DonTesla
Well-Known Member
hahahaha respect bro.
MuhammaDon Ali!
Floatin like da pollen,
stingin like a bee!
defensive over mother,
nature, but pH? shit,
whats that, G?!
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Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread
- Thread starter headtreep
- Start date
MuhammaDon Ali!
Floatin like da pollen,
stingin like a bee!
defensive over mother,
nature, but pH? shit,
whats that, G?!
DonTesla
Well-Known Member
I welcome any and all challenges. Lets shed fallacies, lets bust myths. Scariest thing about Doubting the Dons, is it just ups our Organic IQ, so we thank you for that...we care not to defend our position, per seh, mon...we care to defend the best position.. our way is therefore, truly, extremely and thoroughly organic. Its always changing, refining.. it gets more complex then its re-simplified, thus broken down to the best way mon, and by best, i mean the most super-natural (zero commercial bottled products), cleanest, tastiest, meanest, most exotic therapeutic medicine that money can NOT buy.
What are the minimum effective doses, mon? How would this be emulated in nature, mon? Think of worm castings and insect frass and teas, how would this play out in nature? what about watering at different times, for example.. lets get natural wit it. If i could use the sun i would, but i even feel bad mainlining (love it too) and flipping girls early.. that being said one of the very next journals we are doing will be a single plant, Mainlined into a 64-cola beast! of the ever so touted, elusive, and renown Black Forrest, no less, unavailable to the general public for some reason.. wowwww. 16 weeks flowering time, and at least 60 - 80 days veg. She gonna be a project and a half.. extremely epic smoke I'm ensured. Big up to the Rev and the Petro for this one! Its about growth, and we GONE GROW!
What are the minimum effective doses, mon? How would this be emulated in nature, mon? Think of worm castings and insect frass and teas, how would this play out in nature? what about watering at different times, for example.. lets get natural wit it. If i could use the sun i would, but i even feel bad mainlining (love it too) and flipping girls early.. that being said one of the very next journals we are doing will be a single plant, Mainlined into a 64-cola beast! of the ever so touted, elusive, and renown Black Forrest, no less, unavailable to the general public for some reason.. wowwww. 16 weeks flowering time, and at least 60 - 80 days veg. She gonna be a project and a half.. extremely epic smoke I'm ensured. Big up to the Rev and the Petro for this one! Its about growth, and we GONE GROW!
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
Good stuff guys. The nice part about the organics section is that we can disagree but it still stays civil. Much to learn, and this is how it happens.
P is new to some of you guys, but I know him from a couple other sites. He's a really good guy, and he really knows his stuff.... so when he talks I listen. I don't always agree, but I listen.
Anyway, much respect to all of you organic ganja growers. Doin it up the right way.
P is new to some of you guys, but I know him from a couple other sites. He's a really good guy, and he really knows his stuff.... so when he talks I listen. I don't always agree, but I listen.
Anyway, much respect to all of you organic ganja growers. Doin it up the right way.
Something just seems so right about using peat over coco, if a real live mix is what the aim is, shouldn't the logical choice be something that contained numerous plants decomposing for god knows how long over something like the fibrous material insides of a fruit.
We are trying to mimic the forest, and using more decomposed forest-stuff just seems like the natural choice. After reading a bit and learning about it, it does seem coco is the more sustainable choice.... by far.
We are trying to mimic the forest, and using more decomposed forest-stuff just seems like the natural choice. After reading a bit and learning about it, it does seem coco is the more sustainable choice.... by far.
Pattahabi
Well-Known Member
I'm really high and really tired. Just finished trimming a couple of white urkel plants. (I freaking hate trimming). So this is going to be a ramble lol.
Sorry, I probably came off the wrong way. I will respond to this. I think it's a great subject. I do appreciate everyones input because this is how we learn and grow. I started doing a little digging, and I will do more. I am slated to be afk for several days and preparing to be gone so I don't have as much time as I would like to spend on this now. I this it is a worthy topic that I would like to look into a little more.
From some of the academic papers I looked through kind of quick looks like people started seeing stunted plant growth from using more then 50% coco coir. I do very much agree with below66, there does seem to be something so right about using peat - to me it's the microbe life. I totally did not realize coco was high in potassium. Not a chance I would replace kelp with coir. My mentality in growing is not what can I add to my mix, but what can I remove. I want as few as ingredients as possible, with the maximum benefit.
