Soil question

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loco41

Well-Known Member
Gimiik said:
Hey yall back again :)

So I got my soil mixed up and added about 5gal of RO water and stirred it up nicely. The soil is pretty moist but not overly wet. My concern though is because I'm keeping my tote indoors, and my place constantly has the AC on at about 72 degrees that it won't be warm enough to kick start the microbes and cook the soil.

You think I should just leave it outside and keep adding water as it dries or leave it inside and perhaps insulate the container with blankets or something? It's only been a few days but the soil is still really cold to the touch.
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Congrats man, i hope nothing but good things to come for you.

I keep my worms and soil bins inside and my place is set at 73 right now. I think you will be plenty fine. I'm not sure what ideal temps would be though, but I'm sure room temp isn't ever too far out of a decent range if at all.
 
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Gimiik

Active Member
Hey Loco appreciate all the encouragement and advise!

I was reading that your compost will begin to generate its own heat as the microbial processes take place... how noticeable is this heat? Once it begins is it apparent that the magic is happening? I don't want to let the soil sit for two months while I veg the girls only to find out the hard way the amendments didn't get broken down ya know?
 
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loco41

Well-Known Member
To be honest, I never really paid much attention to the heat generated. It's definitely there, just nothing I paid too close attention to.

I like to sprinkle a little bit of this or that on top of my soil every so often just to give it a little something to break down. I would suggest trying a little uncooked oatmeal or neem if you prefer (i like neem/alfalfa for this compared to other dry amendments because it seems to bring quicker mycellium growth than others do in this way from my experience) sprinkled on top and you will see some white hairlike mycellium growth in a day or two probably. If not, no worries though and you can still kind of observe things on top of the soil and how it's all playing out.
 
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Gimiik

Active Member
Another question.

Does the size of my pots matter when using a "water-only" method? I'm reading that people recommend using 10gal+ pots.

I'm using bagseed, so I plan on starting with like 4 seeds in red solo cups, moving up to 1gal. Then hopefully I can tell the sex by this point because depending on how many females I get I was going to move up to 5gal or 7gal pots.
 
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loco41

Well-Known Member
Perfect sir, that's just good signs of life in the soil breaking down all the available food. Now just try to keep an eye on the moisture level and stir every it every once in a while and you should be on your way. How soon are you planning on using the mix?
 
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Gimiik

Active Member
I have some FFOF on hand that im going to be using for the red solo cup phase and prolly the up pot to 1gal. That's several weeks of letting the soil cook. Once it's time to transplant to the 5gal ima be using the soil mix.
 
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Gimiik

Active Member
I'm not entirely sure what my final flowering pot size is going to be. I'm using one feminized seed and have three other bag seeds germinating right now. It all boils down to how many females I get from the random seeds.
 
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Gimiik

Active Member
Question.

So I have all my soil cooking in my tote right now. Should I be adding my banana peels after I eat them? Would it be beneficial to sprinkle some clover seed and let that grow. Then when i mix the soil their roots get mixed up and decompose etc.

Worms! Should I add worms to the tote, to my pots?
 
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loco41

Well-Known Member
Not so sure on the banana peel addition to the cooking soil, but I would steer away from that as it may take a while for it to fully decompose and stabilize within the soil. Others may have different opinions though.

I think you would still benefit greatly from setting up your own worm bin. I never directly add worms to my soil bins or pots, but they are always present through the use of the castings. It can be as simple as drilling a few holes in a tote and using some buffered peat for bedding. Once it's set, it's pretty much self sustaining.. As always, just my two cents on things though.
 
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Gimiik

Active Member
Probably a good call about not adding stuff to the cooking soil. I don't want to add too many variables being that it's my first time trying an organic grow.

Ima have to read into worm bins more because I don't even know where to start haha. What do i use as the medium in which they live? etc
 
L

loco41

Well-Known Member
I would suggest you spending some time in the organic section of this forum. Tons of good info all over there including on vermicomposting. I built two more bins during my last grow and gave a quick little rundown with some pictures on building mine. Again, way more experienced and knowledgeable people over there on all these subjects though.

loco's organic grow

sorry if this is the wrong spot to be posting this, but really only visit the organic and led lighting sections, so figured I'd post it all up here. haven't been keeping notes on anything, so hopefully this will help me start being a bit more organized as well as get ideas and advice moving...
rollitup.org
 
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Gimiik

Active Member
Man I've been going down the Rabbit Hole learning all about organics / living organics. This stuff absolutely fascinating!! I discovered a thread that is 76 pages long, dating back to 2015...its just a treasure trove of valuable information! I've decided go to the route of Living Organics / No Till. I found a local worm supplier willing to sell my some Red Wigglers for cheap, I just need to build a home for them :) I plan on introducing a small amount into the pots. This way I have a homemade supply of vermicompost… and the little critters can till my pots.

