Root gel and some experiments

panhead

Well-Known Member
I'm thinking of an experiment, althugh it may kill my plant. I currntly have two seedlings no bigger than an inch, if I were to ad a very very small amount in the water for one of them I could see if it over takes the other? Or would it just kill the thing?
In the picture i posted of the growth spurt bud in the background are 4 seedlings in party cups,i scraped the stalks & applied the same paste that i added to the water at the same time as feeding that plant the hormone,no ill effects so far,the clones i applied it too are also still healthy.
 

Maccabee

Well-Known Member
Ok great,your here,i was just getting ready to pm you,from your links earlier in the thread you've obviously been researching this also,heve you read anything about using Gibberellic Acid or have you tried using it,this is becomming pretty interesting.

Btw,i have been trying to digest the info in your link all evening.
Yep, alongside the auxins IAA and NAA, Gibberellins are among the most popular and studied hormones/regulators.

Gibberellins are directly related to the abscisic acid group of phytohormones, as is the auxin group. IAA (and IBA) are in the auxin group. There are others. Have a look at this table:

Plant Hormones

The abscisic acid group is so named as it was first found in high concentrations in freshly fallen (abscissed) leaves/fruits. Abbreviated as ABA, it is primarily a growth inhibitor. The displacement of ABA is associated with increase in Gibberelin levels, prompting renewed growth or the triggering of another stage. For instance, ABA is part of the seed dormancy mechanism that allows seed to overwinter and not sprout during a warm winter period and part of the mechanism that prevents pre-mature flowering. Seeds have a lot of ABA, the levels drop triggering germination, then after the seedling is ready the levels drop again triggering vegetative growth, etc.

So, what is gibberelin? Gibberelins are a class of hormone that figure prominently in the seed germination mechanism as well as regulating the growth of internode cells in relation to light intensity. It is gibberelin that causes plants to stretch under low intensity light. Etiolated plants grown in near-darkness have gibberelin levels off the charts. Thus, supplementation with gibberelin can boost germination and can increase internode growth and bud/fruit size, but will stretch the plant by increasing internode distance.

Meanwhile, auxins in conjunction with other hormones (whose production it helps to regulate) control rooting, cell growth, and fruiting. IAA and NAA are the most often seen auxins. IBA (aka I-3-BA) is also very common. There are other less frequently seen forms of auxin, but I've found much less reliable information on them, some seem to be trademarked synthetic versions of the above. From what I've assimilated, IBA (or IAA) is to be preferred over NAA. IAA and IBA are naturally occurring in the plant, where as NAA is a synthetic auxin. For some stages of growth, like budding/ripening, NAA is an inhibitor rather than an activator (as is the case with many of these hormones.) Here's a snippet on synthetic auxins. Note the last part: not all auxins are something that you'd want in your marijuana garden!

Synthetic auxins, like naphthalene acetic acid, of NAA, are used extensively to promote root formation on stem and leaf cuttings. Gardeners often spray auxins on tomato plants to increase the number of fruits on each plant. When NAA is sprayed on young fruits of apple and olive trees, some of the fruits drop off so that the remaining fruits grow larger. When NAA is sprayed directly on maturing fruits, such as apples, pears and citrus fruits, several weeks before they are ready to be picked; NAA prevents the fruits from dropping off the trees before they are mature. The fact that auxins can have opposite effects, causing fruit to drop or preventing fruit from dropping, illustrates an important point. The effects of a hormone on a plant often depend on the stage of the plant's development. NAA is used to prevent the undesirable sprouting of stems from the base of ornamental trees. As previously discussed, stems contain a lateral bud at the base of each leaf. IN many stems, these buds fail to sprout as long as the plant's shoot tip is still intact. The inhibition of lateral buds by the presence of the shoot tip is called apical dominance. If the shoot tip of a plant is removed, the lateral buds begin to grow. If IAA or NAA is applied to the cut tip of the stem, the lateral buds remain dormant. This adaptation is manipulated to cultivate beautiful ornamental trees. NAA is used commercially to prevent buds from sprouting on potatoes during storage.
Another important synthetic auxin is 2,4-D, which is an herbicide, or weed killer. It selectively kills dicots, such as dandelions and pigweed, without injuring monocots, such as lawn grasses and cereal crops. Given our major dependence on cereals for food; 2,4-D has been of great value to agriculture. A mixture of 2, 4-D and another auxin, called Agent Orange, was used to destroy foliage in the jungles of Vietnam. A non-auxin contaminant in Agent Orange has caused severe health problems in many people who were exposed to it.
Cytokinins, another group and a word which may be familiar from seaweed/kelp product marketing, synergize with auxins, and also help to counteract apical (top) dominance by mediating the distribution of auxins and so encourage branching and lateral growth. They also slow the senescence (aging) of tissues.

