SIP thread -- (Sub-Irrigated Planter)

raggyb

raggyb

Well-Known Member
Made a few different home made Sips. Some working better than others but no logic to it yet. Here a sort of side by side. These 2 were born at the same time and grew in Solos. The left was just a little bigger at the time and I put it in the SIP. The right I put in a 1 gal fabric pot. Left was a little further from light actually. It probably had a 30 day head start in the SIP. Then I put the right in a SIP, about 7 days ago. Here they are

both.JPG nle.JPG mwe.JPG

It's not perfect comparison because they only 1/4 the same genetics and the big could be male and the small female, and so on. It's funny because the big one started getting huge even at first when I hardly put any water in and the wick wasn't working meaning the level wasn't moving and the air gap was like 9 inches and I was only top watering so I don't know why it took off but it did.
 
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NewGrower2011

Well-Known Member
So looking for some of the SIP guru's to help me plan my first attempt; I've had some containers I was sitting on otherwise thinking of making them flood & drain setups but after a couple organic runs in 7gal smart pots I'm looking into the SIP angle but the whole wick size & material thing is an aspect I haven't quite gotten my mind made up on.

I'm looking at these Rubbermaid Brute Totes; They nest within each other very nicely so the 14gal sitting in the 20gal seems to make a nice snug fit and appears it should leave a modest reservoir size. I know it's somewhere around that 4 gal range which I'm again unsure if that's a sufficient size or not.

https://www.rubbermaidcommercial.com/material-handling/storage/brute-totes-with-lid/?sku=FG9S3100GRAY

There's white food grade versions but I already have 3 of each in grey so for now that's my start; Wish I had gotten the food grade ones but I found these in-store a few years back and knew they were rugged and good for the hobby! ;-)

Any recommendations on wick setup/material in that footprint? I'd like 2 wicks I think as I'll likely put 2 plants per and it also makes sense on helping distribute the moisture it's wicking.
 
raggyb

raggyb

Well-Known Member
NewGrower2011 said:
So looking for some of the SIP guru's to help me plan my first attempt; I've had some containers I was sitting on otherwise thinking of making them flood & drain setups but after a couple organic runs in 7gal smart pots I'm looking into the SIP angle but the whole wick size & material thing is an aspect I haven't quite gotten my mind made up on.

I'm looking at these Rubbermaid Brute Totes; They nest within each other very nicely so the 14gal sitting in the 20gal seems to make a nice snug fit and appears it should leave a modest reservoir size. I know it's somewhere around that 4 gal range which I'm again unsure if that's a sufficient size or not.

https://www.rubbermaidcommercial.com/material-handling/storage/brute-totes-with-lid/?sku=FG9S3100GRAY

There's white food grade versions but I already have 3 of each in grey so for now that's my start; Wish I had gotten the food grade ones but I found these in-store a few years back and knew they were rugged and good for the hobby! ;-)

Any recommendations on wick setup/material in that footprint? I'd like 2 wicks I think as I'll likely put 2 plants per and it also makes sense on helping distribute the moisture it's wicking.
Click to expand...
Can I chime in as a non-expert? I'm just starting and totally messing around. I think your totes look a good choice and though food grade sounds great think I'd be glad not to have white because i think you don't want light in the reservoir. I just started one probably close to that size using two 4" netpots. Needed a nice lip on them though so they dont fall through. The soil is getting damp all the way to the top and two plants in there each directly above a netpot and doing fine. I felt I wanted something plain in the wick so water doesn't get icky so I put 80% pete 20% perlite in the netpot only and it seems fine. I recommend you make a level gage of some kind described earlier if you weren't already thinking of it.
P.S. I drilled extra holes in the top of the netpot for roots to grow through into the airgap.
 
meangreengrowinmachine

meangreengrowinmachine

Well-Known Member
NewGrower2011 said:
So looking for some of the SIP guru's to help me plan my first attempt; I've had some containers I was sitting on otherwise thinking of making them flood & drain setups but after a couple organic runs in 7gal smart pots I'm looking into the SIP angle but the whole wick size & material thing is an aspect I haven't quite gotten my mind made up on.

