Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
There's some leaf mold in this mix that came from a pile in my backyard. I figured that's where it came from, just wasn't sure what type it was.

And no Darth, I'm not going to eat it. lol
yeah, when it doubt... throw it out!! speaking of the leaf mold though.... do you just pile up the leaves and let them compost on their own for a year or so??? sunny location or shaded location for the pile?? anything you like to add to it? i have a couple big maple trees in the back yard and they're not going to the curb this year lol. my gf is like, seriously you're keeping all the leaves???

Edit: Oh i misspoke, it looks like a Fairy Ring mushroom. google the image. pretty cool.
 
Last edited:

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
yeah, when it doubt... throw it out!! speaking of the leaf mold though.... do you just pile up the leaves and let them compost on their own for a year or so??? sunny location or shaded location for the pile?? anything you like to add to it? i have a couple big maple trees in the back yard and they're not going to the curb this year lol. my gf is like, seriously you're keeping all the leaves???
Yep, just piled in the yard. I bought some chicken wire and enclosed the pile so that I didn't have leaves blowing all over. I mulched them with my lawn mower to break them down a bit and create more surface area. They are almost all carbon by the time they fall off the tree, so adding a source of N (I used alfalfa pellets from a feed store) will help speed up the decomposition. Then just wet it down and forget about it. The pile will heat up substantially, and will reduce big time. 12 months seems to be the minimum when adding a source of N. If you just pile them up and leave them it can take upwards of 3 years.
 

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
yeah, when it doubt... throw it out!! speaking of the leaf mold though.... do you just pile up the leaves and let them compost on their own for a year or so??? sunny location or shaded location for the pile?? anything you like to add to it? i have a couple big maple trees in the back yard and they're not going to the curb this year lol. my gf is like, seriously you're keeping all the leaves???

Edit: Oh i misspoke, it looks like a Fairy Ring mushroom. google the image. pretty cool.
I'd go with a shady spot, think of it like a replicated moist forest to break it down faster.
And i'd add kelp meal to the pile at a minimum, and if you are like most organic farmers you may have leftover guanos or fish meal or whatever, THOSE are awesome to use as a nitrogen input tp your pile, and will accelerate the thermophilic process of the compost.
grass clippings work well for that too.
Yep, just piled in the yard. I bought some chicken wire and enclosed the pile so that I didn't have leaves blowing all over. I mulched them with my lawn mower to break them down a bit and create more surface area. They are almost all carbon by the time they fall off the tree, so adding a source of N (I used alfalfa pellets from a feed store) will help speed up the decomposition. Then just wet it down and forget about it. The pile will heat up substantially, and will reduce big time. 12 months seems to be the minimum when adding a source of N. If you just pile them up and leave them it can take upwards of 3 years.
As usual good advice man.
If you have layered alfalfa in there it'll break down faster than 12 months. At least it did for me, i had pure black crumbly humus in like 6 months. BUT i amended the bejesus out of it, and turned it a lot too.
Pure leafmold can take three yrs, but that's with nothing added.
If you like those pellets maybe see how much a bale of alfalfa is, sometimes they break it up or sell it for hamsters or whatever, but that stuff fresh can boost the temps fast, and that'll break it down faster.
I can't remember the advantage of having a PURE leafmold as opposed to a mixed amended one, or if there is. I seem to remember somebody saying it was better for some reason.. Maybe on grasscity or something.
Anyways, i use the fresh alfalfa, kelp meal, fishbonemeal, etc, etc, etc.
If you wanted to keep it a strict plant based compost i would add kelp meal to it.
Layer it, and break it down, and absolutely run it through a leaf mulcher or a lawnmower, that speeds it up bigtime.
 

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
lawnmower.... brilliant!!! yeah i will do kelp meal, alfalfa meal, grass clippings, gypsum; oyster mushroom growers use this in the wheat straw they inoculate so i'm thinking it may have some benefits in speeding it up? just my hypothesis. i just need this stuff to be ready because i'm moving late summer next year. so i'm going to get it going when the leaves fall and hope it will be ready early summer. we have cold snowy winters so i'm thinking the spring i will keep it well turned, and the freeze thaw cycles will break it down even faster? another hypothesis.
 

