is good for dogs right? Wrong. Inbreeding is ONLY beneficial for us, and unbelievably detrimental to the species being inbred. Genetic variety is the spice of life, hybrid vigor is a REAL phenomenon. If anything, pollen chucking is GREAT for cannabis.
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Sure is.
 
OGEvilgenius

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
Ace Yonder said:
I agree. I have never owned a purebred dog and I have never had a dog develop hip dysplasia, or die at less than 15 years old, and there is DEFINITELY a correlation there.
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Size is related to dysplasia, but even larger dogs are better if they're mutts health wise most of the time. Of course this doesn't eliminate all potential problems all the time but it sure helps.
 
hydroMD

hydroMD

Well-Known Member
Ace Yonder said:
Do 120+lb Doberman/Malamute/Lab mutts count as medium-small? And I don't "Buy" any dogs, I get puppies from the shelter.
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Free puppies from a shelter? Or was their an adoption fee?

Cause if there's an adoption fee it sounds like you bought yourself a dog.

Good job for taking one from a shelter though. Good stuff.

Thats where I bought my pitbull... from a shelter. And hes a pure bred with stiff knees hehe. Hope he hits 15!
 
abe supercro

abe supercro

Well-Known Member
'buying' was a poor choice of words, it's ok to admit it man. ;-) It implies puppymill.


hybrid vigor -
is an attribute from slamming two genetics together. it certainly doesn't cover much of the criteria a cannabis breeder would be after. to use this as a hallmark of reasoning for why poly-hybrids are making cannabis better is kinda silly.
Ace Yonder said:
Just the way that purebreeding dogs is good for dogs right? Wrong. Inbreeding is ONLY beneficial for us, and unbelievably detrimental to the species being inbred. Genetic variety is the spice of life, hybrid vigor is a REAL phenomenon. If anything, pollen chucking is GREAT for cannabis.
Click to expand...
 
Ace Yonder

Ace Yonder

Well-Known Member
abe supercro said:
is an attribute from slamming two genetics together. it certainly doesn't cover much of the criteria a cannabis breeder would be after. to use this as a hallmark of reasoning for why poly-hybrids are making cannabis better is kinda silly.
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"Heterosis, hybrid vigor, or outbreeding enhancement, is the improved or increased function of any biological quality in a hybrid offspring."
I think it applies perfectly, in most plant species true f1 hybrids are by far the most desirable, why should cannabis be any different?
 
abe supercro

abe supercro

Well-Known Member
Ace Yonder said:
"Heterosis, hybrid vigor, or outbreeding enhancement, is the improved or increased function of any biological quality in a hybrid offspring."
I think it applies perfectly, in most plant species true f1 hybrids are by far the most desirable, why should cannabis be any different?
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yes it can create more vigor, i'm not disagreeing with that.

what else would a breeder be looking for?
not vigorous yet diluted, or unstable, genetic soup. inbreeding is required to isolate certain traits or to stabilize a strain profile.
 
Ace Yonder

Ace Yonder

Well-Known Member
abe supercro said:
yes it can create more vigor, i'm not disagreeing with that.

what else would a breeder be looking for?
not vigorous yet diluted, or unstable, genetic soup. inbreeding is required to isolate certain traits or to stabilize a strain profile.
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There is room for both. Extensive inbreeding creates distinct genotypes which can then be mixed to increase vigor while maintaining the desirable traits each parent was bred for. Also this particular argument was about what is good for the plant itself, and vigor is #1 on that list.
 
Sativied

Sativied

Well-Known Member
abe supercro said:
to use this as a hallmark of reasoning for why poly-hybrids are making cannabis better is kinda silly.
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"Kinda" being a bit of an understatement. :)


Many of the popular crops, veggies, ornamental plants, as well as animals, are hybrids. It's Johanssen's work a little over a hundred years ago, his discovery of hybrid vigor, the distinction between phenotype and genotype, the rediscovery of Mendel's work that led to the green revolution, to modern plant breeding. Opposed to what farmers have done for thousands of years. Which can still apply as the best method especially for quantitative traits. I.e. open pollination every generation and used only the seeds from the shortest flowering, biggest yielders, most frosty plants. That is improving a population of a strain. It does not create a new strain, at most an improved version. It's how landraces can be adapted to indoor growing over many generations. It's the work that people (in the US too) put in those classics available at the older dutch seed banks. It's what many self-proclaimed breeders do for no reason whatsoever other than bump the F count.

I explained several times in these forums what an F1 hybrid is, what the point is, the advantages and downsides, I'm "kinda" done sharing science with religious folks here but fuck it... Obviously pollen chucking will never ever lead to a true F1 hybrid. The suggestion is so stupid I will use it to ridicule breeding in the US with all my dutch friends while we dance on wooden shoes and suck on cheese popsicles.

When creating a strain, a cross, that expresses hybrid vigor, it's obviously a requirement to be able to recreate that F1 hybrid from seed, consistently... there's only 1 way to do that. And that's not just retaining any two original parents. That way is also exactly why hybrid vigor works, exists.

