SIP thread -- (Sub-Irrigated Planter)

sandhill larry said:
But the real Raingutter grow system is a true SIP. It has a 3" net cup sunk down into the water. The buckets sits on top of the gutter.

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Sir, TY very much for sharing this information. I am a believer in the SIP's and this will be perfect to continue with the buckets but make multiples easier. The foot print of the 5 gallon SIP is just so convenient. I will have to try this next year out doors with the veggies.
 
Evil-Mobo said:
Sir, TY very much for sharing this information. I am a believer in the SIP's and this will be perfect to continue with the buckets but make multiples easier. The foot print of the 5 gallon SIP is just so convenient. I will have to try this next year out doors with the veggies.
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Larry Hall and RGGS have a huge following on YT and FB. Folks love it. I have done it in kiddie pools as well as a trench. This year I put my water above ground, so I wasn't having to bend over to pick the tomatoes.
 
ttystikk said:
Yes. Only the netcup sits in the water. The rest of the bucket is above.
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the bucke has no holes on the bottom,, like a true sip,, so its just dirt sitting in water,, kinda like your experament,, you wont get hydroponic type growth,, its just bottom watered, thats very differant
 
Therehas to be an understanding that a true sip provides oxygen to the roots through the air gap just setting a bucket in water or putting a net pot in the bottom and setting that in water is not a sip the air gap is what makes the magic happen that guy could just set up a drip on a res and get the same resultas his video but it's not hydroponics/soil hybrid like we do , and i don't get why this is so miss understood by so many
 
Tim Fox said:
Therehas to be an understanding that a true sip provides oxygen to the roots through the air gap just setting a bucket in water or putting a net pot in the bottom and setting that in water is not a sip the air gap is what makes the magic happen that guy could just set up a drip on a res and get the same resultas his video but it's not hydroponics/soil hybrid like we do , and i don't get why this is so miss understood by so many
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Please explain the air gap?

If the net cup is in the water and the bucket is above, how is that not SIPS?
 
Tim Fox said:
Therehas to be an understanding that a true sip provides oxygen to the roots through the air gap just setting a bucket in water or putting a net pot in the bottom and setting that in water is not a sip the air gap is what makes the magic happen that guy could just set up a drip on a res and get the same resultas his video but it's not hydroponics/soil hybrid like we do , and i don't get why this is so miss understood by so many
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I think there might be an air gap in the design in this video and if not then it certainly could be added. But I suspect there is one. The photo Larry shows of his buckets in a plastic trough appears to be more like a hempy setup. There's sub-irrigation in both cases. But, I do agree using a wick and air gap leads to more appropriate moisture & oxygen levels.
 
The rails and gutter system the buckets sit on make it clear there is space between the buckets and the water. @Tim Fox mentioned something about air holes in the soil container?
 
When i get home from work i can copy and paste the drawings from the files section i thinkthe visual will help in this situation
 
Victor6634 said:
I think he is talking about the gap in between water line and top of net cup
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In this case the air gap is separate from the net cup the gap is between the bottom of the bucket and the water level there has to be holes in the bottrm of the bucket ( not the net cup) and the air gets to bthe soil and roots via this gap, also roots cross over the gap and go in to the res forming water roots in the gutter system the bucket over hangs the gutterand just hangs in space without these hole and without the air gap there is no hydroponics type growth but just a regular container gardning but if thTs what a person wants the that's good but i like the explosion growth of air gap sips
 
Tim Fox said:
In this case the air gap is separate from the net cup the gap is between the bottom of the bucket and the water level there has to be holes in the bottrm of the bucket ( not the net cup) and the air gets to bthe soil and roots via this gap, also roots cross over the gap and go in to the res forming water roots in the gutter system the bucket over hangs the gutterand just hangs in space without these hole and without the air gap there is no hydroponics type growth but just a regular container gardning but if thTs what a person wants the that's good but i like the explosion growth of air gap sips
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Definitely need pics then.
 
You could probably create holes in the bottom of the 5 gallon bucket and cover them with landscape cloth, then add dirt. That would create an air/dirt interface. The netpot would still provide the wicking.
 
Several of the pre-fab SIPs use something like a grate along the bottom (from what I've seen in pictures, I've never owned one), and in the early DIY SIPs I built I mimicked this by drilling holes in the bottom of the container that held the soil. It seems like the air gap/wick combination separates hempy from SIP, but I was not aware that the holes between the soil and the res was a defining factor in calling something a Sub-Irrigated Planter.

My first SIPs had those holes, but subsequent ones were patterned more after the Octopot, which I am not aware of as having similar holes (and I believe is considered a SIP?). In my current SIPs which use a fabric pot sitting on a plastic bin/res, there are no holes beyond the large one that houses the wick. I do maintain an inch gap between the top of the res and the water line, and I also use air stones in my res. It's possible that my air stones serve the same function as the holes would, but I think I'm hearing that other designs that don't have the holes also work?

The bottom line is that I consider my current design to be a "SIP", but maybe I'm misusing the term. Perhaps at least for the purposes of accuracy in our conversations, we should structure a definition of SIPs -- even if that ends out being a loose definition.
 
Tim Fox said:
the bucke has no holes on the bottom,, like a true sip,, so its just dirt sitting in water,, kinda like your experament,, you wont get hydroponic type growth,, its just bottom watered, thats very differant
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I'm going to have to go on a limb here Tim and say that this is why they stress the potting soil in the net cup for the wick as it is more aerated. Anyhow I am going to try and incorporate something similar into my indoor grow. The air gap is there it's just open to the environment, adding holes to the bottom of the buckets would be an easy to do thing and most of us using buckets for SIP's already have them. My only concern would be is there enough space in that trench for the roots.............

The hamster is on the wheel we will see how I make it work as a true SIP but using a variation of the design. I want to be able to hook up a float valve and a gravity fed res so I do not have to water as often............maybe I will just stick to my original idea of adding a third bucket as a spacer to increase res size and keep watering each bucket who knows but it would be nice to have a res feeding in for sure............
 
Evil-Mobo said:
I'm going to have to go on a limb here Tim and say that this is why they stress the potting soil in the net cup for the wick as it is more aerated. Anyhow I am going to try and incorporate something similar into my indoor grow. The air gap is there it's just open to the environment, adding holes to the bottom of the buckets would be an easy to do thing and most of us using buckets for SIP's already have them. My only concern would be is there enough space in that trench for the roots.............

The hamster is on the wheel we will see how I make it work as a true SIP but using a variation of the design. I want to be able to hook up a float valve and a gravity fed res so I do not have to water as often............maybe I will just stick to my original idea of adding a third bucket as a spacer to increase res size and keep watering each bucket who knows but it would be nice to have a res feeding in for sure............
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Good point, although the main water roots usually concentrate their growth around or at the wick. The other roots that grow through the bucket holes would air prune themselves possibly. Essentially the plant finds the water and grows the roots where the water is.
 
Looking at some other RGGS videos, many folks drill holes in the buckets, then line them with landscape fabric. That gives you the advantages of air pruning. The holes were in the sides of the buckets though, not the bottom.
 
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