Should We Tolerate Religion?

ventricle01 said:

Well although there may not be a "document" (i.e religious texts, or scientific document) that proves to your understanding that there is a higher being. My belief in a Higher being alone acknowledges that i have an Open Mind. FYI most of the world does believe in a Higher being, although the rest of us may not know when we die....I dont think anyone does in my opinion Higher being or not! I dont believe in someone pulling strings because i have a firm belief in each person controlling their own destinies.

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Cool, as long as you are in control of your own life. Here is an interesting question for ya. Most people believe in a higher being right? What percentage of the worlds population are truly intelligent? The last time I checked, it wasn't a very high percentage. Coincidence or relevant?

Last time i checked i had a high IQ.
Maybe i now have a low IQ from believing in Jesus.

It's not a certainty. Just an interesting finding.

mountainSpliff said:

Should we be tolerating religion when it is the cause of war and ignorance?

Religions dont tolerate each other or anyone outside them.

Why should we tolerate religion?

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Why not tolerate religion? I mean I tolerate non-religion.......so why not vice versa?

Be careful of the people who preach beLIEf.

I just want people to know that what Jesus actually said and did and whats written in the bible may well be 2 different things.
They can read the lost Aramaic texts for themselves online.

I am not a bible basher and i do not wish to force my religion onto anyone.
I truly believe that a man must walk his own path until he finds what hes looking for and learns what he needs to.
How many lives this takes is really up to him or her

mountainSpliff said:

Ok ok I don't want to upset anyone. It's just a question. When I asked it, I was thinking back to the 9/11 attacks. Bush went on international tv and used the word "crusade". That was a blatent verbal attack on another religion. Not only a religion, but millions of people. I see what he believed to his core as serious bullshit. I dont think we should tolerate that sort of religious behaviour. Sometimes it can be complete bullshit. What he said made no sense. Terrorist's believe to their core that what they are doing is right. It's their religion. People don't tolerate that. They act against it.

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mountainSpliff said:

Obviously we can't ban people from believing in something.
If you want to be religious, then be religious. Half my family is religious and I love them to pieces.

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Again, it's not their religion. The Qur’An is a beautiful work of inspirational poetry at the very least, and it is groups such as Al Qaeda and the various sects of Islam that distort it. And President Bush is a follower of a twisted organized religion, as well.
The reason I say that people don’t really kill SIMPLY for their RELIGION in this day and age is because most people understand that murder in the name of millennia old documents is wrong. And if they don’t, then they were going to kill someone sooner or later anyway, no matter the creed to accompany it. It's when they rally behind the words of humans, and not their deities, that bad things occur.
Organized religion. Not religion. That’s my point. Always has been.

And I don't believe I have the typing endurance to fully enunciate how much I loathed your point on intelligence vs. religion. Suffice to say that in regards to anyone judging anyone's intelligence in such a brazen and arrogant way, my stomach turns.

mountainSpliff said:

When someone is as powerful as bush, they should at least be able to think before they speak. It's disturbing.

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I’m glad we can agree on something, J.

mountainSpliff said:

Instead of preaching or trying to change the world, why can't people lead by example rather. Jesus did.

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Christ WAS a preacher. That’s what all of his travelling and words were. The sermon on the mountain, his conversations with the Apostles, etc.

mountainSpliff said:

I hope I have clarified my point a little better this time.

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mountainSpliff said:

I haven't attacked anyone on a personal level here except bush, yet I have been called "zero minded and arrogant". It's a debate people.

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I apologize for going off on you a bit, mate. But then again, no one would say, "No matter how deep seated a man's bullshit is, it's still bullshit," in a proper debate. Come to think of it, I'm quite sure I complimented you in my post.
Also, you didn’t simply attack Bush. Look back at your previous words BEFORE you “clarified” your point. Those are what I addressed, back when it was the only thing to address.

The Analogy of the Cave applies to all dogma, not just religion. The first amendment guarantees us the right to worship, or not worship, in our own fashion. For me it stops right there. One cannot legislate morals. The root of prohibition is one group imposing its moral code on everyone else.

