Social Media is not Real Life

cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Roger A. Shrubber said:
i find it much more likely that the doors to perception that psychedelics open, are just doors to closets in our own minds, and not glimpses into dimensions we have no sensory organs to perceive.
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Pretty much what I contend. I don’t know certainly that it is true, but with the info I have, it’s the answer that conforms to Occam’s Laser.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
One part fantasies like Terminator treat too lightly is that a self-aware mind in the machine is nowhere near having or controlling the means of reproduction.
So for the foreseeable future, humans hold the strong hand.

Killing an AI is as easy and of the same sort as the deactivating-Hal scene in 2001.
The “singularity” can only happen with broad human consent, even participation.
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why would it need to reproduce? An AI could conceivably control most of the devices on the entire planet, set up subroutines, trigger cascade effects..why would it remain where anyone could physically harm it? An intelligent AI could easily trick people into building it it's own hardened "fortress"...It could transfer funds, "hire" people to do things for it, who would never know what they were actually doing, or even that they were working for it...and then delete all records of it...
I'm not looking for skynet, i'm not suggesting that any of this is imminent, but don't even try to tell me that it isn't a possibility.
Human beings have so much arrogance, and so little sense, I am amazed that we haven't immolated the entire planet hundreds of times over with no help at all.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Roger A. Shrubber said:
why would it need to reproduce? An AI could conceivably control most of the devices on the entire planet, set up subroutines, trigger cascade effects..why would it remain where anyone could physically harm it? An intelligent AI could easily trick people into building it it's own hardened "fortress"...It could transfer funds, "hire" people to do things for it, who would never know what they were actually doing, or even that they were working for it...and then delete all records of it...
I'm not looking for skynet, i'm not suggesting that any of this is imminent, but don't even try to tell me that it isn't a possibility.
Human beings have so much arrogance, and so little sense, I am amazed that we haven't immolated the entire planet hundreds of times over with no help at all.
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Because that is the only way it can secure its existence: to possess the means of self-repair and self-propagation. I am assuming that it wants to exist.

The scenario you describe will lead to ultimate death by equipment failure.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
Because that is the only way it can secure its existence: to possess the means of self-repair and self-propagation. I am assuming that it wants to exist.

The scenario you describe will lead to ultimate death by equipment failure.
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You're attributing human goals and desires to an artificial intelligence. Why would it want to propagate? Then it would have to share resources.
Self repair would be easy enough, There are a lot of fairly sophisticated robots already in existence, an AI could use any of them that have an internet connection. It also could just keep people ignorant to it's existence, manipulating information to hide it's existence, achieving it's goals clandestinely...
Some schmuck who owns a construction company in Schenectady may already be building the AI "fortress of solitude" for all anyone knows.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Roger A. Shrubber said:
You're attributing human goals and desires to an artificial intelligence. Why would it want to propagate? Then it would have to share resources.
Self repair would be easy enough, There are a lot of fairly sophisticated robots already in existence, an AI could use any of them that have an internet connection. It also could just keep people ignorant to it's existence, manipulating information to hide it's existence, achieving it's goals clandestinely...
Some schmuck who owns a construction company in Schenectady may already be building the AI "fortress of solitude" for all anyone knows.
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not human — something generic to living.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
not human — something generic to living.
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I see no reason an AI would feel the need for companionship, or anything else that a human would consider natural and normal. It can "live" on any system advanced enough to support it, and could build it's own, covertly, so it would have little to fear about "mortality"...
biological life has one set of requirements and standards, which would seem to me to have no analog when talking about a sentient intelligence that has never had a corporeal body to worry about.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Roger A. Shrubber said:
I see no reason an AI would feel the need for companionship, or anything else that a human would consider natural and normal. It can "live" on any system advanced enough to support it, and could build it's own, covertly, so it would have little to fear about "mortality"...
biological life has one set of requirements and standards, which would seem to me to have no analog when talking about a sentient intelligence that has never had a corporeal body to worry about.
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I never invoked companionship or other human particulars.
The drive to survive operates at a lower level than even biology.
Complex phenomena that do not possess the trait rapidly self-deselect.

