RO and AN. Help

Thanks for the help. Appreciate it. I don't know shit man. I'm a noob which is why I joined. To learn from you guys. I'm just researching stuff and getting ready for my first grow. Advanced nutrients can go fuck themselves. Lyiars. I won't buy shit from them now. Everyone on this site told me the owners a pedophile and AN is overpriced bullshit. I was about to fall for the noob scandal til I joined this site. Now I think I'll go with GH or Canna. Depends on if I go soil less or dwc. Haven't made up my mind yet. Still got a lil time to research and learn before I buy. Been going hard for 2 months learning all i can. Thanks for your help

thenotsoesoteric said:

How are pot plants different from other plants? And how is a fertilizer good for tomatoes, squash, peas and etc... but not pot? And yes, all the cup winners say they use AN because An is paying them to use their products. Kind of like Shaq doing a Buick commercial but do you think he would drive a Buick if they weren't paying him to? Blow your money like you're a baller. But to think you're going to get better buds with a certain fertilizer is naive, countless threads here prove that.

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Pot plants, just like any other plants, have specific nutrient needs. A fertilizer developed for roses isn't going to be optimal for tomatoes, even though it will work. While I believe much of AN's popularity is based off of hype and marketing, they are one of the only, readily available for me ( meaning i can go down the street and buy it NOW), pot specific nutrients, that contain more micro and macro nutrient in their base formulas than most other nutrient lines. I think there was one other, I believe dyna-gro, that was close but missing some other very minor trace elements. I was very,very hesitant to try the AN line, but after a few weeks of research, between both me and my partner, i figured it was worth a shot on one cycle.. I had a long convo with my grow shop guy and he even said the whole AN line is mostly crap, he said AN's base A&B, and a bloom booster and possibly a flavor enhancer - both from a different company. I had previously been using GH 3 part with ok results, but it is a "general" fert and i was using bloom/flavor boosters anyway.

I don't believe any of the "countless proven" threads about nutes, after looking at literally hundreds over the last month I've only seen a handful that had controlled as many variables as possible and even then there were still variables ( mostly environmental) that could have contributed to the differences in growth/yield between nute line ups. The few i saw that actually look fairly well controlled and unbiased did show a slight, SLIGHT, advantage to the AN BASE lineup, I guess only trial and error will tell if it's worth the extra money to you. Honestly if I don't see a significant difference between AN and GH I'll go back, not worth 2-3x the cost if the results aren't there.

WeedFreak78 said:

Pot plants, just like any other plants, have specific nutrient needs. A fertilizer developed for roses isn't going to be optimal for tomatoes, even though it will work. While I believe much of AN's popularity is based off of hype and marketing, they are one of the only, readily available for me ( meaning i can go down the street and buy it NOW), pot specific nutrients, that contain more micro and macro nutrient in their base formulas than most other nutrient lines. I think there was one other, I believe dyna-gro, that was close but missing some other very minor trace elements. I was very,very hesitant to try the AN line, but after a few weeks of research, between both me and my partner, i figured it was worth a shot on one cycle.. I had a long convo with my grow shop guy and he even said the whole AN line is mostly crap, he said AN's base A&B, and a bloom booster and possibly a flavor enhancer - both from a different company. I had previously been using GH 3 part with ok results, but it is a "general" fert and i was using bloom/flavor boosters anyway.

I don't believe any of the "countless proven" threads about nutes, after looking at literally hundreds over the last month I've only seen a handful that had controlled as many variables as possible and even then there were still variables ( mostly environmental) that could have contributed to the differences in growth/yield between nute line ups. The few i saw that actually look fairly well controlled and unbiased did show a slight, SLIGHT, advantage to the AN BASE lineup, I guess only trial and error will tell if it's worth the extra money to you. Honestly if I don't see a significant difference between AN and GH I'll go back, not worth 2-3x the cost if the results aren't there.

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in reply to your first statement

plants all use the same nutrients, so if there are thousands of strains and each one has different nutrient PPM needs, not different nutrient needs. it is the GARDENER who needs to read his plant and respond accordingly with what the plant needs. Doesn't matter if it's miracle grow, advanced nutrients or dyna gro, if a plant needs N, it needs N. AN can't predict what EVERY strain needs.
THERE IS NO MAGIC BOTTLE OR MAGIC NUTE COMPANY. PERIOD. only great growers who understand Everything comes into play in your garden and nutes is just a small part of the equation.

chuck estevez said:

plants all use the same nutrients, so if there are thousands of strains and each one has different nutrient PPM needs, not different nutrient needs.

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Your right, i should have stated it better, same needs just different levels. Basically what i was saying is that certain nute lines are tailored more to the needs of a certain plant than others, even though they will work across a broad range of plants. A rose formula might have higher concentrations of say N, K, Chlorine, and iron and a marijuana formula may need to have higher concentrations of P, boron,magnesium ,calcium because each of those plants use those nutes in higher levels than the other.

chuck estevez said:

it is the GARDENER who needs to read his plant and respond accordingly with what the plant needs. Doesn't matter if it's miracle grow, advanced nutrients or dyna gro, if a plant needs N, it needs N. AN can't predict what EVERY strain needs.
THERE IS NO MAGIC BOTTLE OR MAGIC NUTE COMPANY. PERIOD. only great growers who understand Everything comes into play in your garden and nutes is just a small part of the equation.

