natro.hydro
Well-Known Member
I will say this, bill could never sound as retarded as Sean Hannity.... Dude just blurts shit out with little to no reflection of what he is saying lol.
Quantum Kush 38% THC?
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Amos Otis
Well-Known Member
Word. Both basically use their guests as props, and will talk over them in a second if they start making a positive case the host disagrees with. #1 complaint. I'd love to see Hannity canned. Dude hurts his own causes. FWIW - O'Reilly's report on black market pot dealers in CO was seriously lame.
natro.hydro
Well-Known Member
Who thought it was just a riot when megan kelly roasted cheney's old ass about Iraq lol. i was dieing, kinda surprised she still has a job... Anybody think murdoch ill succeed with his dream acquisition of Time-Warner?
Pass it Around
Well-Known Member
Thundercat
Well-Known Member
All jokes aside that bus is fucking awesome!!! I would love to drive my daughter around in that!!
Pass it Around
Well-Known Member
just because the bus is short doesn't mean the party is small.
ayr0n
Well-Known Member
The worst is "The Five" where the 4 republicans sit around and bash the 1 democrat lmao. They just sit there like "so what do you think Bob? Oh well you're fucking retarded."
TonightYou
Well-Known Member
See the federal debt is actually pretty interesting of a topic, and I agree, I enjoy a civil conversation with people with different ideas and opinions.
One of the common misconceptions is federal debt is the same as person or a business holding debt. Every time I hear the phrase "treat it like a family's personal debt", I cringe. These types of finacial analogies couldn't be any more different.
Federal debt actually is a good thing. Now some of you may be going "what? All debt is bad, we need to have a a balanced budget!"
Nonsense, in fact the CBO was worried in the late 90s as Clinton's debt reduction posed potential problems that "family table finances" would never face. One of the most important and benchmark finch tools is Treasury notes. Most if not all of us hold some in our investments and retirement accounts. More importantly many countries and businesses around the world use T notes for a variety of reasons. These include stability (always have repaid our debts), predictability, and as hedge against instability. Without national debt, the United States would be at a disadvantage. These disadvantages including weakened position of the buying power with the dollar, moving capital to probably EU countries, and loss of finacial influence around the world.
When it comes to debt for a country, and what level is acceptable depends on a variety of factors. These include credit worthiness, finacial outlook, potential growth and more. Many countries have lopsided debt ratios and function just fine. The sky doesn't fall, and the countries continue to be just fine. Not to say in the US case that would he acceptable due to us being the world's reserve currency, but the United States is not in a critical moment by any means with regards to debt.
I guess my question would be, where were the conservatives when we had a budget surplus? They were championing sending everyone a measly refund instead of using that money for reinvestment. Where was the out cry of going to war with two countries on credit, telling Americans to go spend money?
During the finacial crisis the government had to step in and become a buyer of last resort. We still are buying bad debt off of banks. This was suppose to help everyday Americans, where is the outcry of banks gaining massive profits and still not lending money to the average consumer and small business?
One of the common misconceptions is federal debt is the same as person or a business holding debt. Every time I hear the phrase "treat it like a family's personal debt", I cringe. These types of finacial analogies couldn't be any more different.
Federal debt actually is a good thing. Now some of you may be going "what? All debt is bad, we need to have a a balanced budget!"
Nonsense, in fact the CBO was worried in the late 90s as Clinton's debt reduction posed potential problems that "family table finances" would never face. One of the most important and benchmark finch tools is Treasury notes. Most if not all of us hold some in our investments and retirement accounts. More importantly many countries and businesses around the world use T notes for a variety of reasons. These include stability (always have repaid our debts), predictability, and as hedge against instability. Without national debt, the United States would be at a disadvantage. These disadvantages including weakened position of the buying power with the dollar, moving capital to probably EU countries, and loss of finacial influence around the world.
When it comes to debt for a country, and what level is acceptable depends on a variety of factors. These include credit worthiness, finacial outlook, potential growth and more. Many countries have lopsided debt ratios and function just fine. The sky doesn't fall, and the countries continue to be just fine. Not to say in the US case that would he acceptable due to us being the world's reserve currency, but the United States is not in a critical moment by any means with regards to debt.
I guess my question would be, where were the conservatives when we had a budget surplus? They were championing sending everyone a measly refund instead of using that money for reinvestment. Where was the out cry of going to war with two countries on credit, telling Americans to go spend money?
During the finacial crisis the government had to step in and become a buyer of last resort. We still are buying bad debt off of banks. This was suppose to help everyday Americans, where is the outcry of banks gaining massive profits and still not lending money to the average consumer and small business?
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
These are two important points. Ones that I have raised myself in conversation with my conservative friends/family.
I used to follow politics very closely, but I have come to the unfortunate conclusion that it just doesn't matter. Whether it's Reagan, Clinton, Bush, or Obama the game is rigged. These elected leaders of ours do NOT work on our behalf. They are schills for corporate America. Once the Supreme Court ruled that corporations are people, and have the ability to funnel billions of dollars in to campaign coffers the writing was on the wall for me. The script is obvious, and troubling. You cannot have corporate money and influence in Washington like this and expect anything other than coruption and scandal.
