Promises kept By Obama
- Thread starter dukeanthony
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sync0s
Well-Known Member
Couldn't possibly be as closed as yours is.
You're arguing now. I'm talking about before to bubble collapse. I want to know how I'm not close on the charge that the dems are just as guilty.
No...?
The Ruiner
Well-Known Member
The point (which I hope you can understand) is that a large contingent of Middle East countries WANT the US to have a large and powerful presence in the region to act as a deterrent to aggressive Iranian actions. Whoever is president doesn't really matter when it comes down to it. Futhermore, no one REALLY wants a war with Iran.
Despite McCain's rhetoric (and that of Bush and Obama) there is no real initiative to war with Iran. Military brass has been quite hesitant towards even insinuating such an idea, while politicians have continued the sabre-rattling rhetoric.
The Ruiner
Well-Known Member
I think he meant "move in" in a political sense...which is totally accurate. Religion has a major part to play in this dilemma - it's not about actual, physical occupation. Why war with your neighbor when you can manipulate it's politics from the protection of your own borders? This is the problem facing the Iraq/Iran issue. Iran IS a repressed nation, if you can't see that then I don't know what else to tell you. Iran has been and is a country of highly questionable leadership, this is not just the president, but the ayatollahs. They are the real problem.
If there was any strike on Iran, it will be a multi-target simultaneous strike on known nuclear and weapons facilities. Because these are spread out through Iran, it would take a massive logistical effort with extremely high risk. It's pretty unlikely.
The world isn't a Democracy though, It should make no difference how many countries want us to deter Iran. Why should I be forced to pay for the defense of countries that provide me little benefit other than sometimes cheap oil?
The Ruiner
Well-Known Member
Because if the balance of power in that region is upset, it will upset the balance of power of the world, which will in turn create a state of chaos and panic?
Is that a good enough reason? Or do you want to think that America is immune to effects of the world beyond it's borders?
sync0s
Well-Known Member
The point (which I hope YOU can understand) is that Obama lied to Americans. I don't care the reasoning.
While I realize they are repressive and the leaders have many religious motives combined with personal vendettas, why is that any business of ours? Why should we want to bomb them into the stone age because of nuclear tech? Why aren't we going after N Korea for the same thing? Who gave us the authority to arbitrarily decide which countries can have certain technologies and certain ones can't? If Iran nukes anyone the entire country will cease to exist about 30 minutes later. A glass parking lot, uninhabitable for years afterward. Iran sees it's country being surrounded by forces of occupation in the neighboring countries. Its like China occupying Canada and Mexico one day and the you think the USA wouldn't get nervous and want to protect itself? If Iran has a Nuke , it won't have to entertain the thought of US Occupation and can stop worrying about Troops running over her borders.
The Ruiner
Well-Known Member
Lied about what, dude? What ?
Who said anything about "bombing them into the stone age"? I am talking about a surgical strike limited to certain targets. It's not just the US, there are plenty of countries reticent of Iranian nuclear capabilities. If you can see that they would be entirely bombarded if they did indeed attack someone, when why do they continually intentionally deny access to it's nuclear program? Why are they one of the most secretive nations on earth?
Like N. Korea, Iran is a rogue regime prone to irrational actions (maybe not as bad as N. Korea, but they are still reckless). If N. Korea could be safely denuclearized, it would happen. But to force it to happen endangers millions of people. Why allow another arrogant country the same capability? Iran fucked up with the US forty years ago, and has tried desperately in the past to reconcile because they know that they can't ever get where they want to be if the US doesn't allow them. Problem is that they haven't changed their ways, and have only in turn made things worse for their nation and its people.
China would never, and could never, occupy mexico or canada...Monroe Doctrine.
Charlie Ventura
Active Member
Typical lib.
Free speech for me but not for thee ... translated = Cut & paste for me but not for thee.
Free speech for me but not for thee ... translated = Cut & paste for me but not for thee.
The Ruiner
Well-Known Member
Who are you talking about, Charlie?Typical lib.
Free speech for me but not for thee ... translated = Cut & paste for me but not for thee.
for starters getting us out of Afghanistan as one of the first things he'd do. Not using our military except in defense. he's a war monger. we're in 6 countries fighting
We don't invade countries with nukes. We have no business telling sovereign nations how to run their countries.
because countries with nukes don't attack us. They know it is foolish. Like I said they have no reason to since we are not illegally occupying their country. North Korea is a much bigger threat to themselves with their nukes. They use them as a threat to get subsidized.
Why wouldn't they be upset with us? We've been killing innocent citizens over there for decades. We are the ones who need to change our ways. Our foreign policy is horrible. Once we leave Americans don't get killed. When we left Lebanon the attacks against us stopped.
Plain and simple China isn't powerful enough for that situation to happen. Unlike us who are powerful enough to occupy the Middle East. Team America F yea!!!
sync0s
Well-Known Member
Oh... jesus christ....
This is what happens when you jump into the middle of a debate without reading the posts before hand.....
The Ruiner
Well-Known Member
This isn't the wizard of oz, you cant just click your heels three times and poof, the troops are home.
We have numerous reasons why we can and do interfere with other countries: if they want to be a part of the world economic system, there are rules to play by. Iran knows this, and has tried to ignore it for decades.
Your response to why we should allow Iran WMD's is quite incoherent. This isn't just about the US involvement, it has to do with the stability of the region as a whole.