In the meantime, I've been looking around for cheap quality compost. My cities local composting site offers two types of compost for cheap but I'm not sure which one is preferable. They have two types they describe as either Fine or Chunky. Any thoughts? Chunky seems to have more carbon materials for the worms/bacteria to break down but idk how well I can mix into the soil. The fine on the other hand will mix in nicely as a top dressing.

Fine:
1594857211549.png

Chunky:
1594857229004.png
 
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Gimiik

Active Member
Question about Humus Layer. I still don't fully understand what this is but from what I've gathered it's simply an organic layer of decomposing materials that helps with water retention and overall health of the soil system. How do I create this in my own no till pots?

When I started germinating my seeds I filled a couple of my 1gal pots with FFOF, sprinkled some clover seeds, then covered with more FFOF. My thinking was that if I got the clover started before I transplanted into the 1gal that the clover will have already pulled Nitrogen out of the air and stored it in the roots. I was hoping that my seeds would have sprouted by now but its been 5 days in the soil and 0/4 seeds have poked their heads out. Two of them had a tap root sticking out, the other two had cracked the shell and I could see the white tap root but it wasn't sticking out. I planted them anyway.

I'm to the point where my clover is going to be fully grown by the time I'm ready to transplant from the red solo cups (if my seeds ever sprout >.<). My plan is to chop the clover and cover with a layer of EWC. To bring things back to the humus layer, will chopping the clover and covering with EWC, allow the bacteria/fungi to break it down and aid in the creation of this layer? I will eventually transplant from the 1gal to the final 10gal notill pots. I won't be losing any material when I transplant from 1gal--> 10gal so wouldn't this add to the notill pots' humus layer?

I apologize is this seems disorganized...I often struggle putting my thoughts into typed format. :)
 
L

loco41

Well-Known Member
Gimiik said:
Question about Humus Layer. I still don't fully understand what this is but from what I've gathered it's simply an organic layer of decomposing materials that helps with water retention and overall health of the soil system. How do I create this in my own no till pots?

When I started germinating my seeds I filled a couple of my 1gal pots with FFOF, sprinkled some clover seeds, then covered with more FFOF. My thinking was that if I got the clover started before I transplanted into the 1gal that the clover will have already pulled Nitrogen out of the air and stored it in the roots. I was hoping that my seeds would have sprouted by now but its been 5 days in the soil and 0/4 seeds have poked their heads out. Two of them had a tap root sticking out, the other two had cracked the shell and I could see the white tap root but it wasn't sticking out. I planted them anyway.

I'm to the point where my clover is going to be fully grown by the time I'm ready to transplant from the red solo cups (if my seeds ever sprout >.<). My plan is to chop the clover and cover with a layer of EWC. To bring things back to the humus layer, will chopping the clover and covering with EWC, allow the bacteria/fungi to break it down and aid in the creation of this layer? I will eventually transplant from the 1gal to the final 10gal notill pots. I won't be losing any material when I transplant from 1gal--> 10gal so wouldn't this add to the notill pots' humus layer?

I apologize is this seems disorganized...I often struggle putting my thoughts into typed format. :)
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I'm sure there is technically a difference between the two, but I always just read humus as meaning the same thing as compost/ewc. Decomposed organic material essentially. With a quality well rounded humus source will come plenty of microbial life to manage things.

I have never done a no-till before, would love to but just never the right setting to do it for me. That said, I think the idea of no-till is setting up an environment for the micro herd to endlessly provide you with a humus layer up top. By chopping and dropping that clover on top, you are well on your way to creating that system. I'm not sure of the whole process, whether it needs to be covered with ewc after the chop, but I always just dropped some clover I chopped on top of the soil. Eventually it all gets broken down while serving as a mulch up top.

Also, with top dressings of ewc/whatever else, you are adding the humus up top. However you want to look at it though, it's not something to worry about in my opinion.
 
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Gimiik

Active Member
Thanks for the continual responses Loco I truly appreciate it. I'm real disappointed in my seeds though!! I checked on them tonight and I think I'm SOL. The tap roots of the seeds are like a brownish color and haven't rooted and it's been 5 days. I have horrible germination rates and I don't know why.