I've tuned out. Being lied to and manipulated is not something I'm cool with.
TonightYou
Well-Known Member
I wish I could be apathetic and not care, I really do. The game is rigged towards those with money. I see it every day.
I don't want to out myself but I work for a very rich, multi millionaire family who is politically connected. They have access and the ability to influences legislation as well as the judicial system. Something the average man has no idea how much it distorts honest public discourse.
Good examples? "Death taxes", something I guarantee no one on this board really had to ever deal with. But rich people hate them. Yet the average American was duped and believed that they wouldn't be able to pass their meager savings (relative to those it did affect) to their kids when they die. Yet none of the idiots railing about it would have even qualified to be taxed in that situation.
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
It's not that I don't care. I'm just choosing to tune out. The cable news networks never see the light of day in my casa.
As for the "death taxes" I kind of part ways with liberals on this. That money has been earned, and taxed already...... why should Uncle Sam get to dip in again? If more taxes/revenue needs to be raised there are other ways of doing it. Re-visit the tax code, and simplify it. Close all of the loop holes. Cut out the subsidies and tax breaks for giant corporations that are making billions every quarter. Stop sending billions in "aid" to countries like Israel that don't need the money. Stop waging trillion dollar wars all over the globe.
TonightYou
Well-Known Member
I'll agree with stopping some aid.
The argument for those taxes is that since wealth is being transfered, it should be taxed just as any other financial transaction is. That person x did pay taxes, but receiver y has not on that transaction. Prior to changing the "death taxes" the rates were progressive and the first $500 k was not taxed. Do you know how few people in the United States actually had that much wealth or assets at the time of death? Very few. Take this into consideration, the average person retiring today only has $43 k for retirement... we are going to have issues with poverty amongst the elderly within the next 10-20 years.
I think the problematic issue in the US is everyone thinks that they are simply "a temporarily poor millionaire"
Like i said, I've seen kids literally become millionaires, never working a day in their life to deserve such funds only because they won the genetic lottery and popped out of a rich vagina.
Pass it Around
Well-Known Member
If the big corporations of america paid taxes we wouldn't be in this situation. Everyone is making a killing off of the working people as well as selling a bunch of military equipment all over the world. Yet that money seems to just sit in bank accounts.
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
Sure. There are many cases where this is true. It doesn't make it OK to tax that money though. Some people work damn hard for that money. Some folks start from nothing and over the course of a lifetime amass a fortune. Sometimes those kids that stand to inherit the fortune had a hand in the family business. Take the Illitch's for example. They started with one pizza shop, and turned that in to a multi-billion dollar business. I know Denise Illitch. She works hard. When Mike and Marian pass away the Illitch kids will have everything turned over to them. It's not that I feel badly for them if they get hit with a huge tax bill. They'll still have plenty of money and assets left over ...... but it still doesn't make it right.
And besides, what will come of this money when turned over to the feds? It will be pissed away on war, corporate welfare, and aid to countries that don't need it.
TonightYou
Well-Known Member
See that's an issue all within itself too. I've changed my mind on corporate taxes, that should be paid and not stashed overseas or using inversion. I'd be happier with lower corporate taxes with less loopholes in addition to higher taxes on the wealthy. This would be a more progressive tax system than we currently have.
TonightYou
Well-Known Member
I understand that sentiment, I do but the deceased worked for it, not only that they are in a position to pay it. Let's say you died today (not that I would hope for that), you more likely than not would not have to worry about your estate being taxed when past down. Not only that, a "death tax" should be progressive in nature.
In my imaginary world it would look something like this:
First $500 k - 0%
$500k-750k -5%
$750k-1mil -10%
Again these are made up, and certainly not ridiculous when comparing other countries estate taxes. Shit, it's cheaper than sales tax here plus ya didn't even do shit to earn this income. Certainly not too cumbersome by any means.
Eta- I hate my money going to private schools, for profit prisons, the war machine, corrupt world governments, countries that participate in genocide or currently are trying and most of all corporate welfare particularly when GE essentially pays no tax.
Unfortunately as a society this is how collectivism works
ayr0n
Well-Known Member
Too bad I didn't pop out of one of those.
So you'd prefer the corporations are taxed less to encourage economical growth, jobs, etc, but tax the individuals who own the corporations more to compensate for the lower corporate tax? I'd sign that shit
Good luck getting the bill through tho lmao. Too bad democratic politicians aren't actually as poor as Hilary thinks she is. Left wing politicians have just as much money and just as much incentive to fuck the little guy - just in a different way Not sure where I stand anymore as they all disgust me.
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
I'd start with rasing the bar on social security withholdings, and raise the capital gains tax. To me that's a big one, and that is how wealthy folks get away with murder. It's criminal that an average Joe can pay a higher tax rate than a billionaire becasue average Joe is taxed at 30%+ for his $40k a year in ordinary income, while Joe Billionaie is taxed at 18% becasue the vast majority of his earnings (on purpose) are stock options.
Treat capital gains as ordinary income. Seems fair to me.