Sleep Medicine

T

Tincandtoke

Active Member
DancesWithWeeds said:
They have crossed the plants so much that you don't really know what you are getting. In the past Big Bud was the go to for sleep. It seems to have sort of faded away like most of the older strains. The best I've found to replace it is Critical Mass.

The reason I avoid CBD for sleep is it blocks the THC from going into the CB receptors. It you are trying to keep a non-user from getting too much just make it weaker. Most recipes start out at 7 grams of budd per cup of oil.
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When dealing with the non user population it seems to help having the CBD act as a buffer
Trying to get people to adhere to step dosing and then the inevitable risk taker from the more is better cult that I have to deal with on occasion
Once someone experiences a green out they get very shy about dosing again
Dealing with an apprehensive crowd
The other golden nugget is that THC is better for pain management too
So trying to develop an edible for patients that want sleep and pain relief without or minimal psychoactive effects
Just about there, need a little more sedation

Just decarbed 7.6 grams of CBD KIEF 26%CBD/.7%THC
About a half gram of 1:1 oil from an old cart
3.5 grams of sour electra CBD flower
Add 1000mg-2000mg of refined RSO
Terpenes added .5% of the weight of the finished RSO/MCT oil (probably will be a drop from a pin head)
 
DancesWithWeeds

DancesWithWeeds

Well-Known Member
Tincandtoke said:
When dealing with the non user population it seems to help having the CBD act as a buffer
Trying to get people to adhere to step dosing and then the inevitable risk taker from the more is better cult that I have to deal with on occasion
Once someone experiences a green out they get very shy about dosing again
Dealing with an apprehensive crowd
The other golden nugget is that THC is better for pain management too
So trying to develop an edible for patients that want sleep and pain relief without or minimal psychoactive effects
Just about there, need a little more sedation

Just decarbed 7.6 grams of CBD KIEF 26%CBD/.7%THC
About a half gram of 1:1 oil from an old cart
3.5 grams of sour electra CBD flower
Add 1000mg-2000mg of refined RSO
Terpenes added .5% of the weight of the finished RSO/MCT oil (probably will be a drop from a pin head)
Click to expand...
One thing about dosing for new or non-users is how to keep the dose small enough to get them started without turning green. Best way I've found is to not give RSO right up front. I start them out on cookies until they understand the high.
 
T

Tincandtoke

Active Member
DancesWithWeeds said:
One thing about dosing for new or non-users is how to keep the dose small enough to get them started without turning green. Best way I've found is to not give RSO right up front. I start them out on cookies until they understand the high.
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The reduction is a mix of thc and cbd
Not straight up thc rso in the traditional extraction
Minimally psychoactive but plenty of other desired effects
It is offered in chocolate squares that are scored for easy micro dosing
1:1 thc/cbd flower extractions are a good way to start non users
Keeps the people who overdo it from greening out
Only green outs were from regular flower extractions
 
Thundercat

Thundercat

Well-Known Member
There was a thread a few years ago where the OP used uv exposure to covert THC into CBN for this exact purpose. He needed sleep meds and it worked for him. He said the final product was so sedative it was almost like an opiate.
 
conor c

conor c

Well-Known Member
Thundercat said:
There was a thread a few years ago where the OP used uv exposure to covert THC into CBN for this exact purpose. He needed sleep meds and it worked for him. He said the final product was so sedative it was almost like an opiate.
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Wouldnt suprise me either bonus points if its a strain high in myrcene as well but its the cbn that makes the difference
 
SoMike

SoMike

Active Member
Thundercat said:
There was a thread a few years ago where the OP used uv exposure to covert THC into CBN for this exact purpose. He needed sleep meds and it worked for him. He said the final product was so sedative it was almost like an opiate.
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I tried that, converting THC to CBN. I read that if you decarb twice as long it will convert THC to CBN.
It did not work for me, I had my capsules tested and there was 15mg/ml THC but only .056 mg/ml of CBN
This was Granddaddy Purple.
 
Thundercat

Thundercat

Well-Known Member
SoMike said:
I tried that, converting THC to CBN. I read that if you decarb twice as long it will convert THC to CBN.
It did not work for me, I had my capsules tested and there was 15mg/ml THC but only .056 mg/ml of CBN
This was Granddaddy Purple.
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I would think that decarbing could be different than the uv exposure. Decarbing works great to activate the THC. UV is known for breaking things down so it made sense it could alter(degrade) the THC in a different manner. Either way just sharing what seemed to work for someone.

I can’t remember now if he used sunlight or a UV lamp for the exposure though.
 
