Removing fan leaves during flowering

chuck estevez said:

yo, NEO, did you see this???

• I personally don't strip them down just before going into flower. The stripping of these girls in veg DOES slow them down in veg,​
  
  
  
  

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Let me put the whole paragraph there so we can all get some context instead of just picking the one sentence that halfway supports your point...

I personally don't strip them down just before going into flower. The stripping of these girls in veg DOES slow them down in veg, but in the end, it's only a week or two, and if you're cycling your plants, after the first extended veg, it's all moot. You plant accordingly. Also sending stripped girls into 12/12 slows the stretch. With defoliation we both love and hate stretch. We like the stretch because we can make them fatter with bending. We hate upwards stretch however. The plan is to get a nice even canopy that is fat and wide that allows really good light from top to bottom! Yes, we want to see all that crap popcorn we used to have become awesome bud. But even better, as we bend, the off shoots start to climb up and they hit the top of the canopy and become big fat budding flowers too!.

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So these guys are purposefully increasing their veg time to create healthier, bushier plants that they can send into flower.

And BTW, the OP of that thread states specifically that defoliating immediately prior to switching into 12/12 will slow down the stretch phase of flowering. This is purposeful.

And they aren't just pulling all the leaves, only certain ones.

I almost feel like you guys could give a shit less about defoliating and are just personally attacking Neo? Naw that wouldn't make any sense, we're all here to grow and united by common cause! Why would you attack Neo for having different viewpoints/idea/opinions?

My butthole is different than yours, will I be on the receiving end of your attacks as well?

I'm trying to promote discussion on the topic at hand, which is defoliation. Not Neo's or my buttholes...

I left this site in 2010, I might be looking for another soon if proper discussion can't be had here

the church man said:

Let me put the whole paragraph there so we can all get some context instead of just picking the one sentence that halfway supports your point...



So these guys are purposefully increasing their veg time to create healthier, bushier plants that they can send into flower.

And BTW, the OP of that thread states specifically that defoliating immediately prior to switching into 12/12 will slow down the stretch phase of flowering. This is purposeful.

And they aren't just pulling all the leaves, only certain ones.

I almost feel like you guys could give a shit less about defoliating and are just personally attacking Neo? Naw that wouldn't make any sense, we're all here to grow and united by common cause! Why would you attack Neo for having different viewpoints/idea/opinions?

My butthole is different than yours, will I be on the receiving end of your attacks as well?

I'm trying to promote discussion on the topic at hand, which is defoliation. Not Neo's or my buttholes...

I left this site in 2010, I might be looking for another soon if proper discussion can't be had here

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I am showing him that his statement that defoliating turbo charges a plant and doesn't add to veg times is B>S, just like most of the stuff NEo has posted. This isn't the only thread that he has been, as you say "attacked" But thanks for popping in on page 15 to add to this discussion.

the church man said:

Let me put the whole paragraph there so we can all get some context instead of just picking the one sentence that halfway supports your point...



So these guys are purposefully increasing their veg time to create healthier, bushier plants that they can send into flower.

And BTW, the OP of that thread states specifically that defoliating immediately prior to switching into 12/12 will slow down the stretch phase of flowering. This is purposeful.

And they aren't just pulling all the leaves, only certain ones.

I almost feel like you guys could give a shit less about defoliating and are just personally attacking Neo? Naw that wouldn't make any sense, we're all here to grow and united by common cause! Why would you attack Neo for having different viewpoints/idea/opinions?

My butthole is different than yours, will I be on the receiving end of your attacks as well?

I'm trying to promote discussion on the topic at hand, which is defoliation. Not Neo's or my buttholes...

I left this site in 2010, I might be looking for another soon if proper discussion can't be had here

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Please don't threaten us with a good time!!

Defoliating would obviously add to veg time as the plant has to reproduce all that vegetative material.

That is obvious to me.

And I'm not going anywhere, if anything I'll go back to lurking.

It's just BS that most of what I read is the same people causing drama. Get over yourselves

chuck estevez said:

Yeah, he says it repairs itself in a week, then goes to say it took 10-12 days, But after the 2ncd strip, It magically regrew all those leaves in 4 days. then he wrote this, ( YOU PAYING ATTENTION NEO????)



I personally don't strip them down just before going into flower. The stripping of these girls in veg DOES slow them down in veg,

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What he actually said was:

"I personally don't strip them down just before going into flower. The stripping of these girls in veg DOES slow them down in veg, but in the end, it's only a week or two, and if you're cycling your plants, after the first extended veg, it's all moot. You plant accordingly."

I wish Chuck had a mute button!!!

Why are you misquoting him to make yourself sound correct?