I'm looking at these Rubbermaid Brute Totes; They nest within each other very nicely so the 14gal sitting in the 20gal seems to make a nice snug fit and appears it should leave a modest reservoir size. I know it's somewhere around that 4 gal range which I'm again unsure if that's a sufficient size or not.

https://www.rubbermaidcommercial.com/material-handling/storage/brute-totes-with-lid/?sku=FG9S3100GRAY

There's white food grade versions but I already have 3 of each in grey so for now that's my start; Wish I had gotten the food grade ones but I found these in-store a few years back and knew they were rugged and good for the hobby! ;-)

Any recommendations on wick setup/material in that footprint? I'd like 2 wicks I think as I'll likely put 2 plants per and it also makes sense on helping distribute the moisture it's wicking.
Click to expand...
The inntainers pdf I posted earlier is very similar to this ans uses 5 inch net pots. It is what I have been running for about... 2 years ish now? And they are awesome and fool proof! Welcome to the easiest growing ever!
 
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NewGrower2011

Well-Known Member
So the wick deal, when I looked at how the containers nest it appears there's basically 9" gap to bottom. That's a 22x14 footprint so somewhere around 9.8g if I did my math correct. So large enough I think after all even with an air gap of a couple inches.

Now, does the wick have to make it all the way to the bottom? I'm assuming yes - unless you top water and get them to finally send roots down which I don't want to do that I want wicking from day 1. I was wondering about literally using net pots with nylon rope wicks that dangle into the rez and then the wick material would hopefully draw from them Not sure on what materials can I use or any I should not for that matter.

Otherwise it looks like I need to use pvc pipe of some sorts or that drainage corrugated pipe; Seems like best options readily available to the layman at big box stores. I was looking for some type of flanges to use and was coming up with nothing on last store trip but will be searching online shortly.
 
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NewGrower2011

Well-Known Member
Another Q I hadn't fully resolved - when nested there's about a 1/4 gap around that would let considerable air in/out to the rez. On the one hand I think allowing the air exchange is a good thing, but then I think about the heat transfer and evaporation/humidity control aspects. It looks like something I could easily get some of that window/door trim foam stuff and make it a snug fit if I want to seal things up better but I wasn't sold either way.
 
Tstat

Tstat

Well-Known Member
Hey guys, I am not using SIPs yet as I am still vegging and waiting for the remaining hydro plants to finish up. I am running into a problem as the plants get bigger. I started a thread over on the MJ Plant problems area, but I figure I'd post it here as well.

Clones are in 1 gallon pots with organic soil. I use a combo of Greentree Growers Blend, Happy Frog, perilite, coco, and verm. I use tap water to water and have used a small amount of Roots Organics Buddha Grow.
I am just starting to grow organically after decades of hydro, so I am not used to diagnosing deficiencies. This symptom is showing up as the plants get bigger. This one is now 3-4 weeks old. Could it be due to the plant needing a repotting? Cal Mag problem? Something else?

Any help will be greatly appreciated. I want to get over to the grow store today and get whatever I need to fix this!
 
Avant_Gardener

Avant_Gardener

Active Member
Tstat said:
Hey guys, I am not using SIPs yet as I am still vegging and waiting for the remaining hydro plants to finish up. I am running into a problem as the plants get bigger. I started a thread over on the MJ Plant problems area, but I figure I'd post it here as well.

Clones are in 1 gallon pots with organic soil. I use a combo of Greentree Growers Blend, Happy Frog, perilite, coco, and verm. I use tap water to water and have used a small amount of Roots Organics Buddha Grow.
I am just starting to grow organically after decades of hydro, so I am not used to diagnosing deficiencies. This symptom is showing up as the plants get bigger. This one is now 3-4 weeks old. Could it be due to the plant needing a repotting? Cal Mag problem? Something else?

