Scientist says all cannabis basically the same?
- Thread starter TimBar
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Somatek
Well-Known Member
This is convoluted & is a poor description of pheno vs genotype. Humans in general don't make a good analogy but the best would be;
-if you had two identical twins they'd be the same genotype.
-if at birth you separated them & over fed one & under fed the other you'd have 2 different phenotypes: fat one created by a lush environment & emaciated one created by harsh environment. They still have the same genes controlling their metabolism but the environment they were raised in created different expressions because of varied stimuli.
We select plants based on their phenotype (unless you're doing DNA analysis & have mapped the genome), by growing it long enough & making crosses/observing the offspring we try to understand the genotype.
Somatek
Well-Known Member
Assuming you're growing the 20 seeds in one room, exposed to the same environment you'd be seeing 4 different phenotypic expressions of 4 different genotypes. If you took 4 clones of the same plant & grew it in 4 different rooms you'd have 4 phenotypic expressions of 1 genotype. I hope that clears things up.
Lucky Luke
Well-Known Member
Look way i see it.
10/10 seeds show some same traits. (genotypes)
But each expresses certain different individual traits. (phenotypes)
Phenotype is "skin deep" so to speak.
Genotype is whats at the cellular level.
Comparing humans to plants is a bad analogy. (you cant cross a human, with a chimpanzee)
But genotype and phenotype exist in humans as well.
Its a biological term.
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Somatek
Well-Known Member
What we observe is the phenotype, which is the result of the genotype + environment. The only way we can look at the genotype is through DNA sequencing. If you aren't looking at the genes you're looking at the phenotype.
That is exactly my point dude.
Preservation is the key.
Such a pain staking process. But crossing two of the same genotypes, from different parents, hundreds of generations apart is the key, no?
Its just barely anyone can be arsed to do such a thing anymore. Because its so costly, and time consuming. Its a crying shame.
Its ruining all the genes. Too much inbreeding going on.
All any grower cares about these days is yield and $$$$$
TimBar
Well-Known Member
Not sure I am sold on this explanation. The plant grows best under MH/HPS because of its breeding and selection? or is it really the environment?
A plant has some basic structures and needs and I doubt even the greatest of scientists could develop a strain of any plant to grow better under a particular artificial light vs another artificial light.
TimBar
Well-Known Member
How would you breed genotypes? your selections process can only be based upon Phenos...unless you are at the molecular level.
Beachwalker
Well-Known Member
My opinion is too many chuckers and so-called breeders are concerned that it smells like a banana or a freaking Cherry Pie etc. and not concerned enough about the high (exactly the opposite of the purpose of the plant) I think that's a lot of what's happened to diminished ganja over the last decade or so..?
What im saying is. Each parent needs to be generations apart. I believe its the key to its preservation.
But growing commercially is a totally different thing. Inbreeding is almost an advantage.
In my opinion all the strains now. Are all hybrids. And all very close genetically.
Its only taken a few decades too. And i hate to see our selection in a few more.
As we know. There are thousands and thousands of strains. But everyone is buying from the same breeders to make their own.
I think there would only be a handful of people on earth to still have those original genes. And there's no way theyre handing those out.
Novabudd
Well-Known Member
I dont want my weed to smell like a friggin christmas tree or a lemon. Seems to be like wine now with initial taste burst of ( whatever) flavor then a pleasing after-taste with lingering hints of something. Really ? WTF ? Next thing will be smoking jackets. And make sure your pinkie is held just so as you toke. For fck sake twist some green and relax. Good shit man.
Lucky Luke
Well-Known Member
Depends what your smoking. I smoke a fair % of joints and I want a nice lingering mouth taste that isn't destroyed early. Dabbing is all about taste but doesn't need to linger in the mouth so much and of cause a Cone is hell hot but over fast.I dont want my weed to smell like a friggin christmas tree or a lemon. Seems to be like wine now with initial taste burst of ( whatever) flavor then a pleasing after-taste with lingering hints of something. Really ? WTF ? Next thing will be smoking jackets. And make sure your pinkie is held just so as you toke. For fck sake twist some green and relax. Good shit man.
I actually enjoy the different tastes, but then I also enjoy different beer, rye whisky and wine. Used to enjoy a nice cigar when I use to smoke to. It all depends on what you want to smoke or your market.
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TimBar
Well-Known Member
Too many Pollen Chuckers? Do you blame them? With 10-25 dollars a seed, cheese and rice, chuck some pollen.I dont want my weed to smell like a friggin christmas tree or a lemon. Seems to be like wine now with initial taste burst of ( whatever) flavor then a pleasing after-taste with lingering hints of something. Really ? WTF ? Next thing will be smoking jackets. And make sure your pinkie is held just so as you toke. For fck sake twist some green and relax. Good shit man.
Somatek
Well-Known Member
Depends what you're talking about. Personally I think the only way to preserve a landrace would be open pollination in the region of origin with minimal selection (except rogueing out off types).
Most "strains" I don't think could be preserved because they're unstable polyhybrids. Stable IBL could be preserved by open pollination of enough plants to maintain the hardy-weinberg equilibrium (ie without selective pressure the expression of genes & genotypes will remain constant). Crossing parents of different generations is the work around pot growers have used because of limited population sizes but is rarely used in traditional line breeding. With stable seedlines & large populations to work with keeping mothers/fathers becomes obsolete.
I look at the current genepool mostly as one big heterozygous strain with infinite variations. A lot of bud has a generic taste/effect (more so since modern kush were introduced) which I assume comes from selecting for size & THC/potency without considering taste or quality of effect. My guess is that legalisation is going to bring a shift as the average quality goes up & people have selection which allows them to develop a palate.
Somatek
Well-Known Member
In the 90's people didn't care about flavours because the market didn't demand it. Once people started noticing the good smelling/tasting bud sells faster & for more obviously people started selecting for those traits more.I dont want my weed to smell like a friggin christmas tree or a lemon. Seems to be like wine now with initial taste burst of ( whatever) flavor then a pleasing after-taste with lingering hints of something. Really ? WTF ? Next thing will be smoking jackets. And make sure your pinkie is held just so as you toke. For fck sake twist some green and relax. Good shit man.
It's not about snobbery for most, it's quality of experience. If I'm smoking 1/2 ounce/day I don't want the same taste endlessly, I want variety. Do you eat the same food day in & day out or do you vary the flavours & textures to increase enjoyment? To each there own, some never will care about flavours others do. Saying one is right would be like saying there's a right & wrong way to eat when it doesn't matter.
Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
i've started chucking, make my own CS. prices are crazy.
most "breeders" are just chuckers that can't reproduce the same strain twice. i don't mind paying for fire genetics, but when i get 4 different phenos out of a pack of 5 feminized seeds, that's not breeding, that's chucking.
most "breeders" are just chuckers that can't reproduce the same strain twice. i don't mind paying for fire genetics, but when i get 4 different phenos out of a pack of 5 feminized seeds, that's not breeding, that's chucking.