Darth Vapour

Well-Known Member
i always wondered why have a cover crop in no till gardening when you are actually growing the product ..
I mean no till a person should have mulches, composts twigs and brush i guess this helps in keeping soil moist / warm there fore cover crops are buried under the theory of leaching nutrients into the soil from layered compost and such on top of soil ??? now i can see possible cover crop like clovers and such after a harvest and in fall for its short life to prevent possible weed growth but wouldn't a person be really placing compost and mulches on top rather then cover allowing the soil to replenish it self ??? least that is what i would do da hell with cover crops its consistent adding of grass clippings or potato peels twigs etc as per plants needs ,, as well as in fall when preparing soil for next season
 

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
same concept as mulching when mowing the lawn. leave the clippings to replenish the soil. the crops probably provide habitat and more stuff for microbes. I may do this for one of my challenges in the no till pots i'm about to put together. I think i'm going to do one without biochar, others with bio char, one i will give just water, other i will give teas. maybe one with a living mulch and one with deadfall mulch. experimenting is the only way to the answers right?
 

Darth Vapour

Well-Known Member
well one would also think if your trying to be in set with mother nature then i would stay away from making teas and pouring it to leaving it to rain fall and natural occurring i guess teas if that is the case
But back to cover crop this is where i think not till is jumping all over the place or people are trying to do this when in fact cover crop was meant for use lets say farm land acres of land or big area
i mean lets say i have a 5 x 5 box i plan to no till first year of course you add dirt and of course amendments with that comes top layering of composts where it covers all 25 Sq feet of it there fore i have no need for a cover crop or it would be buried there and die from no sunlight as well as rot from the heat and moisture . of compost i think there is allot of confusion . when it comes to no till and also appears everyone throws there ideas and say this is no till etc
i would really like to here from no till growers that grow in pots 20 - 30 gallon and is it working i mean i grow in 34 gallon totes and by the time i am done one grow start to finish there is litterally no soil left but all roots so if i see this ???how can a person chop plant and make a hole next to it and have it grow with more precentage of roots to soil mass with that said one would think it would become higher acidic which would lead to less organic decomposition and overall health of a plant
 

iHearAll

Well-Known Member
Ha the only "no till" that wouldake sense for containers is aquaponics. But also, of you have a container with only roots and sands then plant a legume in it. Never done that but if your soils spent you gotta make soil with nitrogen first. Same as the tilling gardeners.
 

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
well one would also think if your trying to be in set with mother nature then i would stay away from making teas and pouring it to leaving it to rain fall and natural occurring i guess teas if that is the case
But back to cover crop this is where i think not till is jumping all over the place or people are trying to do this when in fact cover crop was meant for use lets say farm land acres of land or big area
i mean lets say i have a 5 x 5 box i plan to no till first year of course you add dirt and of course amendments with that comes top layering of composts where it covers all 25 Sq feet of it there fore i have no need for a cover crop or it would be buried there and die from no sunlight as well as rot from the heat and moisture . of compost i think there is allot of confusion . when it comes to no till and also appears everyone throws there ideas and say this is no till etc
i would really like to here from no till growers that grow in pots 20 - 30 gallon and is it working i mean i grow in 34 gallon totes and by the time i am done one grow start to finish there is litterally no soil left but all roots so if i see this ???how can a person chop plant and make a hole next to it and have it grow with more precentage of roots to soil mass with that said one would think it would become higher acidic which would lead to less organic decomposition and overall health of a plant
ok for your 5x5 bed. i mean there was literally no space left in my 3x8 beds. every tall plant had an edible cover crop below it. below my tomatoes i grew carrots, lettuce, green onions, peppers, basil. I vined all my curcubits on verticle trellis and grew green beans, and radishes below and all around them. i mean literally, there was not an empty space in those garden beds. covercrops shaded the roots and soil below, and kept the soil where i wanted it.