I need to get a better cec on peat, but I found this on coir:
http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/31/6/965.short
Again, briefly, looks like water holding and aeration ability are very dependent on particle size and location harvested.
http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/32/5/844.short
http://www.publish.csiro.au/paper/EA02128
http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/40/7/2138.short
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960852401001894?np=y
My ultimate goal will be to try and incorporate leaf mulch and other local amendments into my mix. My goal is always to be as sustainable as possible, without getting too crazy on it.
Do Rev and Subcool reuse their soil?
P-
Sorry, I probably came off the wrong way. I will respond to this. I think it's a great subject. I do appreciate everyones input because this is how we learn and grow. I started doing a little digging, and I will do more. I am slated to be afk for several days and preparing to be gone so I don't have as much time as I would like to spend on this now. I this it is a worthy topic that I would like to look into a little more.
From some of the academic papers I looked through kind of quick looks like people started seeing stunted plant growth from using more then 50% coco coir. I do very much agree with below66, there does seem to be something so right about using peat - to me it's the microbe life. I totally did not realize coco was high in potassium. Not a chance I would replace kelp with coir. My mentality in growing is not what can I add to my mix, but what can I remove. I want as few as ingredients as possible, with the maximum benefit.
I need to get a better cec on peat, but I found this on coir:
http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/31/6/965.short
Again, briefly, looks like water holding and aeration ability are very dependent on particle size and location harvested.
http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/32/5/844.short
http://www.publish.csiro.au/paper/EA02128
http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/40/7/2138.short
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960852401001894?np=y
My ultimate goal will be to try and incorporate leaf mulch and other local amendments into my mix. My goal is always to be as sustainable as possible, without getting too crazy on it.
Do Rev and Subcool reuse their soil?
P-
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Pattahabi
Well-Known Member
Thanks Stow. I have much respect for yourself and others on here. Provided people are contributing sensible information (not the hydrostore, bro science, bs) I want to hear what people have to say. We all spend our time and energy typing on these forums, building our convictions. Sometimes we have to take a step back and re-examine why we do things. Still not buying coco replacing peat, but lets throw down the info and see what we can find.Good stuff guys. The nice part about the organics section is that we can disagree but it still stays civil. Much to learn, and this is how it happens.
P is new to some of you guys, but I know him from a couple other sites. He's a really good guy, and he really knows his stuff.... so when he talks I listen. I don't always agree, but I listen.
Anyway, much respect to all of you organic ganja growers. Doin it up the right way.
P-
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That bud is flying sky high, taking in the view before it takes you there.
Since coco breaks down faster than peat, does that mean it's better for a ROLS system? or worse? or it doesn't mean much as long as you keep adding to balance as you see fit?
Patt, what are your thoughts on using the fresh stems and leaves from the plants themselves as mulch/topdress, BlueJay got me thinking there's no need to let the stuff decompose anywhere else when your mix is that live on something like the 12th round/cycle.
Since coco breaks down faster than peat, does that mean it's better for a ROLS system? or worse? or it doesn't mean much as long as you keep adding to balance as you see fit?
Patt, what are your thoughts on using the fresh stems and leaves from the plants themselves as mulch/topdress, BlueJay got me thinking there's no need to let the stuff decompose anywhere else when your mix is that live on something like the 12th round/cycle.
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
I'm making 8cf+ of soil on Tuesday. No better time to do some side by sides. I will mix the peat and coir separate.
Tote one= 2cf peat, 1.5cf my EWC, 1.5cf rice hulls.
Tote two= 2cf coir, 1.5cf my EWC, 1.5cf rice hulls.
I will add the same amendments to each bin, with the exception of liming agents. I would typically add a couple cups oyster shell flour, and 1 cup dolomite lime to the peat. P, any input here on either the liming agents, or the brand of peat to use (I typically use Premier)? To the coco coir I will add a couple cups of gypsum. DT, DP, any input on the coco tip?
I will have 6 clones ready from the same mother. 2 will go in the straight coir mix, 2 will go in the straight peat mix, and 2 will go in to a 50/50 mix.