Johnnyorganic said:

The Analogy of the Cave applies to all dogma, not just religion. The first amendment guarantees us the right to worship, or not worship, in our own fashion. For me it stops right there. One cannot legislate morals. The root of prohibition is one group imposing its moral code on everyone else.

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Exactly.
Jesus never said we should force anyone to do anything.
Only people have done and said this

Reprogrammed said:

Again, it's not their religion. The Qur’An is a beautiful work of inspirational poetry at the very least, and it is groups such as Al Qaeda and the various sects of Islam that distort it.

And I don't believe I have the typing endurance to fully enunciate how much I loathed your point on intelligence vs. religion. Suffice to say that in regards to anyone judging anyone's intelligence in such a brazen and arrogant way, my stomach turns.

I’m glad we can agree on something, J.

I apologize for going off on you a bit, mate. But then again, no one would say, "No matter how deep seated a man's bullshit is, it's still bullshit," in a proper debate. Come to think of it, I'm quite sure I complimented you in my post.
Also, you didn’t simply attack Bush. Look back at your previous words BEFORE you “clarified” your point. Those are what I addressed, back when it was the only thing to address.

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I apologise for not being more clear in my first post's but then again I am not powerful or even that intelligent. I can afford to make mistakes.

I never claimed anything against a particular religion. It seems most religions have the 'organised' aspect going on. As for the pic, it was the first pic I came across.

The intelligence point is a documented study by many differant people over a long period of time. No one is judging anyone. They were studies and the conclusions were the results.

Apology accepted. I do understand that this a controversial subject.
My intentions are nothing more than learning more about life. It's people like you that I learn the most from.

Almost every nation in Europe had laws based on religion. This is not the case anymore as society has become less tolerant of religion.
Society in general is today far more intelligent than it was 100 years ago.
It's definately a relevant point.

we should not tolerate it
















we should embrace it.

I don't believe in religion. I think it's a way for people to explain stuff they don't know in a fantasy sort of way. Its ridiculous for someone to tell me "love everyone thats what jesus did" And then ten seconds later that person is speeding down the road. To me if your speeding there you little religious freak it means ur not loving everyone because you could potentionally kill someone. Or even driving for that matter. You driving ur little religious truck pollutes the air I breath, you're not loving me i guess, do I give a shit no.

I used to work with one of these mother fuckers. He was my cousins business partner and my second boss..

He would always say, you need to find god, your going down the wrong path, weed is wrong, and blah blah blah until I would tell him just to fucking shut up.

Now this same man, had kids when he was 16, and obviously hasn't read the bible since they mention weed multiple times.

I would say stuff to him like. Excuse me man but you can't even run a successful business or put food on your table for your kids that you had when you were 16 and your telling me what to do? Get off my nutz man. lol

how can you blame religion for all the evils of the world. yes, just like anything else religion can be used by greedy and foolish men, to exploit others. but relgion is not the cause of this evil it is merely a vehicle like anything else. mountain spliff you must look a bit deeper, in this issue. and look at the real cause of these evils. which is intolerance. the same thing that you now preach.

I will try to stay Swiss on this answer and this is what I think. Radicals and those who EXPLOIT religion for their own selfish benifets are the ones who give religion a bad name. If you look at the basic principles of 95% of the religions out there they are decent things, treat others well dont steal dont lie ect.. these are good basic morals that people should adbide by anyways. Religion has given many people hope, new beginnings and soemthing to believe in during rough times that helps them through it. Now there are tons of things that people exploit for their own selfish purposes Religion Unfortunately is just another victim of human nature. I think if we start to censor or banned things like this then we are taking away not just the constitution but our rights as a person, our right of free will choice and free thought. this is somethign that NO MAN has a right to take away from another. Wigmo said it best. What I believe we SHOULD NOT TOLERATE is those who are radicals harming others, those who exploit it for their own selfish purposes, those are the things we should not tolerate. live2die420 I think you can point out wrongs of everyone, that is human nature, we are not perfect, but we are to strive for perfection. and at the same time forgiveness is key, regardless of religion or not that needs to be learned. Everyone makes mistakes, its only a problem when you make the same ones over and over and dont learn or correct them and dont care too. I am religious and I will say it no problem but I am not going to point a finger at someone and point out their wrongs, i would rather set an example through my actions of life. the way I view weed is God made the earth it was here and i will use it but at the same time I will be productive to society and use it with good judgement, free will is ours and we must be responsible. I will nto sit on my couch day after day after day getting high not only is that not bettering myself but I contribute nothing to society and if everyone did that or even half or the society did that we could not properly fucntion as a civilization.


