So who here is growing in true organic living soil?

You'll have the most natural herb, cheapest to produce, and you just water and amend a bit. No pH measuring, blah blah.

Rrog said:

There is nothing - nothing cheaper or easier than soil. Chem companies have complicated it. After all, it's just dirt, and if you let the microbes alone they will do all the work. Just add water and some simple, cheap amendments. It's also completely forgiving IF the microbes are alive. The problem is we use soil that is likely still too hot, then we add nutes to throw the whole natural scene out of balance.

If the soil is rocking, you'll give hydro a great run for their money. And don't forget, soil can be re-used for maybe a dozen grows before you have to re-mix it. As lond as you add the proper little amendments as you grow. Can't get any cheaper than that.

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I'm learning but I'm saying hydro in soil is turnkey easy and building soil is complicated with much less instruction "on the bottle"-knowwhatimsayin' As for re-use how do you get your roots out? I know the bulk but isnt is not good (I get this from general garden stuff) to have dead roots in your mix or is that just eaten up quicklike and I'm making it harder than it is?

the old roots can become microbe chow what a deal.

It's male human nature to make things harder than it is. Once the plant is chopped, the roots soon die and certain microbes will go dormant. If we instead chop the plant at the base and THEN plop a new little clone or seed next to the old stalk, the microbes will devour the old roots very quickly, store the nutrients and swarm the new plant to protect and feed it. Thing of beauty.

Rrog said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XI5frPV58tY

The power of Mycos. This guy is awesome!

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MORE...MORE VIDEOS! that dude was rad, any and all vids for living soil are badass for me dude best way I learn.

See, nature has amazingly potent things for us, but no corporate advocate. So it's up to us to spread the word.

Rrog said:

It's male human nature to make things harder than it is. Once the plant is chopped, the roots soon die and certain microbes will go dormant. If we instead chop the plant at the base and THEN plop a new little clone or seed next to the old stalk, the microbes will devour the old roots very quickly, store the nutrients and swarm the new plant to protect and feed it. Thing of beauty.

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Nice, you sound like my wife...right. So, you don't turn it over and add more shit and stir and mix and bake before you reuse it, you jsut put another clone in? thats some off the wall shit right there, very against what I've been taught and learned on my own.

Fascinating stuff Rrog! Thanks for sharing!

Rrog---clear your msgs you can't receive PM until you free some space

Rrog said:

See, nature has amazingly potent things for us, but no corporate advocate. So it's up to us to spread the word.

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why would they it's free--

BB- PM space cleared.

C&T it's wild, right? When the roots are converted to nutrients, you can walk over to the remaining stump and flick it off with your finger. No more dead roots holding it in place. Soils will get lighter and fluffier due to months of fungal growth, which adds fluff to soil. The soil is much better after 2-3 cycles. All the minerals and slow-release nutes have been freed up and now available. The microlife has built super-highways (that you would destroy by tilling) that are ready to rock.

So, is sub's supersoil a living soil? I dont see mycos in the ingredients. so how does the fox farms bottled stuff kill the fungi if its so resiliant? WTF is in fox farms that's killing my fungi

Cory and trevor said:

So, is sub's supersoil a living soil? I dont see mycos in the ingredients. so how does the fox farms bottled stuff kill the fungi if its so resiliant? WTF is in fox farms that's killing my fungi

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I was pondering the same question the other day and stumbled upon this:

"Okay, since I wrote Organic Growing from a Microbial Perspective I’ve received feedback which clearly outlines the need to explain the ‘chemicals killing beneficial soil microbes thing’, the role of NPK ratings as well as the pollutants statement. This feedback is justifiable. Please bear with the redundancy of the following. It reflects my attempt to be thorough.

It may be so, that some beneficial microbial life is out and out killed by chemical fertilizers but the more likely cause of death occurs over an extended period which I’ll attempt to explain.

There are bacteria/archaea that will happily feed on chemical fertilizers. Indeed, there are bacteria that will 'feast' on diesel fuel. It is more likely that the use of chemical fertilizers negatively effect soil biota over a period of time. Chemical N (for example) is (to my knowledge) delivered to the roots of plants in ionic form, bypassing the whole microbial nutrient loop, which occurs through degraded organic matter being delivered in several processes; one major way being by bacterial/archaeal [sic] predation by protozoa (& bacterial feeding nematodes). It follows logically that if chemical fertilizers are used over an extended period (days? months? years?) that the microbial nutrient cycle will slow and/or cease.

The other side to this is that plants emit compounds from their roots which feed bacteria/archaea and fungi (of species conducive to their survival[?]) as an active participant in this microbial nutrient loop. Logically, if the plant is receiving direct feed ionic nutrients it is likely to slow and/or cease this process.

I compare this to a patient receiving intravenous feeding for a period of time and then needing to slowly adjust to real food again when the IV is discontinued.

The effects over a period of time (days? months? years?) will likely cause a die off of soil biota of a particular microbial consortia but may stimulate the growth of another microbial consortia (possibly/probably not as balanced and beneficial as the natural one), possibly causing disease.

I hypothesize another factor that may have effect is that when the plant is an active participant in the microbial nutrient cycle it 'decides' what nutrients it requires in time shifts unknown to us. If we are using chemical fertilizers quite likely much goes unused by the plant or is absorbed by the plant unnecessarily, perhaps promoting disease. The unused chemicals pass into the groundwater and streams or into the atmosphere. We've all heard the detriments around that and this is the pollution to which I refer."

Not that ^THAT^ clears up any confusion in my head over this, but I guess it kinda answers the question.

My take on that is that the beneficial microbes essentially starve to death over a period of time because they aren't able to break down the synthetic nutrients like they can they organically derived nutrients.

I think??

Was that a quote from "Teaming With Microbes"?

The plant and microbes feed each other. If you feed the plant ferts directly, the plant stops feeding the microbes. While the plant may grow, you'd better keep in mind that the microbes ALSO defend the plant from bad microbes and insects. No microbes, no protection.

C&T, there are millions of microbes in every breath you take, 24/7, 365. Every breath. Fungus, bacteria, archae, yeasts, etc. Getting these into your soil is inevitable. I like to add local microbes, since they're better adapted to my location than anything in a jar.

I was just looking in the book I read. He says specifically that the main Fox Farms Big Bloom is not only organic, but one of The Rev's favorite
bottled nutrients. He says the other 2, the Fox Farm Grow, and the Tiger Bloom is full of chelated salts and they directly kill much of the myco's
and other shit. I spend big ass money on Great White, and then I pour salts on it and I am just pissing right into the fan. I don't understand it,
but I believe him.
Now I have a good mix and need to find a good organic food to use with the Big Bloom. It's going to take me another week or 2 to get all my amendments
and mix my soil, then that takes a month.

Not knocking the organic growers, but this is funny shit.
[video=youtube;8Zqe4ZV9LDs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8Zqe4ZV9LDs[/video]

The fox farms bushmaster shit has all kind of mycos shit in it and probably some food stuffs too; is that to keep things going possibly to resist the salt stuff killing it all of thru starvation? Dunno, just appealing to the experts what I see on these lables.

it's like pro-biotics for your stomach-- except it's a container

i like organic shit in my stomach lots of yogurt(lacto) and kombuca tea which is also good pro-biotics for gut
living food

i try and feed my kidz the same wether their human or plants

here in the 8th dimension everything is organic --
that's what we call it wen we eat smoke and drink chemicals-- "organic"
nobody can tell the difference
everything tastes like chicken