Should we have participated in WWII?

bearkat42

Well-Known Member
Institutional racism is all but dead and gone. I've read plenty of articles that talk about how much easier it is for blacks to advance in the workplace. Every corporation out there likes to point out how many blacks they have in management positions.

Other than in the hearts and minds of individuals I don't know where this big gap you talk about between the equality of the races exist?

I think the biggest gap and one I'll concede to is the legacy of all our past ills. Blacks are more likely to be born into a poor family becuase of the discrimination of the past. That is hard to correct for. But one thing that doesn't help it is the number of black babies that are born to a single parent. That isn't forced upon the black community, that handicap is self inflicted,
Institutional racism is all but dead and gone? Really?

1. Let’s start with pre-school. Black pre-schoolers are far more likely to be suspended than white children, NPR reported. Black children make up 18 percent of the pre-school population, but represent almost half of all out-of-school suspensions.

2. Once you get to K-12, black children are three times more likely to be suspended than white children. Black students make up almost 40 percent of all school expulsions, and more than two thirds of students referred to police from schools are either black or Hispanic, says the Department of Education.

3. Even disabled black children suffer from institutional racism. About a fifth of disabled children are black – yet they account for 44 and 42 percent of disabled students put in mechanical restraints or placed in seclusion.

4. When juveniles hit the court system, it discriminates against blacks as well. Black children are 18 times more likely to be sentenced as adults than white children, and make up nearly 60 percent of children in prisons, according to the APA. Black juvenile offenders are much more likely to be viewed as adults in juvenile detention proceedings than their white counterparts.

5. In the workplace, black college graduates are twice as likely as whites to struggle to find jobs - the jobless rate for blacks has been double that of whites for decades. A study even found that people with “black-sounding names” had to send out 50 percent more job applications than people with “white-sounding names” just to get a call back. And it gets worse the higher up the pay scale you go. For every $10,000 increase in pay, blacks’ percentages of holding that job falls by 7 percent compared to whites.

6. A black man is three times more likely to be searched at a traffic stop, and six times more likely to go jail than a white person. Blacks make up nearly 40 percent of arrests for violent crimes.

7. Blacks aren’t pulled over (and subsequently jailed) more frequently because they’re more prone to criminal behavior. They’re pulled over much more frequently because there is an “implicit racial association of black Americans with dangerous or aggressive behavior,” the Sentencing Project found.

The numbers get ridiculous in certain parts of the country, the project found. On the New Jersey Turnpike, for instance, blacks make up 15 percent of drivers, more than 40 percent of stops and 73 percent of arrests – even though they break traffic laws at the same rate as whites. In New York City, blacks and Hispanics were three and four times as likely to be stopped and frisked as whites.

8. But the disparities become appalling in court. If a black person kills a white person, they are twice as likely to receive the death sentence as a white person who kills a black person. Local prosecutors are much more likely to upgrade a case to felony murder if you’re black than if you’re white.

9. Juries are stacked against you if you’re black. Racial bias in jury selection is ridiculous – qualified black jurors are illegally turned away as much as 80 percent of the time in the jury selection process. The result? About a quarter of juries in death penalty cases have no black jurors, and more than two-thirds have two or less. When a black person is accused of killing a white person – and the jury consists of five or more white males – the odds go way up for a death penalty verdict. Defense lawyers, and prosecutors, know that having just a single black man on the jury substantially changes the odds.

10. Black people stay in prison longer than white people – up to 20 percent longer than white people serving time for essentially similar crimes. They get much harsher sentences – black people are 38 percent more likely to be sentenced to death than white people for the same crimes.

11. And the color of the skin of the victims matters greatly in the punishment for capital crimes. Whites and blacks represent about half of murder victims from year to year, but 77 percent of people who are executed killed a white person, while only 13 percent of death row executions represent those who killed a black person.
 
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ThickStemz

Well-Known Member
Your statistics and examples there are a little eye-opening, I must admit. However, they seem to boil down to a couple of things.

With regard to the statistics on children. There is no accounting there for what the behavior was. In data I've seen the outcomes of blacks and poor whites is about the same. Black children are much more likely to grow up in a single parent home.