This brings your argument back full circle to the 'it does work, but it may extend veg time' routine. You really need to make up your minds as yesterday you were saying it didn't work.

This brings back the question that if it does work then why won't you and the other defolihaters let us talk about it??????

"We shall defend our right to speak about defoliation, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the forums, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender."
Winston Churchill

neo12345 said:

What he actually said was:

"I personally don't strip them down just before going into flower. The stripping of these girls in veg DOES slow them down in veg, but in the end, it's only a week or two, and if you're cycling your plants, after the first extended veg, it's all moot. You plant accordingly."

I wish Chuck had a mute button!!!

Why are you misquoting him to make yourself sound correct?

This brings your argument back full circle to the 'it does work, but it may extend veg time' routine. You really need to make up your minds as yesterday you were saying it didn't work.

This brings back the question that if it does work then why won't you and the other defolihaters let us talk about it??????

"We shall defend our right to speak about defoliation, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the forums, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender."
Winston Churchill

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It's a forum, You can talk ALL YOU WANT, And i have the right to debunk ALL your theories. Welcome to the free world. It is you that is wishy washy and changes every day.
You want to talk, or you want to fight, according to your quote above???

Ok, I can generaly agree that removing leaves should reduce amount of energy plant can gather and use for growth, BUT

I'm 20 days into flower, SCROG setup. Plant has four masive branches with huge fan leaves and some thinner side branches. Those younger branches were at places quite weak with pale leaves from growing in the shade. I tried to remove some of the large fan leaves and let the light penetrate to weaker branches. After a few days those started geting stronger and producing nice fat leaves themselves.

Now I am fully aware that the plant used some energy to produce that new growth, but I think that it caused the plant to redistribute the energy to those weaker branches that I'm going to need for buds. If I'm right, in this case I haven't lost much in terms of photosynthesis capacity (as there already was a layer of young leaves just beneath the bigger older ones), and have achieved a positive result in terms of geting more strong bud producing branches. Once buds start developing, I'll again consider prining some fan leaves so that leaves on the buds get as much light as possible.

So as I see it, there can be situations where some leaf prunning can be helpful.

the church man said:

Defoliating would obviously add to veg time as the plant has to reproduce all that vegetative material.

That is obvious to me.

And I'm not going anywhere, if anything I'll go back to lurking.

It's just BS that most of what I read is the same people causing drama. Get over yourselves

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I didn't realize having various opinions on a subject was causing drama. Quit being fuckin babies and whining about stuff. I'm not getting over myself, I LOVE ME.

neo12345 said:

What he actually said was:

"I personally don't strip them down just before going into flower. The stripping of these girls in veg DOES slow them down in veg, but in the end, it's only a week or two, and if you're cycling your plants, after the first extended veg, it's all moot. You plant accordingly."

I wish Chuck had a mute button!!!

Why are you misquoting him to make yourself sound correct?

This brings your argument back full circle to the 'it does work, but it may extend veg time' routine. You really need to make up your minds as yesterday you were saying it didn't work.

This brings back the question that if it does work then why won't you and the other defolihaters let us talk about it??????

"We shall defend our right to speak about defoliation, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the forums, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender."
Winston Churchill

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How is adding cost to the electric bill and time for veg Moot???

Absolutely. This all makes sense. This is what we want. To redistribute growth to where it is lacking if we feel it is necessary.

In order to do this we need to understand how the plant reacts to different stressors such as topping, super cropping, pruning, tying/LST etc

I mean seriously, look at the majority of the techniques I've names above. Most of them could be considered to be more "stressful" to a plant than defoliating, but they have been proven time and time again.





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chuck estevez said:

I didn't realize having various opinions on a subject was causing drama. Quit being fuckin babies and whining about stuff. I'm not getting over myself, I LOVE ME.

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You're opinions are welcome, the conflict that you cause with others is what I consider dramatic. But, I'll quit being a baby and whining about stuff, which is exactly what you do when you come into this thread. But I digress, we're supposed to be discussing defoliating.

chuck estevez said:

How is adding cost to the electric bill and time for veg Moot???

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Well the whole point was that the defoliating process had been using multiple times during the grow. The result is a shorter, bushier plant with much closer nodes. This obviously means more buds. The OP of the thread that I linked stated that he had seen/heard of yield increases of over 15%(I did the percentage in my head, might be off)... So I guess what I'm trying to say is that the increase in electric bill for a week or two would be justified by an increase of yield.

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And that OP said the point was moot because he defoliated all his plants and had a perpetual grow going. Once you account for all these things in regard to timing of veg and flowering, the point is indeed moot.