ok well another point for having cover crop is erosion. cover crops keep soil in place. the roots would also probably aerate the soil up top. also, plant roots emit hormones that are detected by chemical sensors in the roots of other plants which tell each other to grow in a different direction (analogous to repelling charges). that being said, cover crop roots would deter cannabis roots from growing up into the top 1" (or deeper) of the soil medium, deterring them from being exposed to lights and forming a cork (bark layer) on the outside; usually this is where the soil drys out the fastest so the roots of cannabis would be deeper down where more moisture is available.

i'm not advocating one way or the other, i'm just saying. to each his own. people have all kinds of different methods for achieving the same results as others. our brains all work differently, and will find understanding in things that others don't.

as for the teas, lots of the no tillers dont bother with anything but compost tea to repopulate microbes.
 

Darth Vapour

Well-Known Member
but why would you have to worry about errosion when the soil is no disturbed to begin with ???? to my understanding cover crops are to be the natural weed killers no different then in organic til growing
 

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
but why would you have to worry about errosion when the soil is no disturbed to begin with ???? to my understanding cover crops are to be the natural weed killers no different then in organic til growing
the force of water can wash away top soil. im surprised this isn't obvious to you. I don't get what you're trying to prove against no till? do we need to just say your method is best? I'm not trying to discourage questions, just seems like you have this bias opinion. I'll be posting my result with 15 and 20 gal containers so you can see for yourself. i'll be seeing for myself as well since i've never known anyone that employs these methods to cannabis. I'm sure these containers are going to be no till for a certain amount of time before, like gmm said, they compact too much. i'll be adding worms to my no till bed to help with the aeration. maybe they will make it a year before needing to be broken up and remixed. I don't really know.

i would bet a majority of the people in this section aren't no tillers. they are recycling soil and reammending it the same fashion that is "tilling" really.
 

AllDayToker

Well-Known Member
My plants always seem happy after a good vermicompost/compost/worm casting tea. I use the same amount of each, I just switch it up. They are all pretty similar in use, just building up my microbes.

If they plant reacts well right after, I think it's a good thing to add. The more comfortable and happy a plant is, the better the end product.
 

Pattahabi

Well-Known Member
Very healthy!!! :clap:
Thanks ADT! I was a little concerned because I didn't tend to the beds as diligently inbetween rounds. A couple act's, some kelp they don't seem to mind thus far. ;)

Shiny and I like the nine fingered leaves!
Thanks man! I give the credit to aloe and water foliars! :)

This is a Pura Vida from Bodhi.

bodhi.jpg

Peace!

P-
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
but why would you have to worry about errosion when the soil is no disturbed to begin with ???? to my understanding cover crops are to be the natural weed killers no different then in organic til growing

Watering causes erosion and soil to compact. Cover crops help prevent that.

Even though the soil beneath the surface isn't disturbed. The flow of water causes erosion..

Outside its not just wind but rain too.
 

Pattahabi

Well-Known Member
have you been reammending the soil or just busting up and remixing? they look so happy and beautiful
Thanks ShLUby! There has been no amending and very little top dressing for the the last four rounds. I think I topdressed 1/4c kelp and 1/4c neem per 100 gallon bed after the last round. Then a good layer of EWC, new mulch, cover crop, called it a day! To help with transplant shock, they were given a couple of aloe/silica foliars. I smoke my share of weed. I have to keep the regimine simple lol!

bongsmilie

Peace!

P-
 

4ftRoots

Well-Known Member
Thanks ShLUby! There has been no amending and very little top dressing for the the last four rounds. I think I topdressed 1/4c kelp and 1/4c neem per 100 gallon bed after the last round. Then a good layer of EWC, new mulch, cover crop, called it a day! To help with transplant shock, they were given a couple of aloe/silica foliars. I smoke my share of weed. I have to keep the regimine simple lol!

bongsmilie

Peace!

P-
It must be me and my smaller 35 gal pots but I always have to add more calcium. Kelp just doesn't always cut it for me.
 
Top