Any help will be greatly appreciated. I want to get over to the grow store today and get whatever I need to fix this!
Click to expand...
Off the top of my head, my first thoughts are it look like a potassium issue.
 
raggyb

raggyb

Well-Known Member
NewGrower2011 said:
Another Q I hadn't fully resolved - when nested there's about a 1/4 gap around that would let considerable air in/out to the rez. On the one hand I think allowing the air exchange is a good thing, but then I think about the heat transfer and evaporation/humidity control aspects. It looks like something I could easily get some of that window/door trim foam stuff and make it a snug fit if I want to seal things up better but I wasn't sold either way.
Click to expand...
So if you have 9" that's a bit more than I thought and a 5" pot would be better than 4" then. I'm trying things out too, but I think dangling some fabric strips is a good idea but not sure about nylon rope.

On the airgap I'm not sure I understand why your bins don't nest right. I thought there would be no air gap. I have a gap on a bin in a bin but it's because the top bin is sitting on bricks in the bottom bin to raise it up. I put some weather proof in but some of that stuff is like totally toxic so I used stuff that isn't toxic but it didn't fit perfect. I was more worried about light getting in. Maybe stuffing a towel in would be just as good. 1 or 2 drill holes will let air in too.
 
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NewGrower2011

Well-Known Member
On these specific Brute totes, the handles are heavy duty and the top tote rests atop the bottom due to the handles overhanging. So with that a small gap remains between the sides of the top & the rim of the bottom.

I need to do a weight test to mimic the full soil load but I suspect it'll be fine - these things are very thick/well built which is why I was targeting them. Can't have leaks from cheap shitty totes cracking - I had that on a 1st timer aero cloner DIY build and came home to find it dry but no signs of water anywhere cuz' it was all in my floor/carpet pad. How many pounds would an average super soil weigh you think? When fully wet/saturated and that would be my worse case load test target I'd imagine - that plus a little weight for plant itself (hopefully lots of weight but you get my point ;-) )
 
raggyb

raggyb

Well-Known Member
NewGrower2011 said:
I'm not a risk taker, so I may just make a small pvc frame to support the top tote weight as a just-in-case move and cover the what-ifs.
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probably a good idea if the top tote doesn't 'snap on the bottom one. I had one design fail where I made a platform out of the lid and it collapsed to the bottom. The funny thing is the plants in that one are doing fine even though the soil is totally soggy. So probably the whole bin is a wick.

From that I think you can estimate on the high end to be safe the weight of wet soil by the weight of water or maybe a little less. So if you have like 10G soil in there wtf how heavy is water, .. uh 1L is 1kg so what, 36kg which is ~80lbs. So fucking heavy. Test it with a couple dumbells before filling.
 
MustangStudFarm

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
Tstat said:
Hey guys, I am not using SIPs yet as I am still vegging and waiting for the remaining hydro plants to finish up. I am running into a problem as the plants get bigger. I started a thread over on the MJ Plant problems area, but I figure I'd post it here as well.

Clones are in 1 gallon pots with organic soil. I use a combo of Greentree Growers Blend, Happy Frog, perilite, coco, and verm. I use tap water to water and have used a small amount of Roots Organics Buddha Grow.
I am just starting to grow organically after decades of hydro, so I am not used to diagnosing deficiencies. This symptom is showing up as the plants get bigger. This one is now 3-4 weeks old. Could it be due to the plant needing a repotting? Cal Mag problem? Something else?

Any help will be greatly appreciated. I want to get over to the grow store today and get whatever I need to fix this!
Click to expand...
Have you been using too much Cal or Mag? I've noticed that there are not that many K inputs other than kelp, but kelp has a lot of sodium. I heard that adding coco coir that has the sodium washed out would help with K in your soil mix. I'm assuming that you are using peat. Greensand is another option for K, Mn, and iron but takes a long time to break down.
 
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MustangStudFarm

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
Tstat said:
I am getting really close to needing some SIPs. I have 6 Space Monkeys ready to chop next week. After that, I have 6 more that I will be taking out of the RDWC and putting into 5 gallon DWC buckets, allowing me to dismantle the RDWC and start installing the SIPs!

I have to admit, as it gets closer to a reality, I am nervous about the switch. I’ve been doing hydro for decades and don’t want to mess up a good thing, but I’m done with the RDWC.