Ethylene, conversely, inhibits leaf growth and encourages stem growth as well as speeding senescence and abscission of tissue--therefore, it is associated with the early vertical growth of seedlings, as well as the ripening of flowers and fruit (potentially continuing to the point of spoilage.) Ethylene also seems to be related to stem thickening, and in germination seedlings that encounter an obstacle in rising to the surface of the soil have an elevated ethylene level allowing them to thicken and exert more force, as well as helping them to counteract geotropism and 'go around' the obstacle. Plants caused to develop thicker stems by exposure to wind also have elevated ethylene levels (I would conjecture that this is why too strong a fan on your plants leads to leaf drop on lower growth--too much ethylene at the base of the plant in response to air turbulence.) In commercial fruit growning, often the production of ethylene, and so the ripening of tissues, is suppressed before the product is shipped closer to market at which point ethylene gas is introduced to cause ripening.

There are some other minor groupings of hormones that are either thought to serve auxillary functions (such as physiological signaling) or which are thought to have functions similar to those above but are not yet widely studied or well understood.

This is a decent place to start for a big picture, if the stuff I posted yesterday is too thick to make sense of:

Plant hormone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Incidentally, if you like this kind of stuff I can't recommend this book highly enough:
Amazon.com: Botany for Gardeners: Brian Capon: Books
Botany for Gardeners - Google Book Search
 

Maccabee

Well-Known Member
Ok more questions if you dont mind.

Taken directly from the 2nd to last quote in your post.

RIB1 is also less sensitive to IBA in stimulating lateral root formation & hypocotyl elongation under most,but not all light & surcose conditions studied.With one exception,(low light & 1.5% sucrose).RIB1 demonstrated wild type responses to IAA under all conditions studied.

Ok now,if i have this right then sucrose is a natural sugar ? and if this is correct & once again presuming that im half way understanding any of this these sugars can or will react with the Indole-3 & create abnormal growth ?

The reason i ask this is once i read that link,when i got to the part about the interaction with sucrose it struck me that maybe my use of molasses durring watering has created this abnormal growth rate im experiencing.
If I'm reading the abstract correctly, the RIB1 individuals failed to exhibit the typical response to IBA under most conditions, but did respond to IAA, except at low levels of light and nutrient. That is to say that the low light/sucrose thing, I'm guessing, refers to one of multiple conditions tested and it sounds like a deficient condition rather than an abundant one. I'd bet that the other conditions had more of both. The idea in this experiment was to find individuals that for some reason couldn't use IBA but could use IAA; by finding the difference between normal and defective individuals they hoped to nail down the relationship between IBA and IAA and possibly how the former is converted to the latter (if indeed it is.)

So, the only thing it's really saying vis a vis molasses is that without enough sugars present, a plant that normally could make use of IAA supplementation may fail to do so. However, normal levels of carbs are probably sufficient for expected hormonal response, I would think you would have a problematic hormone imbalance before you reached the point that you'd have to add sugars to sustain the hormonal response. Most likely, the low light/sucrose group mentioned failed to respond to IAA simply because they lacked fuel for metabolism. To get to that point of exhaustion via hormone supplementation would require applications of toxic levels of hormone--or an herbicidal auxin designed to do just that (as mentioned peripherally above)
 

thegigglepimp

Well-Known Member
right well im undergoing my own experiment. A very weak solution including the gel has been given to one of my two seedlings. Now im not going to check back until this time tomorrow or later and see if there is any difference between the two plants. Knowing my luck the only difference will be that the one i used the gel on will be dead.
 