What "innocent civilians" are we killing in Iran? This is just some knee-jerk non-sensical argument with no basis in reality. Our foreign policy concerning Iran is circumstantial - if they were willing to abandon their less-than-desirable practices, we wouldn't have cornered them. Furthermore, there have been substantial sources claiming direct Iranian high-level involvement in coordinating attacks against US troops in Iraq. In other words, they had taken the initiative to kill US troops.
As far as the US "occupy(ing) the middle east" this is another fallacious argument with no basis in reality. We can project force, but no one with any sense thinks that we can just "occupy the middle east."
why
Why don't you want others to receive the same basic rights they were born with? Another control freak who thinks he knows how to run others lives better than they do. Since when is another nations oil automatically part of OUR economic system? Quit forcing your rules on others.
That's the big problem. We are more concerned about stability than freedom and liberty. The people in the Middle East have been saying that for a long time.
Taking the life of an individual that poses no threat to you is non sensical?
http://www.federaljack.com/?p=143430
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/anwar-al-awlakis-family-speaks-out-against-his-sons-deaths/2011/10/17/gIQA8kFssL_story.html
We forced them into the corner with our policies. But their lives matter little to someone like you. They're just animals who don't deserve basic rights. We are doomed.
We already are occupying. Read the CIA Report from the Bin Laden unit. That is one of the reasons they gave us for attacking.
[video=youtube;udz5_FdoFGU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udz5_FdoFGU[/video]
The Ruiner
Well-Known Member
"why?" is hardly a response.
We do not run the government of Iran, therefore we are not repsonsible for the repression on behalf of their leaders towards the general populace. Our economic system IS the WORLD economic system - that's just how it is dude.
Without stability there will be no chance of "peace and "freedom." That you can make an argument for the latter two only shows ignorance towards the importance of the former.
What does a terrorist killed in Yemen have to do with Iran? Are you following along ok?
They forced themselves into that corner, they have had numerous chances to put down their questionable practices and have chosen the path of state sponsored terrorism. That is the problem with their leadership, not the Iranian people, even though you continually think I have something against the Iranian people themselves. Try to stay on topic, and relevant.
Having bases in other countries is hardly "occupying," I can understand how deciphering the difference is difficult for you to understand, but occupations requires many resources to be dedicated than our current presence in those countries.
explain why you cant pull them out quickly
I can understand how deciphering my response to your comment is difficult for you to understand.
that's just how it is LMAO because you say so
We bribe countries, if they dont do what we say we change our tactics.
You don't get it. Ever hear of blowback? How is that stability working? Al Qaeda is stronger in Iraq and is now in Libya for starters. You don't even know that yet you call me ignorant.
You follow nothing but failure. Same plan as always isn't it. How well is that working?
It is on topic you clueless buffoon. You cannot kill the terrorists but you can kill the reason they become terrorists.
You are not only ignorant, you are dimwitted. You haven't addressed anything I've said except to say because YOU said. The poster who would be King. Your way stinks. It has cost the lives of over 600,000 people in the Middle East.
We went to the Middle East uninvited. Our troops use force and occupy others lands. But you're okay with that because rights dont matter to "those people" right. You don't care about people, you don't care about rights, all you do is use force to get what you want.
We wouldn't sit still if China brought troops over to our mainland to protect economic interests, but leading by example is for the other guy right?
Canna Sylvan
Well-Known Member
Parker,
I already have The Ruiner on ignore. His idea of peace and freedom is when there are no deaths from war. But, he would have the world governments exterminate all dissenters the moment they utter a word. His opinion would be William Wallace was a cry baby. Not only is having the king's men rape your wife ok, you should watch with a smile, put your hand under your kilt and proceed to pleasure yourself. Subjugation isn't peace and freedom. It can be magnitudes worse than war.
It's hard to believe The Ruiner is a member of the human race. That there'd be anyone who agrees with the patriot act. I have to try and fool myself that people like him don't exist and are just some artificial intelligence experiment set loose on the internet to troll. Or else I would cry myself to sleep everyday in the fetal position.
About the only thing the US government does which makes me cry is how our foreign troops do what we do. Rape, murder and mutilate a puppy. All for fun. It's sick. The occupy need to stfu. The government is the real total world occupy. We don't have armed troops enforcing curfews with machine guns here. We do that to all other countries in the name of liberation.
I already have The Ruiner on ignore. His idea of peace and freedom is when there are no deaths from war. But, he would have the world governments exterminate all dissenters the moment they utter a word. His opinion would be William Wallace was a cry baby. Not only is having the king's men rape your wife ok, you should watch with a smile, put your hand under your kilt and proceed to pleasure yourself. Subjugation isn't peace and freedom. It can be magnitudes worse than war.
It's hard to believe The Ruiner is a member of the human race. That there'd be anyone who agrees with the patriot act. I have to try and fool myself that people like him don't exist and are just some artificial intelligence experiment set loose on the internet to troll. Or else I would cry myself to sleep everyday in the fetal position.
About the only thing the US government does which makes me cry is how our foreign troops do what we do. Rape, murder and mutilate a puppy. All for fun. It's sick. The occupy need to stfu. The government is the real total world occupy. We don't have armed troops enforcing curfews with machine guns here. We do that to all other countries in the name of liberation.