The distinctions you note are more of a class based distinction. Also the factor that pays a roll is urbanization. People who live in rural areas are much less likely to get caught doing drugs and stuff, people in urban environments are much more likely the have to interact with law enforcement that is more highly trained and looking for trouble, vs the Barney Fife type of rural sheriff deputy.


http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/07/18/chart-of-the-week-the-black-white-gap-in-incarceration-rates/
Here we can see that the rates very quite a bit based on Education. Black men with a high school education are much closer to white men with respect to their incarceration rates.

More evidence it is class based. From the evidence I've seen someone would have a hard time distinguishing the things were discussing between poor whites living in urban environments and their black neighbors. They're all but identical.

Even in the data I post there is discrepancies in black v white and they're shouldn't be. The struggle continues. But were a lot closer towards that goal than you're indicating.

When you correct for social factors outcomes are fairly close. And its no surprise to me when you name your kid something crazy sounding people judge before they know the individual.
 

bearkat42

Well-Known Member
Your statistics and examples there are a little eye-opening, I must admit. However, they seem to boil down to a couple of things.

With regard to the statistics on children. There is no accounting there for what the behavior was. In data I've seen the outcomes of blacks and poor whites is about the same. Black children are much more likely to grow up in a single parent home.

The distinctions you note are more of a class based distinction. Also the factor that pays a roll is urbanization. People who live in rural areas are much less likely to get caught doing drugs and stuff, people in urban environments are much more likely the have to interact with law enforcement that is more highly trained and looking for trouble, vs the Barney Fife type of rural sheriff deputy.


http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/07/18/chart-of-the-week-the-black-white-gap-in-incarceration-rates/
Here we can see that the rates very quite a bit based on Education. Black men with a high school education are much closer to white men with respect to their incarceration rates.

More evidence it is class based. From the evidence I've seen someone would have a hard time distinguishing the things were discussing between poor whites living in urban environments and their black neighbors. They're all but identical.

Even in the data I post there is discrepancies in black v white and they're shouldn't be. The struggle continues. But were a lot closer towards that goal than you're indicating.

When you correct for social factors outcomes are fairly close. And its no surprise to me when you name your kid something crazy sounding people judge before they know the individual.
"With regard to the statistics on children. There is no accounting there for what the behavior was. In data I've seen the outcomes of blacks and poor whites is about the same. Black children are much more likely to grow up in a single parent home."
Translation: Black kids cause more trouble than white kids.

"The distinctions you note are more of a class based distinction. Also the factor that pays a roll is urbanization. People who live in rural areas are much less likely to get caught doing drugs and stuff, people in urban environments are much more likely the have to interact with law enforcement that is more highly trained and looking for trouble, vs the Barney Fife type of rural sheriff deputy."
We're only talking about those who've been caught. Not the one's that got away. If you and I go commit the exact same crime and be both have no criminal record, I'm punished more severely. And guess what? Both of my parents were at home, and planted firmly in the "middle class".

"http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/07/18/chart-of-the-week-the-black-white-gap-in-incarceration-rates/
Here we can see that the rates very quite a bit based on Education. Black men with a high school education are much closer to white men with respect to their incarceration rates."

What about white men without a high school education? Do they not commit crimes? And from your same source: In 2010, all black men were six times as likely as all white men to be incarcerated in federal, state and local jails, according to a 2013 Pew Research Center study. And I will readily acknowledge that class plays some role in this, but race is the overall determining factor. If not, poor whites would be incarcerated at the same rates.

"And its no surprise to me when you name your kid something crazy sounding people judge before they know the individual."
Who are you to judge whether or not someone's name is "crazy sounding" or not, and what does that have to do with the person's ability to do the job? That's mighty white of you to say.
 

CrocodileStunter

Well-Known Member
Give me an example. Not to challenge you but to better understand.

Last summer when Mike Brown was shot the whole 'hands up don't shoot' thing started until we found out his hands weren't up and he in fact attacked the cop and seemed to be coming back to finish him off. So that evolved into Black Lives Matter.
Mike Brown didn't attack that faggot ass cop. They tell you anything and you believe them.
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
"With regard to the statistics on children. There is no accounting there for what the behavior was. In data I've seen the outcomes of blacks and poor whites is about the same. Black children are much more likely to grow up in a single parent home."
Translation: Black kids cause more trouble than white kids.