Sure, most pollen chucks are indeed poly hybrids, that doesn't mean all poly hybrids are pollen chucks and they are interchangeable lol... simple...

There are many different breeding methods, making F1 hybrids is just one of them. Open pollination / mass selection, backcrossing, selfing (for test crosses), sibling mating, etc, etc, etc. The problem is few people understand when to use what method... and I'm talking very very few. Using 1-1 mating to bump the generation in vain hopes to improve quantitative traits, while using mass selection (put best with best phenos, not necessarily genotypes - also know as recurrent pheno selection) trying to breed in qualitative traits... It reminds of fields with dead crops in Idiocracy.

First step of breeding a new strain (cross breed, not F1 hybrid) is generating variety. In that variety (F2 of true F1 being good sources) you find something new (pheno hunt), which you then breed true as that is the only way to save and reproduce them in seed form - it's except for in the US the whole freaking of point of breeding. Do that with two strains, cross those, and then you got an F1 hybrid that "may" express hybrid vigor, WILL be homogenous (uniform, same pheno) but not homozygous.

Homozygous is a requirement for stable, homozygous leads to homogenous, but at a cost, inbreeding means breeding out genes to make sure both alleles have the same copy of the gene, that is homozygous, that is fixed, locked, bred true. F1 hybrids solve that issue, by crossing two different homozygous lines, you get a homogenous line that is not homozygous but heterozygous, meaning it has a wider genepool, which is the reason behind hybrid vigor, it's in a way the opposite of inbreeding depression (something pollen chuckers cause because they know not what they do.) but sometimes with a bonus, more than the sum of the parents.

So IBL to narrow down the gene profile reducing variety (reducing phenotype variety), then cross with another IBL to widen the gene profile while retaining the lack of variety (=uniformity, major issue if you want to sell the harvest as a whole, or simply count on the seed producing a certain variety, which is the point of breeding a strain in seed form...).

Breeding true is in Belgium called "seed fixed", I like that term, seed fixed... the goal it to fix traits in seeds, not in 'a' plant from which you can take an "elite" cut... doh.

Pollen chucking polyhybrids 'can' be a good thing if the goal is to create diversity, to create a wide gene pool, to create an adaptable population. From which you can breed stable line to create hybrids..., or just label it with a fancy name and a price tag and sell it as a find-a-keeper packs, or perhaps better said, pheno hunt packs.

A parent only gives half it's DNA, by inbreeding till it's homozygous for the essential traits that make it that strain, the breeder can ensure the same genes are passed on by that plant every time. By pollen chucking a couple of plants you don't create that diverse population but a pale shadow of the parents. Inbreeding is good, inbreed depression is not. For simpletons it may seem inbreed depression is an automatic result of inbreeding... it's not, it's a result of breeding useful genes out, something that happens when you keep chucking bag seeds and pollen chucks. Which many breeders know well enough to keep falling back on those ol' dutch strains.*

It's by professionals and educators a well known fact that breeding is both an art and a science. Pollen chucking is like an unskilled painter throwing paint on a canvas and calling it art, real breeding is about creating a master piece using skill and technique.

[insert funny image]

*First seed shop in NL got raided by the cops because of the new growshop law, Kulu-trading, all seeds confiscated and destroyed by the cops. Amsterdam already announced they will be investigating the seed shops too (in addition to the grow shops), some already limited to 5 seeds per person, some moved business partly and/or on paper to Spain...
 
OGEvilgenius

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
So far you've done nothing to educate me personally, but I will say there is a flip side to your argument. And it's a point I made earlier, all that inbreeding... it causes problems. Sure, you can outcross and solve some of the problems. But you've seriously reduced the gene pool in the mean time, even in a hybrid. And less variety means less adaptability. And this is becoming a major problem with commercial crops.
 
abe supercro

abe supercro

Well-Known Member
thump easy

thump easy

Well-Known Member
Sativied said:
...and their origin.

Since you’ve all been so receptive and warmhearted I figured I do another one. I’m starting to see a pattern.

Let’s see, who’s Dynasty seeds.

“It all started in 1996 when professor p moved to a mmj friendly state with a few 100 seeds in search for a fresh start... During his first few years of growing from seed, professor p had realized what healing properties lie within certain cannabis genetics…”

I tried to copy a longer description but if I read the word medicinal one more time I’m going to puke. If you can’t breed, you need an angle. Bodhi for example suckers the “organic” growers, but you also got to love supporting a family business using a special genetics file. For Dynasty it’s all about helping people in need, people in pain. Which for all I know may be true, this is just about linage. :)

And yes, a lot of things started in the 90’s, after the first seed shops in Amsterdam opened up.


I don’t know if they’re popular actually, just picking some random ones.