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Again, your correct, but this goes back to my rose/marijuana example, where a plant specific nutrient is going to get you closer to "optimal" and require less "reading" of the plants. Strain specifics might cause slight issues withing a plant specific nute line, but nothing like issues with using plant specific nutes and the non specified plant. If we didn't need different formulas for different plants there wouldn't be orchid, african violet, rose, tomato, etc. specific nutes, unless you believe that is also just marketing hype..

WeedFreak78 said:

Your right, i should have stated it better, same needs just different levels. Basically what i was saying is that certain nute lines are tailored more to the needs of a certain plant than others, even though they will work across a broad range of plants. A rose formula might have higher concentrations of say N, K, Chlorine, and iron and a marijuana formula may need to have higher concentrations of P, boron,magnesium ,calcium because each of those plants use those nutes in higher levels than the other.



Again, your correct, but this goes back to my rose/marijuana example, where a plant specific nutrient is going to get you closer to "optimal" and require less "reading" of the plants. Strain specifics might cause slight issues withing a plant specific nute line, but nothing like issues with using plant specific nutes and the non specified plant. If we didn't need different formulas for different plants there wouldn't be orchid, african violet, rose, tomato, etc. specific nutes, unless you believe that is also just marketing hype..

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I believe it is all marketing hype and roses are the worse.

WeedFreak78 said:

Your right, i should have stated it better, same needs just different levels. Basically what i was saying is that certain nute lines are tailored more to the needs of a certain plant than others, even though they will work across a broad range of plants. A rose formula might have higher concentrations of say N, K, Chlorine, and iron and a marijuana formula may need to have higher concentrations of P, boron,magnesium ,calcium because each of those plants use those nutes in higher levels than the other.



Again, your correct, but this goes back to my rose/marijuana example, where a plant specific nutrient is going to get you closer to "optimal" and require less "reading" of the plants. Strain specifics might cause slight issues withing a plant specific nute line, but nothing like issues with using plant specific nutes and the non specified plant. If we didn't need different formulas for different plants there wouldn't be orchid, african violet, rose, tomato, etc. specific nutes, unless you believe that is also just marketing hype..

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if I was nute company making nutes that need to work for someone with no experience in growing, i would make "plant specific nutes"
According to your theory, My king louie needs the same nutrients as my bubba, but My roses need different nutes. I guarantee i can grow all of them with a bottle of dyna gro and they would all grow great. I would just adjust the AMOUNT of that dyna gro for the plants needs. It really doesn't know what label is on it. It just knows it has the correct amount of all the essential nutes.

The thing about plant food, is you cannot force the plant to grow, and if you try it will stunt...stop growing.

And if everything is there in a healthy concentration, not overdose, it will just take what it needs that day.

If you add Cal/Mag and Silica, you can grow with Miracle Grow. I don't change the feed for bloom.

I just use a 16-16-16 supplemented with C/M&S (I add) Only the PPM changes at the rate of 100 ppm added per 6 inches of height.

nicksol86 said:

Thanks for the help. Appreciate it. I don't know shit man. I'm a noob which is why I joined. To learn from you guys. I'm just researching stuff and getting ready for my first grow. Advanced nutrients can go fuck themselves. Lyiars. I won't buy shit from them now. Everyone on this site told me the owners a pedophile and AN is overpriced bullshit. I was about to fall for the noob scandal til I joined this site. Now I think I'll go with GH or Canna. Depends on if I go soil less or dwc. Haven't made up my mind yet. Still got a lil time to research and learn before I buy. Been going hard for 2 months learning all i can. Thanks for your help

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Let me help you. And a few of us actually will. Forget the scandals. Never say Nute. It is not a word. This is plant food or just feed.

Don't go DWC, at first. Even if you are a crack plumber like myself you will still pump water onto the floor. My record was 5 gals at one time.

Forget brands. These brands are for raising flowers, with brilliant colors, etc. This is not a flower, it is a bract, like hops.

Feed every day, on a timer, drain back to your insulated reservoir. According to light and space you can get up to 2 inches a week of growth. I average out, getting a 24 inch plant in 8 weeks, beginning from a 6 inch clone.

Get roots the first week in a cup.

Plant in a fully drained inert media, like coco coir and hydroton 50./50

You only need to measure PPM, but you must measure PPM. Get the $40 pen and you are done.

BTW, I've had good luck with @Uncle Ben and his good advice. When I plant the clone after a week of rooting, I bury it deep, down to another leaf node or 2. I get more rooting and a stronger plant, more yield ultimately.

