Powdery Mildew

Tangerine_ said:

And I'm not trying to sound preachy but having worked triage and ems I could tell you stories that would curl your toes. I've been up close and personal with the kind of "stupid" I'm referring to.

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But the instructions for canning the tomatos didn't expressly prohibit the insertion of mason jars into the rectum. Somebody is getting sued for this, lol!

I'm with ya, been ems and triage as well. Never ending. We used to amuse ourselves by directly quoting people in the chief compliants lol. Comedy gold in those charts!

Budley Doright said:

I know which one I would choose lol. Would I be safer for it? I doubt it, but why risk it. That's all chem's saying I think, and also, if it's not needed then even better. The same with my 150 acres of certified organic fields, if the shit isn't needed them why bother. I do think that we've been somewhat led down the road that all chems are bad and yup some are very bad. I also believe that if used properly then nope not all bad, and in fact very helpful. But again why risk it if you don't have to. Yes I would choose the non-treated product because I've been told it's bad not that it is bad. Testing would be the only way to know if there is a residue. I know 100% the untreated is free of it, the treated stuff well I'm would wonder "is it"?

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except for the "using it properly" part right?
considering DOW the manu of eagle says dont use it on cannabis, its never going to be used on cannabis, it cant be used on tobacco, except in china, the law says dont use it, the epa, the fda says no way.....could there possibly be a safe way to apply and use this unapproved fungicide on indoor medicinal produce meant for human consumption?

chemphlegm said:

except for the "using it properly" part right?
considering DOW the manu of eagle says dont use it on cannabis, its never going to be used on cannabis, it cant be used on tobacco, except in china, the law says dont use it, the epa, the fda says no way.....could there possibly be a safe way to apply and use this unapproved fungicide on indoor medicinal produce meant for human consumption?

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No there is not lol. I highly doubt any patient would pick the sprayed product over the unsprayed one. As for the patient not caring about smoking it I call bullshit, the relationship between provider and patient is typically close knit and exclusive so the ideal of them forgoing the purchase to find unsprayed product is probably extremely difficult so they take what is given not preferred. Bottom line here is, it is not supposed to be used so don't fucking use it period. We don't have legal dispensaries here yet so god knows what's on the herb, do I still buy it? Yup, I do reluctantly and only in an emergency to replenish the stocks when low. Why? Because it's a pain to look elsewhere. Yes Chem that's a huge reason not to use it, the maker says not to......wow, I can't believe there is even a discussion to defend this .

chemphlegm said:

except for the "using it properly" part right?
considering DOW the manu of eagle says dont use it on cannabis, its never going to be used on cannabis, it cant be used on tobacco, except in china, the law says dont use it, the epa, the fda says no way.....could there possibly be a safe way to apply and use this unapproved fungicide on indoor medicinal produce meant for human consumption?

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Yep, Don't use in flower and just test it before consumption and you'll see there is less than 1 ppb. I don't think there is anything that is considered harmful at less than 1ppb. You get more hydrogen cyanide from smoking any vegetative matter.

That's because you haven't researched and don't understand the way it works.

Budley Doright said:

No there is not lol. I highly doubt any patient would pick the sprayed product over the unsprayed one. As for the patient not caring about smoking it I call bullshit, the relationship between provider and patient is typically close knit and exclusive so the ideal of them forgoing the purchase to find unsprayed product is probably extremely difficult so they take what is given not preferred. Bottom line here is, it is not supposed to be used so don't fucking use it period. We don't have legal dispensaries here yet so god knows what's on the herb, do I still buy it? Yup, I do reluctantly and only in an emergency to replenish the stocks when low. Why? Because it's a pain to look elsewhere. Yes Chem that's a huge reason not to use it, the maker says not to......wow, I can't believe there is even a discussion to defend this .

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Norby Grown said:

Yep, Don't use in flower and just test it before consumption and you'll see there is less than 1 ppb. I don't think there is anything that is considered harmful at less than 1ppb. You get more hydrogen cyanide from smoking any vegetative matter.

