Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread

[elkamino]

Wow

Where did you get this?

The interwebs!

Man I have nothing do to with that video, all props to those who do. I was just searching time-lapse grow vids on youtube and came across that one... and knew folks like yourself might just get off on it too!

 

[GreenSanta]

The interwebs!

Man I have nothing do to with that video, all props to those who do. I was just searching time-lapse grow vids on youtube and came across that one... and knew folks like yourself might just get off on it too!

What I like most in this vid is seeing how worms can actually break down wood very quickly when in the sawdust form. One year I thought using woodchips in my worm farm was one of the reason why the worms were not happy, now I find worms in woodchips piles and now I see this ... hmmm

 

[GreenSanta]

this thread is dead! do we know everything already, no one has anything new to share? Jeff Lowenfels has a new book coming out, teaming with fungi. I dont think it will apply much to cannabis besides the mycorizae, but hey I just learned the guy is a stoner while listening to the adam dunn show, AWESOME. lol

 

[calliandra]

this thread is dead! do we know everything already, no one has anything new to share? Jeff Lowenfels has a new book coming out, teaming with fungi. I dont think it will apply much to cannabis besides the mycorizae, but hey I just learned the guy is a stoner while listening to the adam dunn show, AWESOME. lol

Ah that's cool! Why should it not apply to cannabis?
Really curious what he has to say about them, they're the hardest to get established well...!
edit: Oh! seems it's going to be only about mycos, not the saprophytes at all...

 

[Aruanda]

Ah that's cool! Why should it not apply to cannabis?
Really curious what he has to say about them, they're the hardest to get established well...!
edit: Oh! seems it's going to be only about mycos, not the saprophytes at all...

I think the general consensus is that the Cannabis plant prefers principally a bacterial dominated soil. I'm sure the fungus does convey some benefit in probably some round about way to this annual plant. From what I also understand is that there is just one set of endomycorrhizal fungi that associate with the Cannabis plant (Glomus intraradices a.k.a. Rhizophagus irregularis). There is a good thread about it on RIU: The Great Mycorrhizae Myth

this thread is dead! do we know everything already, no one has anything new to share? Jeff Lowenfels has a new book coming out, teaming with fungi. I dont think it will apply much to cannabis besides the mycorizae, but hey I just learned the guy is a stoner while listening to the adam dunn show, AWESOME. lol

I listened to that podcast just the other week. Was interesting, and you're right, it was cool to find out he partakes in the sacred herb too! I've been reading through this thread now for a few weeks, at around pg. 200, lol. Will contribute some things when I work my way through the rest I think...

 

[calliandra]

I think the general consensus is that the Cannabis plant prefers principally a bacterial dominated soil. I'm sure the fungus does convey some benefit in probably some round about way to this annual plant. From what I also understand is that there is just one set of endomycorrhizal fungi that associate with the Cannabis plant (Glomus intraradices a.k.a. Rhizophagus irregularis). There is a good thread about it on RIU: The Great Mycorrhizae Myth

Yes, but in my understanding, "bacterial-dominant" doesn't mean "no fungi". In fact the bacterial:fungal should be just about 1:1 at the successional stage the more complex annuals grow at to be able to fully provide for them. So while we don't have to totally stress out about it, we should have beneficial fungi in our soils. And since I know that my fungal population is not well-rounded yet, so I'm always on the lookout for that aha moment that will help me resolve that

And thanks! will definitely check out that thread too, I didn't know we already have such specifics for the mycorrhizal preferences of cannabis

 

[Aruanda]

Yes, but in my understanding, "bacterial-dominant" doesn't mean "no fungi". In fact the bacterial:fungal should be just about 1:1 at the successional stage the more complex annuals grow at to be able to fully provide for them. So while we don't have to totally stress out about it, we should have beneficial fungi in our soils. And since I know that my fungal population is not well-rounded yet, so I'm always on the lookout for that aha moment that will help me resolve that

And thanks! will definitely check out that thread too, I didn't know we already have such specifics for the mycorrhizal preferences of cannabis

Yeah, it's a given. Bacteria dominant soil doesn't exclude the fact that there are still fungus present in the soil. My understanding would tend to agree also that Cannabis may prefer a equal ratio (1:1) bacteria to fungus.

 

[calliandra]

Yeah, it's a given. Bacteria dominant soil doesn't exclude the fact that there are still fungus present in the soil. My understanding would tend to agree also that Cannabis may prefer a equal ratio (1:1) bacteria to fungus.