T

Tincandtoke

Active Member
The only extraction that I ever made that was pure sleep medication was a natural 4 month decarb in a cool dark cupboard
It was actually almost a year old by the time I got around to using it

The batch of chocolates I just made put the person out but did not relieve the pain
THC relieves pain better than any other cannabinoid from my personal experience
Unfortunately most folks need a bit of THC and that does not work for newbies and non users

Overall I give cannabis an A+ for its variety of applications
Cannot expect it to do everything
But it can be tweaked to fit individual needs
 
Thundercat

Thundercat

Well-Known Member
Tincandtoke said:
The only extraction that I ever made that was pure sleep medication was a natural 4 month decarb in a cool dark cupboard
It was actually almost a year old by the time I got around to using
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I’m about to do an extraction on some material that is about 8-9 months old now. I’m curious to see how it turns out. It was cured and stored in the dark, so it should be interesting.
 
curious2garden

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
Thundercat said:
I’m about to do an extraction on some material that is about 8-9 months old now. I’m curious to see how it turns out. It was cured and stored in the dark, so it should be interesting.
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Looking forward to hearing what you think about what you get. I need to get my butt in gear and do some more extracting.
 
T

Tincandtoke

Active Member
Thundercat said:
I’m about to do an extraction on some material that is about 8-9 months old now. I’m curious to see how it turns out. It was cured and stored in the dark, so it should be interesting.
Click to expand...
I went down too many rabbit holes when I started making edibles
Broke a glass jar with 56 grams in it
Flower was covered in glass dust
Extraction and Buchner funnel filtering followed

The natural decarb and degenerative process seems to make a more balanced sleep product
 
Humanrob

Humanrob

Well-Known Member
@SoMike -- I get your frustration with making CBN. So far the "scientific" material I can find on conversion goes into some detail about the molecular restructuring, and then casually mentions that you can turn THCA into CBNA with "prolonged" exposure to sunlight (specifically UV light)... I haven't found any notes on how long "prolonged" is (I've seen a similar reference in other articles). More information would be great, even if all it is is an explanation of variables and a range of time given. Probably have to subscribe or buy the full article to get that level of detail.

I have UV grow lights, but haven't found a reference to whether it's UVA or UVB that initiates the change (or whether it matters). It would also be nice to know what happens if you over expose it. For instance, I have a "lizard" UV bulb that years ago I fried a plant with by accident. Not knowing how long to use it, it would be nice to know what to expect if the material is over exposed. If I had more discipline I might expose a bunch, hand fill a capsule, try it, and then in intervals continue to re-expose the remainder and retest until I hit the sweet spot.

It's also interesting to me that after exposing the cannabis to UV, you then have to decarb it to convert the CBNA to CBN. There's a bunch of information about the medical benefits of THCA and CBDA, but I've never seen anything about CBNA. I suppose since most people smoke their CBN as a sleep aid, maybe it's not talked about as much, but I only do edibles so that's going to be key for me.
 
Thundercat

Thundercat

Well-Known Member
Humanrob said:
@SoMike -- I get your frustration with making CBN. So far the "scientific" material I can find on conversion goes into some detail about the molecular restructuring, and then casually mentions that you can turn THCA into CBNA with "prolonged" exposure to sunlight (specifically UV light)... I haven't found any notes on how long "prolonged" is (I've seen a similar reference in other articles). More information would be great, even if all it is is an explanation of variables and a range of time given. Probably have to subscribe or buy the full article to get that level of detail.

I have UV grow lights, but haven't found a reference to whether it's UVA or UVB that initiates the change (or whether it matters). It would also be nice to know what happens if you over expose it. For instance, I have a "lizard" UV bulb that years ago I fried a plant with by accident. Not knowing how long to use it, it would be nice to know what to expect if the material is over exposed. If I had more discipline I might expose a bunch, hand fill a capsule, try it, and then in intervals continue to re-expose the remainder and retest until I hit the sweet spot.

It's also interesting to me that after exposing the cannabis to UV, you then have to decarb it to convert the CBNA to CBN. There's a bunch of information about the medical benefits of THCA and CBDA, but I've never seen anything about CBNA. I suppose since most people smoke their CBN as a sleep aid, maybe it's not talked about as much, but I only do edibles so that's going to be key for me.
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I would love to see the results of your testing :). A good experiment can be so much fun.
 
Humanrob

Humanrob

Well-Known Member
Thundercat said:
I would love to see the results of your testing :). A good experiment can be so much fun.
Click to expand...
They can be fun... when we don't completely misjudge the situation. My first attempt at CBN was apparently enough "time, light, heat, and air" to decarboxylate the THC, but not enough UV to convert it to CBN. What I ended out with was a strong enough "edible" in the form of a packed capsule, that I was up half the night tripping balls. I now have 99 remaining capsules of finely ground THC flower for the rare individual with insanely high tolerances. I put a big red warning label on that jar.

I have a second batch of ground material that I'm exposing to many more hours of UV (just that "lizard light" indoors, but the sun when it hits the yard in the afternoon), but I'm not sure whether I'll be able to muster the courage to test them! o_O If I do, it'll be in the morning, I'd rather exercise my connection with reality while the sun is out. There's a bit of irony in attempting to make something to calm and lull myself to sleep, and instead ending out with something that reminds me how fragile the mind can be. :roll:

Ah well, live and learn. :peace:
 
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