Any input from anyone before I throw this together on Tuesday is welcome. Maybe I'll start a new thread in this section on it....
Pattahabi
Well-Known Member
This is above my paygrade. With that said, I'd be watching the balance of my amendments a little closer with the low cec of coir and the ability of the pH to climb with liming agents. The gypsum with coir makes perfect sense. If it were me (even if I did use lime) I would not on coir, or in very small amounts. Oyster shell, gypsum and rock dust. Obv K is a base cation. With the added K from the peat I'll be interested if you have Ca/Mg deficiencies? I tried a few rounds of super soil with heavy coco, and I always had problems. This was long before I knew much about cec though. I use premier peat. Like $12 at home depot. Far superior to pro-mix imo. Then you can add scoria, lava rock, rice hulls, etc for your aeration.
One other thing to maybe think about if you were using coco and perlite. Coco has a pretty low cec, and if I am not mistaken, perlite has no cec.
Can't wait to see how this turns out Stow! I don't think I have ever seen a coco/peat side by side in a living organic soil.
Here's a Super Lemon Haze bud from back in my super soil days:
Ok, now I really need to get packing!!! lol.
P-
hyroot
Well-Known Member
rev does reuse soil. Sub dumps his soil in his veggie garden. Starts with a new mix every time . The problems you had with coco may have been due to not rinsing coco enough to rid of salts. Coconuts collect salts from ocean air / water.. I've been doing 50/50 coco soil when I make a new mix. No perlite or what ever is left in recycled soil. I haven't had any issues at all. I spent hours rinsing coco. Made sure the run off was completely clear. If the run off is reddish brown then it has not rinsed or flushed enough.
RedCarpetMatches
Well-Known Member
Coir does seem to break down after a couple runs. So I'm guessing it has a higher CEC over time (composted) and loses it's sponge like texture? It basically becomes a wanna be peat. More of a short time fix if ya ask me.
I was wondering how ya'll test your soil?
I was wondering how ya'll test your soil?
greenghost420
Well-Known Member
you eat it n see how salty it is or isnt. go from there...
test for ph or npk or?
test for ph or npk or?
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RedCarpetMatches
Well-Known Member
^^^nute user^^^
Shoo shoo gnat
Shoo shoo gnat
hyroot
Well-Known Member
I make a new mix every 2 years and include broken down old soil in the new mix. Or if I change pot size I make a new mix. I have a bunch of 7 gals chillin with 2 1/2 year old soil. Not in use. I plan on breaking it down and starting over. I'm over using fabric pots in flower. The outer edges dry too fast. My current batch is 5 gal. My next batch will be 7 and 10 gal plastic pots..
DonTesla
Well-Known Member
/
what brand of COIR were u thinking of using, brada mon?? we use a well rinsed coir with really low salts so we don't even have to rinse
DonTesla
Well-Known Member
There are labs in various cities for various tests, not too many in Canada tho, and the one in Alberta sends to the States, so The Dons test their soil by putting a plant in it. then we watch very closely. we want to see vibrant green growth, eleven finger leaves asap, tight stacked nodal growth, firm slightly praying leaves, firm green stems, no purple striping, no leaf curling, no clawing, no hermies of course, no early yellowing, no burning tips, no bleaching, no upper limpness,constant even growth, no bugs, webs, etc. if you use a coir mix, you need way less liming agents, and pH testing is needless. especially if u add only RO water. if you use a really good ROLS or soil mix well suited to ur strain and length of grow (and pot size) with slow release organic compounds, then the test is half passed...to enjoy really clean medicinal, coated in ur preference of types of crystals, while being a good yield for ur light and veg time, thats the true pass. basically the plant tells you everything. some strains will be more telling. you can use your sensitive strains to help you co-pilot your way to the cleanest runway ever..if you see issues, jus look em up, mon, you can always make the right adjustment.
DonTesla
Well-Known Member
So how long would you say they were lasting in between waterings, bro? once i set this air-cooled light up less air will suck thru the room, they should transpire less.. anyway, so you will use a smart pot (or 2) for Veg still, Hyroot? DP growing herbs in them, he is noticing dry spots in the 3 Gallons too. I still think they hold a TONNE of water compared to the 1 gallons tho, I'm happy to be done with the 1 gallons..for now