Scanned this from "10 Steps to Gardening with Nature", by Carol Ann Rollins and Elaine Ingham. The book's not a recommend, a weird little thing that is. But it was worth getting for this, rather infantile, but clear, representation of soil populations in the different successional stages:

I put cannabis a bit to the right of the mid-successional group. If that is correct, we need fungi in our soils.

Oh and IMHO, that thread is highly hypothetical, since the OP is actually just interpreting non-pertinent research.
I read that whole heavy metals study a while back trying to do the same for some other question lol
And using the Eucalyptus study to prove ectos in our myco mix will harm endo colonization? Ectos don't colonize on cannabis, so they don't even have the conditions to sprout and then do that invagination thing, the cunts lol
So the whole argument is moot
No matter, Loewenfels to the rescue haha

But how did you come to the conclusion that Glomus intraradices is the ony endo that will colonize cannabis? Again, using non-pertinent research to make a point haha, but they used Glomus mossae in the heavymetals study So I'm intrigued!

 

[GreenSanta]

Yeah, it's a given. Bacteria dominant soil doesn't exclude the fact that there are still fungus present in the soil. My understanding would tend to agree also that Cannabis may prefer a equal ratio (1:1) bacteria to fungus.

For now I am going to go with Jeff Lowensfel ... cannabis needs a bacterial dominant soil, not 1:1. BUT, it won't stop me from experimenting with various fungal mulch like ramial wood chips. I am already seeing good results. Takes me back to a thread I started a while back about what I called poly mulch where one would have different quadrants of mulch around the plant, some fungal dominant and some bacterial dominant. An abundance of worms would ensure the medium underneath stays bacterial dominant.. Anyway, it's not because the mulch is fungal dominant that the soil underneath will be. The fungal duff might create new opportunities.

 

[sgarcata]

Hi all... I'm trying to transition from "organic" to ROLS. I have pond lined beds with clay rocks under the soil (separated by landscape cloth) and ready to start my 3rd run. I'm reading through these posts newest first. Sorry, but can someone please tell me what SIP stands for?
Thank you.

 

[sgarcata]

Yes you can...but if you are using quality earthworm castings, you'll eventually end up with them anyways. They will help with nutrient availability, I don't know why you'd try to avoid them.

Is that regular earth worms or red wigglers?

 

[calliandra]

Hi all... I'm trying to transition from "organic" to ROLS. I have pond lined beds with clay rocks under the soil (separated by landscape cloth) and ready to start my 3rd run. I'm reading through these posts newest first. Sorry, but can someone please tell me what SIP stands for?
Thank you.

SIP= Sub-Irrigated Planter

Is that regular earth worms or red wigglers?

I have both. The wigglers are from my wormbin, the regulars I imported from the garden on purpose.

 

[Aruanda]

Sorry @calliandra , I meant the family Glomus, not sure which specific species only work with cannabis. I heard from another group that only 2 species from the family Glomus are symbiotic with cannabis.

Yes for me that thread shows that hemp grown with mycorrhizae could be beneficial in a remediation of heavy metal contamination in soils. I think further studies need to be conducted with cannabis specifically. It would be interesting to know more about the relationship dynamic of cannabis roots and mycorrhizae in a soil mix with higher P levels (higher than 30ppm which would probably be so in the types of soil mixes people are using). I thought the same thing about ecto, would it even interfere with endo-mycorrhizae inoculating the roots of cannabis since the ecto wouldn't naturally inoculate the roots? Is it a waste of money to buy a broad spectrum myco mix to use with cannabis if only the endo species will inoculate? Would you want some diversity if you were also planting cover crops so they too benefit from the myco? Etc.

 

[sgarcata]

SIP= Sub-Irrigated Planter


I have both. The wigglers are from my wormbin, the regulars I imported from the garden on purpose.

Thanks for getting back so quickly, calliandra. I have kept red wigglers for 6 years or so... I had great ambitions for their production, but I still haven't been able to separate them from their bedding/castings very productively so they are mainly "pets" now. I'm just now discovering the idea of letting them live out their years eating, pooping and loving in my indoor beds. Now I'm wondering what the heck do they eat until the ROLS system gets into gear and they have some rotting mj leaves to munch on? They're used to fruit and veggies from the inside kitchen. I thought of blending in up and pouring the smoothie over the soil in between the plants, but that seem pretty wild so I want to hear from others first.

Also quite a colony of soil gnats has built up over the years in the bin. There aren't many now due to the near frost temps at night now, but I'm sure there are eggs galore in the worm bin "soil".

I control the gnats in my indoor beds now by letting the top of the soil dry out and keeping my air tubes covered with nylons. Seems like I won't be able to do the former with this new approach so the "living" part of ROLS happens. From what little I know about earthworms feeding isn't a problem, but I don't really want worms of any type crawling all over my rooms searching for a viable environment as a friend reported to me he did. I'm sure there is a link somewhere, but I haven't come across it yet.