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But DOW chemical manufactures it and they say under no circumstances should it ever be used on marijuana, fda, epa, who, marijuana states, tobacco industry and the msds all agree and say you cannot use it on marijuana safely because it is not approved for these crops. but Norby says different?
why would you even consider using it, against all warnings, with that knowledge? to save some clones? really? even though you know you can be mold free without the use of unapproved chemicals on weed?
If you worked for any of those places you'd be fired for describing safe ways to use an unapproved fungicide right?
what scientific evidence do you have that all these companies do not?
what are your credentials for establishing the safety of this otherwise unapproved chemical on weed?

those are questions, not insults. I've been asked all of these since yesterday and you are in a better position to answer.
I really do care about you and your health Norby. These types of anecdotal results are not good enough for you or your garden.
its guess work without these scientists backing it up. If it could be safely used on tobacco for instance, the only other crop intended for smoking, than it would be right? Makes no sense to me that DOW would skip this market, and even speak out about the use of it on marijuana?

Norby Grown said:

Yep, Don't use in flower and just test it before consumption and you'll see there is less than 1 ppb. I don't think there is anything that is considered harmful at less than 1ppb. You get more hydrogen cyanide from smoking any vegetative matter.

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how can you see ppb's in your home testing? why is there any chemicals in your marijuana that shiva herself didnt put there and why would you be comfortable with that? i thought you were on a trek of being and getting healthy? this is no way to begin

That's because they are bound to saying what they have to without going thru the testing. I said what I would choose because I've done teh research. I follow George Carlin's adage "I don't believe a thing my gov't says, nada, not 1 thing". I have said before it is more dangerous to spray it than smoke something sprayed with it. Of course you use a mask when spraying anything, even neem. Anything used indoors is going to be more dangerous since there is no breeze to dissipate.

I said I wouldn't care which one was chosen, I can't speak for other people. And I don't care what people think who haven't even looked at the MSDS studies think. I told you it was 2ml/gall That's 1/4ml per pint. It takes about 4 sprays from a pint to cover a new clone. That's less than a drop. Do you know how much amatoxin it takes to kill you? More than a drop and it's one of the most lethal poisons known to man. I can spray 2-3 clones outdoors in a 10 gal tank. You really are going to get on spraying less than 6 inch clones? Holy shit!!! I can see being worried about spraying a whole crop indoors but less than a drop on a couple clones to make sure you don't have to spray a whole crop is called smart! Rememer only 19% of eagle 20 is myclobutanil so that's less than a drop for a 1/2 doz small clones. I've cracked a few hundred seeds here and my patients loved them all because I'm a good grower, I produce quality and all I use is organic ammendments except silica supplement and twice I used myclobutanil. They didn't want me to get rid of my cuts from seed, until I got GG#4, Skywalker, Master Kush from local cuts. Those are 1/1000 cuts. They're cup winners and my patients didn't think MJ could be that good. They rated them above anything they'd ever had in their life and they aren't beginners they all wanted me to enter into the cup. Till they found it was $1000 and a whole bunch of MJ to enter. ANyway, they have all signed off on me getting cuts and spraying them for quarantine. They know that there is hardly anything being used on them and the clones I take will be new growth, never sprayed. I could just cut clones off of them and throw out the part of the plant that was sprayed and have clones that never got touched by Myclobutanil. I may do that but I know it's not necessary. By the time I clone them in 2 weeks after spraying it'll be another 6 before they go into flower. Then it'll be another 8-10 before harvest. 3 times the time needed to clear myclobutanil from them and more than the longest recorded time that myclobutanil stays in any plant ever tested for it. So I'm glad you are worried about me but no need. I KNOW it is better for me to use a drop when new clones are brought in rather than risk having to spray a whole veg room. I have said over and over the amount I used that was 2mls per gallon and I didn't hardly use a full gallon on my entire veg room each time. So don't worry, I'm never going to have to spray a whole room ever again in my life because of the preventative I choose to use. I deem it safe and my patients know exactly what I am doing. AND I WON"T USE IT BUT 1 X A YEAR WHEN I GET A NEW GARDEN GOING. I'm going to buy 6 cuts and run tehm twice and shut down and start back up 4 months later. I can't do the perpetual garden anymore. I'm going to 6 mos on and 6 mos off so I can get the hell out for more than 3 days at a time. I need a vacation. I leave in 3 weeks for my first vacation since 1997. Traveling the PNW to see 7 Nat'l Parks.
Now we are starting to cover ground that was either covered in the other thread or earlier in this one. Time for me to do other stuff

chemphlegm said:

there is no reason but safety that inclines DOW to not go after tobacco market share, subsequently marijuana markets too. they have the c