I will believe what I believe and will stand up and not deny what I believe, to deny is to not believe, I will be open minded to Ideas and your beliefs but I will stand by my beliefs, at the same time I will respect others just as I was taught and raise and I will respect your beliefs, I will not put you down or tell you, you are wrong, but I do believe I am right.

Wigmo said:

how can you blame religion for all the evils of the world. yes, just like anything else religion can be used by greedy and foolish men, to exploit others. but relgion is not the cause of this evil it is merely a vehicle like anything else. mountain spliff you must look a bit deeper, in this issue. and look at the real cause of these evils. which is intolerance. the same thing that you now preach.

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I guess you didn't read the whole thread? If you did, you would have realised that I am not preaching but merely debating.

Maybe you should look deeper...

"I despise what you say, but I defend to the death your right to say it". Discuss.

In a time long ago, when most had no education etc, religions were the very glue of society. They gave us a moral code, and in many cases even our written laws, most of which still stand today.

Do we still need them? Well i dont. Obsolete. Today, instead of taking us forward as a race, religions are dragging us backwards to live again in the darkage. Turn ya lights on and wake up.

let me think about it... no... fuck organized religion... fuck religion in general.

CaliGurl said:

I will try to stay Swiss on this answer and this is what I think. Radicals and those who EXPLOIT religion for their own selfish benifets are the ones who give religion a bad name. If you look at the basic principles of 95% of the religions out there they are decent things, treat others well dont steal dont lie ect.. these are good basic morals that people should adbide by anyways. Religion has given many people hope, new beginnings and soemthing to believe in during rough times that helps them through it. Now there are tons of things that people exploit for their own selfish purposes Religion Unfortunately is just another victim of human nature. I think if we start to censor or banned things like this then we are taking away not just the constitution but our rights as a person, our right of free will choice and free thought. this is somethign that NO MAN has a right to take away from another. Wigmo said it best. What I believe we SHOULD NOT TOLERATE is those who are radicals harming others, those who exploit it for their own selfish purposes, those are the things we should not tolerate. live2die420 I think you can point out wrongs of everyone, that is human nature, we are not perfect, but we are to strive for perfection. and at the same time forgiveness is key, regardless of religion or not that needs to be learned. Everyone makes mistakes, its only a problem when you make the same ones over and over and dont learn or correct them and dont care too. I am religious and I will say it no problem but I am not going to point a finger at someone and point out their wrongs, i would rather set an example through my actions of life. the way I view weed is God made the earth it was here and i will use it but at the same time I will be productive to society and use it with good judgement, free will is ours and we must be responsible. I will nto sit on my couch day after day after day getting high not only is that not bettering myself but I contribute nothing to society and if everyone did that or even half or the society did that we could not properly fucntion as a civilization.


I will believe what I believe and will stand up and not deny what I believe, to deny is to not believe, I will be open minded to Ideas and your beliefs but I will stand by my beliefs, at the same time I will respect others just as I was taught and raise and I will respect your beliefs, I will not put you down or tell you, you are wrong, but I do believe I am right.

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The 95% of religions you speak of maybe cover 5% of the worlds population. Also all religions have faults. As does just about everything on earth. It's natural to have faults.

I am glad that you are open to ideas and that you can respect other's opinions. Just by being 'swiss' tells me that you don't tolerate aspects of your religion. You at some point in your life asked questions, passed judgement and progressed. There have been a good few people who got angry about my opinions. I see that as being hypocritical.

Certain religious aspects have negative influence on peoples lives. This is a very broad spectrum.

Whether you like it or not, society has been becoming less tolerant of religion for a long time now. Most of Europe's countries had laws based on religion. Not the case any more. Why is that? It was illegal for gay people to get married in most parts of the world because of religion. This is changing. Why is that? Women were regarded lesser than man. This has changed, but still happens all over the world.