Defoliation is the dumbest approach to growing I've ever heard of, the guys tweeting "increased"yield by doing so would always have a larger yield had they not

the church man said:

You're opinions are welcome, the conflict that you cause with others is what I consider dramatic. But, I'll quit being a baby and whining about stuff, which is exactly what you do when you come into this thread. But I digress, we're supposed to be discussing defoliating.




Well the whole point was that the defoliating process had been using multiple times during the grow. The result is a shorter, bushier plant with much closer nodes. This obviously means more buds. The OP of the thread that I linked stated that he had seen/heard of yield increases of over 15%(I did the percentage in my head, might be off)... So I guess what I'm trying to say is that the increase in electric bill for a week or two would be justified by an increase of yield.

Sent from my EVO using Rollitup mobile app

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Right, and your op in the the other thread claimed it was ONLY an additional week, Then says it took 10-12 days, then another 16 after the second defol. Doing the math in my head, 15% just doesn't compute to the added cost and time. Plus, I really don't think it adds to yield, We have another thread where we were suppose to find out.

start reading and then you can catch up to the rest of us. https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journal-discussion/809749-defoliation-experiment-side-side-sister.html

Like I said, I've been inactive for a few years. Just started back again a week or so ago.

I've already started reading, and see that this other thread has some nice discussion going, and the same negativos that just say it won't work. I'm more interested in finding out exactly why it won't work.

And in regards to the timing mentioned above, you read the thread wrong. The guy is vegging for 4-6weeks then flowering. If he was vegging for a few weeks like I do then defoliating would most likely not be a good thing at all. I know I don't do it because I don't think that I would see any benefit. But that doesn't mean that I can see the potential benefits and discuss them with you people.

Either way, I'll go back to reading and reading...

should keep as many leaves as you can that fit in the space without shading each other
when plants grow vigorously they can be shaped to their environment with pruning so that only the healthiest growth remains
the space can still be filled but with a higher concentration of colas

some folk grow plants so small that removing anything perhaps is not a good idea

peace

chuck estevez said:

I am showing him that his statement that defoliating turbo charges a plant and doesn't add to veg times is B>S, just like most of the stuff NEo has posted. This isn't the only thread that he has been, as you say "attacked"

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The poster of that thread was not doing a side by side experiment Chuck and neither have you, yet I'm talking bs?

Here we have 2 plants both the same age, we'll call them Red and Blue.



Blue is clearly the bigger plant compared to Red, so I'll give the advantage to the defolihaters and pluck leaves from smaller Red. I like a challenge and don't mind starting out as the underdog.

I'll defoliate Red not once but twice in the space of 18 days, twice in that time the poor plant will be raped of the very thing which makes it grow! There is no way Red is going to be able to compete with Blue, right???



Hang on a minute, it appears that Red is now about 1" taller than Blue!! How is that even possible? You take the solar panels off twice and yet the plant has grown taller than the one you left them on!!

Maybe I have found a glitch in the Matrix Chuck? Maybe I am the one?

You choose the Blue plant, the story ends. You wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You choose the Red plant, you stay in wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.

chuck estevez said:

You want to talk, or you want to fight, according to your quote above???

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Haaaiiiiiiiiii

chuck estevez said:

It's a forum, You can talk ALL YOU WANT, And i have the right to debunk ALL your theories. Welcome to the free world.

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chuck estevez said:

How is adding cost to the electric bill and time for veg Moot???

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Extra hours of electricity used for 2 weeks vegging for 18 hours per day = 224 hours

Extra hours of electricity used for flowering an Autoflower for nine weeks at 18/6 instead of 12/12 = 378 hours

Autoflowers use more electricity so why is there a whole section devoted to Autoflowers, and why aren't you in there forcing your opinions on them and debunking their theories?

If you veg for 6 weeks and fit in 2 rounds of defoliation during that time, how does defoliation add any time? If you defoliate at weeks 2 and 4 you still get 2 clear weeks growing before the plants are flowered? Maybe I should book a maths course with the agriculture one?

well that's too bad you cannot see the relevance in such articles neo...but not surprising. YOu seemed to have missed every point so far.

but yes, you are correct. None of them are about defoliating cannibis per se. Most people with a reasonable understanding of botany can draw certain correlations from them though. It is exceedingly obvious this is not you. Just to clear the air here, I am not an expert on this. THere could be some grain of truth to these methods IDK for 100% certainty but I doubt it, & like I said, the last study seemed to have some data to back up your opinions...but you are too wrapped up in yourself to read even the abstracts..IMAGINE THAT! You would rather sit here and argue with a bunch of stoners than possibly expand your base of knowledge.

What a great self appointed champion of defoliation techniques. TOo lazy or dense to read studies done by people smarter than he.

yes....I'm certain you will go far in this world son.