ok, now we're getting to the main point.
you say there is no difference. epa, fda, even DOW say NO WAY, but you say its ok. who are you, what labs do you cite, where is this info on msds, why is it not used yet on tobacco. etc. I know the answers but without credibility your assumptions are at most anecdotal to the anyone listening.
.when consumers see the msds, know it cannot be used on tobacco legally, know it can not be used on marijuana legally even.... and know DOW said under no circumstances should it be used on mj, nor will they pursue any market for it,

no Norby, , patients would not choose the treated one unless they were blind and didnt see the msds or DOW s statement.
ounces per acre of treatment////um, ok, stoners be scaling that down for their interior rooms? this shit is not allowed indoors Norby, did you know that? really norby, if you need, by direction protective gear to apply minuscule amounts of this you should not be using it on any body's medicine including your own. dow instructs the applicator in uses of ounces to treat acres..(really, scaled down to a room)? this seems so obvious to me I think you're tugging my chain now defending its use. its ok, you used it, are going to use it over and over again in your rooms for new clones, whatever. I will never use it, I will always advise others to skip over the chems that are not allowed, or ones needing respirators and tyvek suits to apply. I believe this is sound advice.

but know the choice you've made, and know that growers all over produce mold free buds without the use of chemicals or stranger clones even. Mold in the room is a symptom, maybe of not knowing how to avoid others clones, or maybe room controls, either way, it can be remedied without chems it you chose to go that route.
I want you to use this defensive energy to discover how to grow successfully without the use of chemicals not allowed in your garden in the first place because I do care.

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chemphlegm said:

how can you see ppb's in your home testing? why is there any chemicals in your marijuana that shiva herself didnt put there and why would you be comfortable with that? i thought you were on a trek of being and getting healthy? this is no way to begin

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I don't test them at home. Now this is getting to be a pain in the ass. Sorry, no offense but I have better things to do. It's going to be real hot today and i know I'll say things I don't mean to if I type today, sorry. Heat really gets me agitated.

I' beginning by only doing edibles and vaping, this way I don't get any hydrogen cyanide in my body, I suggest you all worry more about smoking than myclobutanil if it gives you more hydrogen cyanide than cigarettes(and probably trace amounts of myclobutanil)! There are no chemicals in my flowers, I tested for the only thing I sprayed on them and they said it wasn't there.

Budley Doright said:

I know which one I would choose lol. Would I be safer for it? I doubt it, but why risk it. That's all chem's saying I think, and also, if it's not needed then even better. The same with my 150 acres of certified organic fields, if the shit isn't needed them why bother. I do think that we've been somewhat led down the road that all chems are bad and yup some are very bad. I also believe that if used properly then nope not all bad, and in fact very helpful. But again why risk it if you don't have to. Yes I would choose the non-treated product because I've been told it's bad not that it is bad. Testing would be the only way to know if there is a residue. I know 100% the untreated is free of it, the treated stuff well I'm would wonder "is it"?

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I've been preaching that all along. Only use in veg to save strains if you see PM, not just because you want to. Only use it on incoming clones so you don't have to spray a whole veg crop. Although I know one person who uses it on every crop before flower because he is allergic to mold or something like that and he can't risk it. Mold would be worse for him than a little myclobutanil. He tests and has never detected it after 6 weeks taking it to a lab to test. Sometimes he wouldn't find it after 5 weeks but decided that 8 weeks should be fine for everything. It worked for me. But I do always recommend testing. Maybe colder temps metabolize it slower. Maybe someone using it at 60-70f wouldn't see full clearing at 8 weeks. It's each persons responsibility to test what they are doing. I did my part.

" Do you know how much amatoxin it takes to kill you? More than a drop and it's one of the most lethal poisons known to man." 1 drop of simple nicotine can kill you, just to put things in perspective regarding your comment.