I hope you get from the above, this is a hybrid technique. Not soil, not DWC. The best of both.

chuck estevez said:

if I was nute company making nutes that need to work for someone with no experience in growing, i would make "plant specific nutes"

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And that's exactly why they do it, and for people who want a nute that's matched close enough to what they are growing so they don't have to play with additive/mixing ratios/etc to combat macro deficiencies and still get a well grown, healthy plant that produces within expectation. Its all about nutrient ratios, not just individual nutrient concentrations.

chuck estevez said:

According to your theory, My king louie needs the same nutrients as my bubba, but My roses need different nutes. I guarantee i can grow all of them with a bottle of dyna gro and they would all grow great. I would just adjust the AMOUNT of that dyna gro for the plants needs. It really doesn't know what label is on it. It just knows it has the correct amount of all the essential nutes.

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Ok, I love these types of convo's, PITA to have on a forum though..lol. So ,using dyna grow, take all my measurement as just examples, idk what actual mixing ratios are.. Lets say 5ml/gal is good for roses, but there are deficiencies at that level in marijuana, now you go up to say 7ml/gal for the MJ, your upping the deficient nutrients, but now you are also upping all the others that weren't deficient and could have already been at the upper level of tolerance for MJ, possibly causing issues in other areas, such as lockouts. Using a plant specific formula is going to get you closer to the ratios that plant needs from the start, or you will need to buy additional supplements, run the dyna-gro at a base 5ml/gal mix and add supplements to make up and deficiencies.

Again I say, "It's about nutrient ratios, not just individual nutrient concentrations"

You COULD use a 5-20-20 nutrient to grow anything if you wanted to play with mixing ratios for each individual plant species, but at some point your going to have to add just the N, not keep upping the amount of base 5-20-20 or you'll overload on P and K.

IDK, I'm heavily medicated and ramblng..does this even make sense..

Here's what I say to those who think a marijuana plant specific fertilizer is more than marketing hype.

WeedFreak78 said:

And that's exactly why they do it, and for people who want a nute that's matched close enough to what they are growing so they don't have to play with additive/mixing ratios/etc to combat macro deficiencies and still get a well grown, healthy plant that produces within expectation. Its all about nutrient ratios, not just individual nutrient concentrations.



Ok, I love these types of convo's, PITA to have on a forum though..lol. So ,using dyna grow, take all my measurement as just examples, idk what actual mixing ratios are.. Lets say 5ml/gal is good for roses, but there are deficiencies at that level in marijuana, now you go up to say 7ml/gal for the MJ, your upping the deficient nutrients, but now you are also upping all the others that weren't deficient and could have already been at the upper level of tolerance for MJ, possibly causing issues in other areas, such as lockouts. Using a plant specific formula is going to get you closer to the ratios that plant needs from the start, or you will need to buy additional supplements, run the dyna-gro at a base 5ml/gal mix and add supplements to make up and deficiencies.

Again I say, "It's about nutrient ratios, not just individual nutrient concentrations"

You COULD use a 5-20-20 nutrient to grow anything if you wanted to play with mixing ratios for each individual plant species, but at some point your going to have to add just the N, not keep upping the amount of base 5-20-20 or you'll overload on P and K.

IDK, I'm heavily medicated and ramblng..does this even make sense..

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I think the point chuck pointed out was about how even different strains of marijuana are going to uptake nutrients at different ratios, so how can AN be all things to every pot plant without adjusting the amount/ratios given. Answer, it can't. So regardless of using AN, GH, or dynagrow the grower will always have to adjust for the plant they're growing. It is uncommon that multiple strains will be happy with the same exact feed, and using AN will not change that. That is why they put pretty pictures and convincing words on the labels and in ads.
Not that AN is bad, I'm sure it works just like any fertilizer, it's just unnecessary.

I use a.n . It'll get you close on ph but you need a ph reader . Get a 10$ drop one . That simple

I filed the taxes. They got accepted by federal and state. Within the next 21 days i will be ordering my equipment. I'm going hydro with General Hydroponics nutrients. Two 1000 watt dimmable lumatek digital ballasts. I do have a question about my reflector. I want an air cooled hood. Shud i go with a glass tube or the bigger metal ones? Like on htgsupply.com I dunno if I shud get the easy cool 8 or the straight 8 reflector. Any help on which is better?

I'm going hps for flower and mh for veg. 1000 watts. All in one room. Not wasting money on tents.

So no separate veg/flower space?

No. All in one room. My ballast are conversion. I can use metal halide for veg. Then just switch the bulbs to high pressure sodium when its time to flower.

I'm using a pro built hydro system with a resevoir. The plants won't move at all. They will be in single buckets but ebb n flo so combined. I'm using the 6.5 gallon bubble food grade safe bucket system

nicksol86 said:

I filed the taxes. They got accepted by federal and state. Within the next 21 days i will be ordering my equipment. I'm going hydro with General Hydroponics nutrients. Two 1000 watt dimmable lumatek digital ballasts. I do have a question about my reflector. I want an air cooled hood. Shud i go with a glass tube or the bigger metal ones? Like on htgsupply.com I dunno if I shud get the easy cool 8 or the straight 8 reflector. Any help on which is better?

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I would get an air cooled hood with the tempered glass on it if I were you. I have a hood and a cool tube and the hood is ten times better

nicksol86 said:

No. All in one room. My ballast are conversion. I can use metal halide for veg. Then just switch the bulbs to high pressure sodium when its time to flower.

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You may want to consider a veg space.. Has many advantages and doesn't have to be much