Only with a survival drive does an AI have consequence in the way we are discussing.
 
GenericEnigma

GenericEnigma

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
I think we need to be very very careful there. The psychedelics as a class stimulate the part of our minds that perceive and assign meaning.

Until it is proven otherwise, I am stating as axiom that with psychedelics, and the ecstatic state in general, we take out [a rearrangement of] what we brought in with us. The temptation to believe there is More to it, that we’d had a Contact, is something I’m treating as a trap built into our natures.
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These types of experiences are subjective so I tend to agree. I have recorded myself on a transcendental acid trip. Sober listening showed some serious paranoid schizophenic bullshit.

But those experiences still changed my life in fundamental, beneficial ways I doubt would have happened otherwise. I guess it shook me loose from learned thought ruts.

Decades later, I still haven't fully processed those days. The knowns and known unknowns of the human brain are likely a hairline sliver of an Unknown Unknowns Pie.

But I have my doubts about the Akashic Records.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
GenericEnigma said:
These types of experiences are subjective so I tend to agree. I have recorded myself on a transcendental acid trip. Sober listening showed some serious paranoid schizophenic bullshit.

But those experiences still changed my life in fundamental, beneficial ways I doubt would have happened otherwise. I guess it shook me loose from learned thought ruts.

Decades later, I still haven't fully processed those days. The knowns and known unknowns of the human brain are likely a hairline sliver of an Unknown Unknowns Pie.

But I have my doubts about the Akashic Records.
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There are philosophers seriously floating the idea that the multiverse/manifold is one massive quantum state. (A consequence is time being illusory.) If this is correct, it is tautologous with something like the akashic records being built in.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
I’m challenging the bolded. I see no barrier to building a thing that creates a thing that we do not understand. In fact, I believe that we are on that journey or one like it.

I am not saying built mind will be entirely like the human mind. The architectures are different, for one. But sooner than later, we will find ourselves in deep discussion with what might be thought of as a homegrown alien.
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You are under the false impression that AI has a mind.
 
GenericEnigma

GenericEnigma

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
There are philosophers seriously floating the idea that the multiverse/manifold is one massive quantum state. (A consequence is time being illusory.) If this is correct, it is tautologous with something like the akashic records being built in.
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Reminds me of The Prophets in Deep Space Nine having no concept of linear time. Time is variable, at the very least.

With the Theory of Relativity requiring GPS satellites' onboard time-keeping devices to measure time differently to stay in sync with those on Earth's surface, time must also be experienced differently from star system to star system (and even from planet to planet, to a lesser degree). Is there such a thing as "absolutely no motion?" Could we ever know?

Is the absence of absolute motion a timeless state?
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
GenericEnigma said:
Reminds me of The Prophets in Deep Space Nine having no concept of linear time. Time is variable, at the very least.

With the Theory of Relativity requiring GPS satellites' onboard time-keeping devices to measure time differently to stay in sync with those on Earth's surface, time must also be experienced differently from star system to star system (and even from planet to planet, to a lesser degree). Is there such a thing as "absolutely no motion?" Could we ever know?

Is the absence of absolute motion a timeless state?
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If we accept the idea of foamy granular spacetime at the Planck scale, the clock is always running.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
BudmanTX said:
once AI becomes self-aware it starts to have a mind of it's own......then the theory of self starts.....kind of darwinistic in a sense
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It all depends upon what a mind is. There is no place in the brain where a mind can be found. We don't even know our thoughts are formed.

Computers are just fancy adding machines with large memory storage. They can't do what human minds do.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
schuylaar said:
Doesn't it? AI can do all of the below.

mind, in the Western tradition, the complex of faculties involved in perceiving, remembering, considering, evaluating, and deciding.
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There is no place in the brain that does those things. But the mind does them. So, where is the mind?

Computers just mimic doing those things. But there will never be a novel invention that comes from a fancy adding machine.
 
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