If more people used eagle 20 on clones they brought in you wouldn't see a thread up here everyday about someone getting PM and you wouldn't have to worry that these people are spraying full crops now would you? I understand you hate it and I do too but it's something that can be used to make sure you don't have to spray a whole crop with anything late stage veg or in flower. You know people use this stuff why not use it in the least possible and get rid of this crap rather then use methods that just hold it back and spread it around?
If people don't listen then thats a listening problem and no banning of anything will ever solve that. Look what they did with MJ, demonizing it and such. Did that work? Well when people read the MSDS and see how much it took over how long a period of time to make testes shrink(it's not a carcinogen or harm anything else from teh testing) they will have the same effect it had for me. I went out and tried coke and heroin because I saw how the gov't was lying to me. I stopped anything other than MJ because I found out myself that coke was worse than MJ even though it's on a lower schedule. Sorry but my thing is telling the truth no matter what the consequences. Thats just me. The truth is I've used it and it worked. I got it from someone spraying weekly with organic products for over 2 years. He hadn't seen it in a year but he never told me and it came in on a clone from him. That's why I decided to use eagle 20. Could something else have worked? I don't know but with his experience I didn't want to risk it and neither did my patietns. they didn't want to go elsewhere, they'd rather have mine sprayed once so they didn't run out. So that's that.

I am a CAREGIVER, not a cash cropper!! And I'm not stupid and I do the research and I'm transparent!

QUOTE="Tangerine_, post: 13672281, member: 924567"]And that's really the jist of it. ^^

But like I said in the last thread, more and more people are growing their own meds or turning to CGs instead of Disps.
This section is bombarded daily with growers seeking solutions. It seems theres a thread about PM every day. And now there are 2 recent threads with pages and pages of "justifications" for E20s use.
Advocating for the use of a dangerous banned product is just flat out wrong, regardless of "personal reasoning" and no amount of warped justifications will change my thoughts on this.

Think of it this way. Most sectors of healthcare err on the side of caution because to but it bluntly, people are fucking stupid. A person can be smart but people as a whole are not!

Its absolutely safe for pregnant women to have a glass of wine but the standard advise given is to ingest none. Why? Again, because people are stupid. They don't hear/read "only on clones" or "only one glass". They just don't.

And I'm not trying to sound preachy but having worked triage and ems I could tell you stories that would curl your toes. I've been up close and personal with the kind of "stupid" I'm referring to.[/QUOTE]

You know you can look these things up right?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3880486/
People have survivrd over 4g of nicotine and nicotine is one of the most toxic things to humans, moreso than rats and mice and stronger than cyanide. I said amatoxin which is ONE of the most toxic. Now that's how much you'd put on 6 clones or more(remember only 19% of eagle 20 is myclobutanil) 120 days before harvest if you use them on new clones. Just for some perspective!
Now I have to leave. People are not debating, tehy are just trying to prove they are right and that's starting a whole misinformation trend, sorry, that will definitely push me over the edge today.

Werp said:

" Do you know how much amatoxin it takes to kill you? More than a drop and it's one of the most lethal poisons known to man." 1 drop of simple nicotine can kill you, just to put things in perspective regarding your comment.

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people may have survived but from your link

"Nicotine is a toxic compound that should be handled with care, but the frequent warnings of potential fatalities caused by ingestion of small amounts of tobacco products or diluted nicotine-containing solutions are unjustified and need to be revised in light of overwhelming data indicating that more than 0.5 g of oral nicotine is required to kill an adult."

Also, how much would a drop of pure nicotine weigh?

So what. still not enough to kill someone from one of the most toxic things known to man. And you spray that on 6 clones or more and wait 120 days. That vegetative material isn't consumed. Wheter amatoxin or nicotine you still wouldn't get any in your body. Your nicotine comparison is a moot point. You missed the point.

Werp said:

people may have survived but from your link

"Nicotine is a toxic compound that should be handled with care, but the frequent warnings of potential fatalities caused by ingestion of small amounts of tobacco products or diluted nicotine-containing solutions are unjustified and need to be revised in light of overwhelming data indicating that more than 0.5 g of oral nicotine is required to kill an adult."

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How do you know that eag 20 doesn't convert some of the plants natural chemicals/hormones into toxic ones ...ones that you aren't testing for?

Because I'm God!

Werp said:

How do you know that eag 20 doesn't convert some of the plants natural chemicals/hormones into toxic ones ...ones that you aren't testing for?

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Good to hear-- at least if one of your guinea pigs/patients dies as a result of your experiments, you'll be able to raise him from the dead.

Werp said:

Good to hear-- at least if one of your guinea pigs/patients dies as a result of your experiments, you'll be able to raise him from the dead.

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LO-fucking-L

No pics of clean "organic nugs".....anybody?

No pics of " chem spray nugs"..anybody?

What's pure unaltered weed look like?

Is this still about PM?