Do you tolerate the abuse of women? If not, then how can you tolerate a religion that does?

It would be stupid to tell people what they have to believe and even more stupid to allow someone to suffer because of anothers selfish beliefs.

To all those who have gotten angry with my comments, I am merely exposing my opinions to the scrutiny of others so that I might learn something. One of the things I have learnt here is that quite a few people are grossly intolerant of other peoples opinions without trying to understand them first. However, it is encouraging to see that there are actually quite a few people out there who are also continuously asking questions.

Inevitably the more questions people ask the more they progress in life.
If you don't understand this then why not at least try?

mountainSpliff said:

The 95% of religions you speak of maybe cover 5% of the worlds population. Also all religions have faults. As does just about everything on earth. It's natural to have faults.

I am glad that you are open to ideas and that you can respect other's opinions. Just by being 'swiss' tells me that you don't tolerate aspects of your religion. You at some point in your life asked questions, passed judgement and progressed. There have been a good few people who got angry about my opinions. I see that as being hypocritical.

Certain religious aspects have negative influence on peoples lives. This is a very broad spectrum.

Whether you like it or not, society has been becoming less tolerant of religion for a long time now. Most of Europe's countries had laws based on religion. Not the case any more. Why is that? It was illegal for gay people to get married in most parts of the world because of religion. This is changing. Why is that? Women were regarded lesser than man. This has changed, but still happens all over the world.

Do you tolerate the abuse of women? If not, then how can you tolerate a religion that does?

It would be stupid to tell people what they have to believe and even more stupid to allow someone to suffer because of anothers selfish beliefs.

To all those who have gotten angry with my comments, I am merely exposing my opinions to the scrutiny of others so that I might learn something. One of the things I have learnt here is that quite a few people are grossly intolerant of other peoples opinions without trying to understand them first. However, it is encouraging to see that there are actually quite a few people out there who are also continuously asking questions.

Inevitably the more questions people ask the more they progress in life.
If you don't understand this then why not at least try?

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Well to be blunt and to bring up my personal beliefs no my religion sees everyone equally, men and women, women are not below men nor the opposite. I try to be nuetral as far as my opinion goes pertaining to the question not to my personal belief however. Now referencing back to my original point yes it is absolutely ridiculous and of no ones right to take away the free will and free belief and thought of another but yes at the same time I also said that religion is used basically as a tool for some people and some radical groups for there own selfish wants and benefits again I stated this should not be tolerated, but religion its self the basic beliefs of something should not be taken away from someone, in my opinion if your "religion" is one that harms another person or may cause damage to someone else then this is not a true religion this is some off the wall radicalist that believe they are above others and man set laws, like I said before is not the basis of most religions. buddism, christianity, judaism and even muslims ect... (these are just common ones I can think of) all have basic principles of the golden rule and have good moral principals. I haev had the opportunity to study religion abroad and have found that even though these religions (mentioned above) all have those good basic moral principals you still come across those radicalist and self benefitign self proclaimed religious freaks, that may not be politically correct but that is what it is. Now with that being said, I am not saying religion is perfect as youmust remember it is another person interpretation of what they believe has been God ordane (god being a general reference to the higher being in any religion) but what i see again as the main issue with religion is the Exploitation of it by the wrong people ( meaning those radicals or self benfiting) lets take the great reveren jackson he exploits beyond belief or you can also look at the radical muslims that are really just terrorist usign the muslim religion as an escape goat to condon their inhumane actions. or howabout the jahova witnesses that knock on your door at 6am on sunday to hand out pamphlets ok so there are people in all walks of life and religion that give their religion a bad name from the most extreme to the minute. The point being that no matter what issue we are discussing, religion, racism ect.. there will always be issues/tension and it comes from with in the poeple involved. When you have soemthing so monumental as religion that is captivaty to a majority then you will always have those people out there who are looking to make a quick buck or use it for their own agenda. With that said I think we should not take a belief away from someone rather try to weed out the garbage. But those who will not tolerate it are just as bad as the radicals and self benefiting as they are feeding fuel to the fire.

and here I thought this was just a ganja forum glad we can all discuss topics diplomatically.