I have questions about the soil being too moist from wicking. I still haven’t decided which one to buy. I have questions about using just organic soil and no ferts! I wonder how big the vegged plants should be when I place them in the SIP. Help! :)
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Have you looked into probiotics to go with the SIPs? I'm trying to look out for a fellow Bodhi-head. The only thing that I did different from this video was add a fermented plant juice FPJ.
 
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MustangStudFarm

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
I decided that my 1st SIP was going be exactly the way Alan Adkisson suggested and use an earthbox, grokashi, EM1, and malibu compost. I just didn't want something to go wrong like my homemade grokashi or LABs and I wanted to give it an honest effort before I made the full switch. My clones were in pretty bad shape when I put them in my earthboxes, but they look better than ever. I haven't flowered yet, but I'm sold. I'm about to invest in the "Roots and Veg" style earthbox. The only difference is that it is square and deeper, the cubic feet and rez size are the same.
-March 21st- 2nd week in my new Earthboxes. Clackamas Coots recipe for the soil along with EM1 and FPJ in the rez.
DSC01177.JPG

Alan Adkisson said to add the soil and topdress with Grokashi. Wait a week for the mycelium, then topdress with Malibu compost. He said to get the mycelium mat established before topdressing.
DSC01174.JPG

I've only watered them 2x since March 21st. They are under a 8x bulb T5. There are 2x Earthboxes. Not a single spot or curled leaf anywhere, except for the original growth.
DSC01190.JPG
DSC01191.JPG

EarthBox "Root and Veg" style
 
N

NewGrower2011

Well-Known Member
For anyone curious, I did a weight stress test on those Rubbermaid Brute Totes. I have the smaller one nested within the larger and the weight bearing portion of the setup is basically the plastic handles on the sides of the top tote.

For this test, I stacked a bunch of on-hand supplies into the tub and tried to spread the weight evenly (somewhat) but there was a focus in the dead middle as the supplies included a 5lb bucket of kelp meal with a big bag of ewc and ancient forest - all dead weight. I did one overnight and then added more weight so this was over the course of 2.5 to 3 days. The total weight once I measured and added things up came to 114.3 lb!!!

There is barely a noticeable sag in the bottom of the tub and the handles bearing the load aren't showing any signs of distress. Even with this exercise I may still build a frame in there to help bear the load - but in theory it's over engineering. Now this same test done over a much longer period of time AND HEAT CONDITIONS may result in a different outcome. If the ambient temps weakened the plastic/etc that'd have some bearing on its strength I'm sure.

Now I'm waiting on the last of my supplies to come in before I start thinking about putting it all together and getting any cook time on the soil including the kashi blend I ordered from BAS to help get a good fungal network going. I've got my EM activating/expanding now as well as some bokashi coming.
 
raggyb

raggyb

Well-Known Member
NewGrower2011 said:
For anyone curious, I did a weight stress test on those Rubbermaid Brute Totes. I have the smaller one nested within the larger and the weight bearing portion of the setup is basically the plastic handles on the sides of the top tote.

For this test, I stacked a bunch of on-hand supplies into the tub and tried to spread the weight evenly (somewhat) but there was a focus in the dead middle as the supplies included a 5lb bucket of kelp meal with a big bag of ewc and ancient forest - all dead weight. I did one overnight and then added more weight so this was over the course of 2.5 to 3 days. The total weight once I measured and added things up came to 114.3 lb!!!

There is barely a noticeable sag in the bottom of the tub and the handles bearing the load aren't showing any signs of distress. Even with this exercise I may still build a frame in there to help bear the load - but in theory it's over engineering. Now this same test done over a much longer period of time AND HEAT CONDITIONS may result in a different outcome. If the ambient temps weakened the plastic/etc that'd have some bearing on its strength I'm sure.

Now I'm waiting on the last of my supplies to come in before I start thinking about putting it all together and getting any cook time on the soil including the kashi blend I ordered from BAS to help get a good fungal network going. I've got my EM activating/expanding now as well as some bokashi coming.
Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing the results. Nice job.
 
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