Oregon Huckleberry
“The Oregon Huckleberry is a product of an ongoing 4 year inbreeding project involving the Oregon Blueberry(clone from the 80s, many say was a vital link in DjShort's BB line)…”

Oooh clone from 80s, “many say…”, sounds original…

That’s however one half of Huckleberry, what turned Oregon Blueberry into Oregon Huckleberry? Crossing it with Morning Glory. What’s Morning Glory I hear someone ask. Well, Morning Glory is a cross based on ( Hawaiian sativa x afghan indica) x Shiva Skunk, made by, take a seat haters, Barney’s Farm. And now you’re of course dying to know where Shiva Skunk comes from. Well, Shiva Skunk is NL#5 x Skunk#1, released in 1987 in Amsterdam. Guess who’s daughter is also called Shiva (yes, you guessed correctly, Ben Dronkers from Sensi seeds).


Caramel Cough = The Cough x Ms Universe

The Cough is NL#5/Haze. Not from Amsterdam, not one of the best strains many breeders used as a starting point (GHS amongst others) but an NL#5/Haze that fell out of the sky.

“The cough is a very special clone only cut of an Old NL#5/Haze.. I first received The Cough in the late 90s from a friend who moved to Oregon from Colorado... At the time I was gifted the cut, I was told it was the original NL#5 clone crossed with a Haze Bros Haze that he had been growing in colorado... He assured me this strain is NOT the same as the NL#5/Haze that came from Amsterdam…” Yeah he was told… but he too knows it’s bullshit, obviously.

MS Universe is Spacequeen cross, which is Romulan x C-99, and C-99 is bag seed from sensi x sensi. I actually like that one, despite the name, never smoked anything with Romulan (canadian) in it.

For MS Universe they listed 4 phenotypes, for caramel cough 5 different phenotypes. They successfully completed the first step of breeding a new variety, generating variation. :clap:

Think-Thank, another C99 x (dutch passion-) Masterkush-cross.

SSH F4 - which they refer to as a reworked Mr.Nice SSH.
Reworked… 1-1 inbreeding till F4… lists 3 different phenos…. chuck chuck chuck.

Cosmic Brain (really.. pretty soon you’re going to run out of stupid names as well).
Afghani x C99. And no, not afghani from one of the seedshop in Amsterdam but Oregon Afghani.

Blue Heron
Based on the Chuckleberry… err.. Huckleberry listed above and Blue Magoo, a clone from a cross based on Blueberry x Williams Wonder that was popular in the 90s in Oregon, about 5-8 years after Williams Wonder appeared in the catalogue of the SSSC in the Netherlands.

Mochalope
Oh… DNA Genetics chocolope… cannalope haze cross, according to DNA is O Haze x Mex Sativa. Starting with O Haze, instead of SSH or NL#5xHaze or Silver Haze is almost noble. Cannalope haze is according to thcfarmer and icmag just another c99 knockoff.

Spider bite (C99 x White Widow) x SSH
is (sensi genetics x ghs lol x shantiba from mr nice, who started GHS with arjan…)
That’s a nice combination though, would have been a winner if it didn’t have the flower time of the SSH. But they get points for trying :clap: Plus, what a great example of a US "strain" (Bag seed from dutch strains x dutch ibls).


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of course im intertained its always loving it always!!!!!!
 
Alienwidow

Alienwidow

Well-Known Member
Wow, Someones been reading world of seeds. The first strain that you reported on Oregon huckleberry, is on world of seeds, but on the dynasty website its called huckleberry kush. And its actually a cross of oregon afghani x huckleberry. And its not the mother (OA) thats crossed with the dj shorts blueberry, its the father (HB) thats hes been breeding for years that he back crossed in the dj shorts blueberry with......i just thought id clarify that for you.

Also the 2012 huckleberry kush that was hand delivered to me from one of the professor P boys thats no longer availible isnt the same as the oregon huckleberry pre 2012. The strain your reporting on isnt even availible from them anymore. You can probably still get the beans from seed companies but thats not what theyre working on these days anymore. Theyve progressed to the new huckleberry strain that is the kush. And let me tell you it is looking phenomenal! It is a sugar coated masterpiece! The stalks are beautiful, the leaves are huge and juicy looking, the buds have started to purple up and it is by far my frostiest plant. As for the smell, i never thought that anything would beat the inticing aroma of cherry pie while still on the plant...well i was wrong. That HBK is the best smelling and the strongest smelling plant im running, outta more than a handfull of strains right now, including wifi, jillybean, cherry pie, NLB, blue shiva, startrek, blue magoo, gdp, and a plie of other crosses. Touching it just once will leave a smell on you that without scrubbing your hands will be picked up by people around you all day!

Also when i talked to professor P he told me that their best strain they offer (currently) is their pineapple fields. And you missed that one completely in your....well whatever that post is above. Man if your going to do a "report" on a seed company at least do more than just read one websites info thats probably five years old. At least go to the companies website and copy past their stuff and hack on that. Otherwise your credibility is going to fall through the floor and people will think your just trolling on good breeders and posting BULLSHIT!!!
I mean cummon sativied, youve never ever run any of professor ps gear or posted even a strain report. What gives you the right to talk a bunch of crap against him?

Cause you know shit?...ya find something better to do with your time besides troll.

 
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