"The distinctions you note are more of a class based distinction. Also the factor that pays a roll is urbanization. People who live in rural areas are much less likely to get caught doing drugs and stuff, people in urban environments are much more likely the have to interact with law enforcement that is more highly trained and looking for trouble, vs the Barney Fife type of rural sheriff deputy."
We're only talking about those who've been caught. Not the one's that got away. If you and I go commit the exact same crime and be both have no criminal record, I'm punished more severely. And guess what? Both of my parents were at home, and planted firmly in the "middle class".
Do you commit crimes? Maybe it is because you had parents at home and were from the middle class that you didnt....

"http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/07/18/chart-of-the-week-the-black-white-gap-in-incarceration-rates/
Here we can see that the rates very quite a bit based on Education. Black men with a high school education are much closer to white men with respect to their incarceration rates."
What about white men without a high school education? Do they not commit crimes? And from your same source: In 2010, all black men were six times as likely as all white men to be incarcerated in federal, state and local jails, according to a 2013 Pew Research Center study. And I will readily acknowledge that class plays some role in this, but race is the overall determining factor. If not, poor whites would be incarcerated at the same rates.
Most of the crimes that black people commit are crimes against other black people. Do you recommend we do not prosecute these crimes or would that be considered racist by you?
 

bearkat42

Well-Known Member
Do you commit crimes? Maybe it is because you had parents at home and were from the middle class that you didnt....



Most of the crimes that black people commit are crimes against other black people. Do you recommend we do not prosecute these crimes or would that be considered racist by you?
Whites and blacks represent about half of murder victims from year to year, but 77 percent of people who are executed killed a white person, while only 13 percent of death row executions represent those who killed a black person.
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
I just took another hit and realized...

This kid is black and from the MIDDLE class and he wants to talk to me about oppression... I grew up middle class too. Dont remember repressing anyone.
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
Whites and blacks represent about half of murder victims from year to year, but 77 percent of people who are executed killed a white person, while only 13 percent of death row executions represent those who killed a black person.
So stay out of jail.. PROBLEM SOLVED!!!
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
I'm 45, and this isn't just about "me".
The way you describe yourself, it is not about you at all. You grew up middle class and live a good life.

The issue is socio-economic not racial. You perceive it as so because more minorities are in the lower socioeconomic level.

You cannot incarcerate more white people because 'Racism' and you cannot incarcerate less minorities because 'Racism' so you get to call racism no matter what. Pretty easy eh?
 

bearkat42

Well-Known Member
The way you describe yourself, it is not about you at all. You grew up middle class and live a good life.

The issue is socio-economic not racial. You perceive it as so because more minorities are in the lower socioeconomic level.

You cannot incarcerate more white people because 'Racism' and you cannot incarcerate less minorities because 'Racism' so you get to call racism no matter what. Pretty easy eh?
Uh huh.
 

ThickStemz

Well-Known Member
"With regard to the statistics on children. There is no accounting there for what the behavior was. In data I've seen the outcomes of blacks and poor whites is about the same. Black children are much more likely to grow up in a single parent home."
Translation: Black kids cause more trouble than white kids.

"The distinctions you note are more of a class based distinction. Also the factor that pays a roll is urbanization. People who live in rural areas are much less likely to get caught doing drugs and stuff, people in urban environments are much more likely the have to interact with law enforcement that is more highly trained and looking for trouble, vs the Barney Fife type of rural sheriff deputy."
We're only talking about those who've been caught. Not the one's that got away. If you and I go commit the exact same crime and be both have no criminal record, I'm punished more severely. And guess what? Both of my parents were at home, and planted firmly in the "middle class".

"http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/07/18/chart-of-the-week-the-black-white-gap-in-incarceration-rates/
Here we can see that the rates very quite a bit based on Education. Black men with a high school education are much closer to white men with respect to their incarceration rates."

What about white men without a high school education? Do they not commit crimes? And from your same source: In 2010, all black men were six times as likely as all white men to be incarcerated in federal, state and local jails, according to a 2013 Pew Research Center study. And I will readily acknowledge that class plays some role in this, but race is the overall determining factor. If not, poor whites would be incarcerated at the same rates.