Budsworth

Well-Known Member
If rooting gel made the stem bigger I think I will rub some on a smaller flowering bud and see what happens.
 

the Pope

Active Member
that is weard i have had a plant do that before but i didnt have any cloning jell it just did it itself like right in the middle of the plant it did that Y is my question
 

Maccabee

Well-Known Member
I wonder what would happen if I rubbed the rooting jel on my ......ah nm bad idea



lol


Shakespearean humor on RIU!




No, seriously.


'Root' was a common slang term for penis during the Shakespearean period (and still is in some places.)

We also get "rutting" from "root." ('Rut' possibly being closer to the pronunciation used at the time.)

[The double meaning and usage of the verb for animals feeding was part of the expressiveness of the slang, but these days the latter meaning (animal feeding behavior) has eclipsed the former (anatomical) in the connotation of the sexual idiom and so we've kind of lost the conscious linkage.]

Rooting compound indeed! "No profit grows where there is no pleasure ta'en," I suppose. Heh.

Shakespeare's Bawdy - Google Book Search
 

MsMILFweed

Well-Known Member
Interesting thread... I did a similar thing a few weeks ago. I had a couple clones where I had cloning gel which came up about an inch or so on the stem above the medium surface. After a couple weeks where the gel was the stalk start growing these white wart looking things (growth trying to be a root?).

I think I threw the clones away in the end, I'll have to check and see if I have any photos. BTW, the cloning gel I was using is the Orange Rootech stuff.
 

pinksensa

Well-Known Member
Okay this is a branch that I cut and put in water meaning to clone it after some gardening chores...got put off but i promised myself that when i saw the slightest droop i would clone it....well it never drooped and it went in the cup Friday night 3/21 so ironically the night fdd started the rooting gel thread I noticed the white warts on the fucking branch ie roots forming so i lubed it up w/ rooting gel MIND YOU when i put it in the cup i didnt put ANY rooting gel on it I was in a hurry and just dropped it in..since the rooting gel lubing the roots are dramatically coming out more....

sorry the some of the pics are so blurry i did my best but you can see the little white things on the end those are the roots..
 

thegigglepimp

Well-Known Member
Is it just me or does rooting gel absolutely stink? I have an organic version so i doubt its as effective as the versions your using, but opening it almost makes me retch. Its fresh and only used it two or three times.
 

pinksensa

Well-Known Member
Is it just me or does rooting gel absolutely stink? I have an organic version so i doubt its as effective as the versions your using, but opening it almost makes me retch. Its fresh and only used it two or three times.
kinda and i used to not get it on my fingers cuz it says not to on it lol but w/this experiment i have used my finger a couple a times and it gets really cold for some reason....


PANHEAD .... FDD come look at my pics on this thread!!:mrgreen:
 

Maccabee

Well-Known Member
kinda and i used to not get it on my fingers cuz it says not to on it lol but w/this experiment i have used my finger a couple a times and it gets really cold for some reason....
oh, shit! Don't answer the phone! You'll die in seven days!




Just kidding.




That branch looks awesome. I've always wondered if it wasn't possible to propagate larger branches as you never really see it. Well, now I know it is! Cool.

I want to play, but I'm having trouble finding an IBA gel at my local stores. I may have to order some.
 

We TaRdED

Well-Known Member
thanks so much...when i see something that i can take a pic of that isnt so blurry ill post it
just hold it an extra 4 inches back or so.

in your second pic it looks like it was more focused on the starbucks logo which is about 4 inches behind your cutting.:peace:
 

KingTeg

Well-Known Member
if you cut a line down the bottom of the clone and then dip it in gel or powder (i personally like powder better higher sucess rate than gel) it develops more roots and roots faster =) interesting thread very in depth on plant rooting hormones i like that always something interesting to read here ... there has to be a downside to using it tho
it may show up later down the road you never now will be interesting to follow where this goes... happy 420(where i am :mrgreen:):blsmoke::blsmoke::blsmoke::blsmoke:
 
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