I soak the seeds in R/O water for 24 hours and if they haven't sank to the bottom by then I give them a little tap and they sink right down. Once the hull cracks and the tap root begins to show I poke a small hole using the tip of a pen and plant with the tap root pointing down and lightly cover with soil. So far 0/4. I'm trying the paper towel method with another 3 seeds rn.
 
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Gimiik

Active Member
Hey guys, question for you.

So I went with Coot's style mix:
Base Soil: I mixed up enough for 21 gallons. (~3cuft)
  • 1/3 Sphagnum Peat Moss (7gal)
  • 1/3 EWC (compost) (7gal)
  • 1/3 Perlite (Aeration) (7gal)
I then amended the base soil with the following dry amendments: 1/2 cup per cubic foot (1cuft = 7.5 gal)
  • Fish Meal (9-4-0)
  • Crab Shell Meal (4-3-0)
  • Kelp Meal (1-0-2)
  • Neem Seed Meal (6-1-2) + Pest Control
  • Oyster Shell Flour (Calcium)
  • Gypsum (Calcium / Sulfur)
  • Glacial Rock Dust (Trace Minerals)

I transplanted from 1gal pots filled with FFOF --> 5gal fabric pots with my soil mix. It is now time to water for the 1st time since transplanting them. However, the soil is hard as a rock!!! I literally cannot poke my finger through the surface. I was using Emilya's watering technique where you let it pool on the surface twice... Well the water literally ran straight through the soil and pooled in the drip tray. Literally none of it pooled. It slowly got absorbed up through the bottom like ghetto flood table but I'm concerned about the soil quality/texture.

Is the hardening because I used so much EWC? How do I remedy this problem? I can add gypsum but IDK the application rate and have not performed a soil test.

Any and all help appreciated!
 
L

loco41

Well-Known Member
Gimiik said:
Hey guys, question for you.

So I went with Coot's style mix:
Base Soil: I mixed up enough for 21 gallons. (~3cuft)
  • 1/3 Sphagnum Peat Moss (7gal)
  • 1/3 EWC (compost) (7gal)
  • 1/3 Perlite (Aeration) (7gal)
I then amended the base soil with the following dry amendments: 1/2 cup per cubic foot (1cuft = 7.5 gal)
  • Fish Meal (9-4-0)
  • Crab Shell Meal (4-3-0)
  • Kelp Meal (1-0-2)
  • Neem Seed Meal (6-1-2) + Pest Control
  • Oyster Shell Flour (Calcium)
  • Gypsum (Calcium / Sulfur)
  • Glacial Rock Dust (Trace Minerals)

I transplanted from 1gal pots filled with FFOF --> 5gal fabric pots with my soil mix. It is now time to water for the 1st time since transplanting them. However, the soil is hard as a rock!!! I literally cannot poke my finger through the surface. I was using Emilya's watering technique where you let it pool on the surface twice... Well the water literally ran straight through the soil and pooled in the drip tray. Literally none of it pooled. It slowly got absorbed up through the bottom like ghetto flood table but I'm concerned about the soil quality/texture.

Is the hardening because I used so much EWC? How do I remedy this problem? I can add gypsum but IDK the application rate and have not performed a soil test.

Any and all help appreciated!
Click to expand...
It sounds like the peat just went hydrophobic on you. Peat is hydrophobic when it dries out, so it will repel the water down "channels" instead of absorbing the water. I face this issue way more than I would like to admit due to poor watering routines, but as long as you stay diligent with proper watering techniques I'm sure your mix is fine as is. I always use a little bit of yucca extract in the water when I run into this problem and water really slowly and in intervals to help give the peat time to become re-hydrated all the way through. Also, letting the plant absorb that water from the trays will help to get things re-hydrated too from the bottom up. Do you have mulch on top of your soil? If not, this will help the top layers of the soil from fully drying out a bit more so as well.

No expert here, but my take on dealing with this issue at hand. Hope it all works out for you though and things get back on track.

edit: Not sure what you are using/how you water, but I bought a 2 gallon chapin sprayer that I use and it has helped a lot with how I water. I take the "sprayer nozzle" off and it comes out as a constant stream, but slower and more precise so I know I am hitting the surface of the soil a lot more evenly over just dumping water on top.
 
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Gimiik

Active Member
What you were saying about the Peat Moss going hydrophobic on me makes perfect sense. How do I combat this? Increase the frequency in which im watering so the peat moss doesn't dry out as much?

I'm using a layer of straw to help maintain the moisture in the top soil, it seems to be working well.
 
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