"And its no surprise to me when you name your kid something crazy sounding people judge before they know the individual."
Who are you to judge whether or not someone's name is "crazy sounding" or not, and what does that have to do with the person's ability to do the job? That's mighty white of you to say.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, I've no interest in debating this ad nausium with you. I didn't say black kids cause more trouble, what I said was black kids are far more likely to be born into circumstances that don't exactly favor a well adjusted well behaved child. Black kids could be kicked out at 10 times the rates of whites and if each individual child did something worth being kicked out of school for then you really cant say its a discrepancy, they've earned it. There are far too many factors involved to just say that's racial bias.

You and I both seem to agree that race isn't the sole factor, you seem to think its the predominate factor, I think it just a contributing factor that doesn't make much difference.

Equally situated whites and blacks have very similar outcomes. Poor black innercity kids don't do well compared to middle class white suburban kids in regard to education, employment, and with the law.
 

bearkat42

Well-Known Member
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, I've no interest in debating this ad nausium with you. I didn't say black kids cause more trouble, what I said was black kids are far more likely to be born into circumstances that don't exactly favor a well adjusted well behaved child. Black kids could be kicked out at 10 times the rates of whites and if each individual child did something worth being kicked out of school for then you really cant say its a discrepancy, they've earned it. There are far too many factors involved to just say that's racial bias.

You and I both seem to agree that race isn't the sole factor, you seem to think its the predominate factor, I think it just a contributing factor that doesn't make much difference.

Equally situated whites and blacks have very similar outcomes. Poor black innercity kids don't do well compared to middle class white suburban kids in regard to education, employment, and with the law.
I put the evidence in your face, but go ahead and believe what you want to believe.
 

ThickStemz

Well-Known Member
Mike Brown didn't attack that faggot ass cop. They tell you anything and you believe them.
The citizens of the community where it happened provided lots of evidence saying he did, indeed do just that. Mike Brown killed himself. I'm glad the worthless piece of shit is dead. Got what he deserved on his way home from robbing and intimidating a poor defenseless old man running a store for some blunt wrappers.

The funniest thing about this incident was at every step along the way Mike Brown took the only path that could have lead to his death. Seems the cop initially made contact to tell them to not walk in the street. What kind of idiots walk in the street to begin with?

Then he refused, forcing the cops hand, to engage more closely, so he stops the car and attempts to get out, So Mike Brown kicks in the door and punches the cop, as he flees, the cop gets out, Mike Brown turns around and comes right back.

Forensic evidence tells us it was impossible his hands were up.
 

ThickStemz

Well-Known Member
I put the evidence in your face, but go ahead and believe what you want to believe.
I don't say your evidence is false, I'm saying there are other ways to interpret it. You choose to look at it in the light most favorable to your biases. You down play the other factors that contribute, single parenting is now a generational thing for African Americans. And its totally self imposed. It isn't the man or the white devil that causes black women to have two thirds of the next generation of black Americans with no father in their life. 72% of black kids born into a single parent home... http://newsone.com/1195075/children-single-parents-u-s-american/

Where we fall short now is pretty much only in areas that are generational. If someone goes out, starts a business, has success, it positively effects their descendants for a number of generations. If one of their grand kiss is at some point charged with a crime, the family will likely have money to hire a good attorney and get a decent outcome. Whereas if the family is poor (white or black) they get an appointed attorney with no time to give their defense and the government shits on them and throws them in jail.

I guess I'm saying time will fix all the wrongs we have now, as more and more black folks enter the middle class, the future will change itself.
 

red w. blue

Well-Known Member
I don't say your evidence is false, I'm saying there are other ways to interpret it. You choose to look at it in the light most favorable to your biases. You down play the other factors that contribute, single parenting is now a generational thing for African Americans. And its totally self imposed. It isn't the man or the white devil that causes black women to have two thirds of the next generation of black Americans with no father in their life. 72% of black kids born into a single parent home... http://newsone.com/1195075/children-single-parents-u-s-american/

Where we fall short now is pretty much only in areas that are generational. If someone goes out, starts a business, has success, it positively effects their descendants for a number of generations. If one of their grand kiss is at some point charged with a crime, the family will likely have money to hire a good attorney and get a decent outcome. Whereas if the family is poor (white or black) they get an appointed attorney with no time to give their defense and the government shits on them and throws them in jail.

I guess I'm saying time will fix all the wrongs we have now, as more and more black folks enter the middle class, the future will change itself.
You were still just playing straight man to foggy a bearcat.
 
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