 

[DonTesla]

Thanks for getting back so quickly, calliandra. I have kept red wigglers for 6 years or so... I had great ambitions for their production, but I still haven't been able to separate them from their bedding/castings very productively so they are mainly "pets" now. I'm just now discovering the idea of letting them live out their years eating, pooping and loving in my indoor beds. Now I'm wondering what the heck do they eat until the ROLS system gets into gear and they have some rotting mj leaves to munch on? They're used to fruit and veggies from the inside kitchen. I thought of blending in up and pouring the smoothie over the soil in between the plants, but that seem pretty wild so I want to hear from others first.

Also quite a colony of soil gnats has built up over the years in the bin. There aren't many now due to the near frost temps at night now, but I'm sure there are eggs galore in the worm bin "soil".

I control the gnats in my indoor beds now by letting the top of the soil dry out and keeping my air tubes covered with nylons. Seems like I won't be able to do the former with this new approach so the "living" part of ROLS happens. From what little I know about earthworms feeding isn't a problem, but I don't really want worms of any type crawling all over my rooms searching for a viable environment as a friend reported to me he did. I'm sure there is a link somewhere, but I haven't come across it yet.

Can Try feeding them hay or letting them refine their own castings

For leaves I dry them then crumble them if bunny doesn't get them first, lol

As for separating, the best thing that worked for me was the wood bins and having a layer with hardware mesh on it. All the casting jus fell thru.

Now when I harvest I just put worms and castings together, since the worms just keep multiplying

 

[calliandra]

Sorry @calliandra , I meant the family Glomus, not sure which specific species only work with cannabis. I heard from another group that only 2 species from the family Glomus are symbiotic with cannabis.

Ah ok, thanks for clarifying!

thought the same thing about ecto, would it even interfere with endo-mycorrhizae inoculating the roots of cannabis since the ecto wouldn't naturally inoculate the roots? Is it a waste of money to buy a broad spectrum myco mix to use with cannabis if only the endo species will inoculate? Would you want some diversity if you were also planting cover crops so they too benefit from the myco? Etc.

Lots of interesting questions!

The way I understand the soil food web at the moment, is that from a maximum diversity of microbes, it will always be different species that are active, depending on environmental factors - aeration, humidity, temperatures, soil composition, the exudates being put out by the plant, pH being influenced by the activity of other microbes.....
And even the harmful microbes are in there, along with the beneficial ones, but will not gain ground as long as conditions allow the aerobes to remain dominant in sheer numbers.
Out in nature, no one is sorting microbes with a nano-pince, like "oh look! here's an ectomycorrhizal spore, we don't need it here, so lets take it out and put it over with the conifers" haha - Instead, everything is in the soil, potentially, and ready to jump in whenever they get the chance to thrive.

So extrapolating from that, yeah on the one hand it shouldn't be a problem to have all sorts of mycorrhizal spores in the soil, since only those will thrive for whom the conditions are favorable.
On the other, having ectos in a myco mix for cannabis IS useless, also to any cover crops that may want to grow with it. But I'd still go for a mix that has a variety of endo's, just on the basis of following the principle of maximum diversity.

Sounds really sensible to me, but I may be missing something

 

[calliandra]

Speaking of mushrooms, has anyone had these sprout - and were you able to identify them? (I haven't been :/ )

seems they're sprouting separately (as opposed to branching out from each other), even though in clusters

and the underside of their caps

 

[DonBrennon]

Speaking of mushrooms, has anyone had these sprout - and were you able to identify them? (I haven't been :/ )
View attachment 3845308
seems they're sprouting separately (as opposed to branching out from each other), even though in clusters
View attachment 3845309
and the underside of their caps
View attachment 3845310

.............and you was telling us that your soil was devoid of fungi.............LOL

 

[calliandra]

.............and you was telling us that your soil was devoid of fungi.............LOL

haha and it IS
These are in a chili pot, which was sat outdoors in a garden bed all summer.
And what I forgot to say: they smell delicious! Would be great if they were edible

But you got me onto something there!
When that chili is done living, I can innoculate my no-tills with its soil to get more of the shroomy environment in, nevermind if that particular one is edible or not
Cheers!

 

[DesertGrow89]

Hi all... I'm trying to transition from "organic" to ROLS. I have pond lined beds with clay rocks under the soil (separated by landscape cloth) and ready to start my 3rd run. I'm reading through these posts newest first. Sorry, but can someone please tell me what SIP stands for?
Thank you.

Why do you have rocks under the soil?