Some advice on pk13/14 please.

tyke1973

tyke1973

Well-Known Member
I could do with a Bit of Advice Anyone,The Bloody Skunk that i have going under the Mars Cob,are loving that light so are the FLC from Ghsc.But i'm wondering about the Big Bud ,at the Minute there on Canna a/b in Coco 60/40 .There on 1.3 ec i won't be having the ec any higher than that,or would you have it higher i normally flower normal photoperiod plants at 1.4 ec,I noticed that they had started to flower about 3/4 days ago so was going to water with Nutes with big bud in after around 7 days after first seeing flowers.Auto's indoors are new to me ,i wont be doing them again either to be honest the FLC,Started at the same time would produce a nice yield,if i was to set those flowering now on less light,I could have done those on 12/12 ,And Personally think i would have got far better end weight.Got me thinking what was i thinking why did i just not Flower 2/4 Small plants in the Tent on 12/12 off ,Then i Remembered that nice looking Purple dank,eye candy for sure.And its selling for stupid money Purple strains atm locally.But wish i had done something like Hurkle or Purple Pine Cone.
 
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NoviceKing

NoviceKing

Active Member
tyke1973 said:
Just Take all the Bottom growth off,that will produce very little early,I never take it off too early,Normally just before Flowering.And i just leave the Ends on that have pretty close nodes that will produce ok nugs,Those little Nugs all ways end up been dense,pretty solid.This is where i'm at atm Minute with Mine,I had a big Cheese Strain in this room that took most of the room up,so i'm happy to say they did not get too much light,There is one that got very little room,and it Ended up been my Favorite out of the 3 ,would have been a great Commercial strain,will be ready at the end of a full 8 week.The other two may run into 9/10. These have started to fade But this is the one of the Pheno now.View attachment 4228274
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See ive got loads of shit underneath its like popcorn central and loads of little shoots under the canopy that arnt getting a lot of light and arnt looking like theyre going to form i to much... so when would the best time be to cut them off im already 3w 2d into flowering??
 
tyke1973

tyke1973

Well-Known Member
I take them of asap start flowering it will produce very little ,and what it does will be a waste of time.You want nice growth on those tops,I hate taking healthy leafs of a plant above say a scrog table.The only leaves i take of are ones that get no light or are dead
 
Flowki

Flowki

Well-Known Member
With coco, I use a powder base+c nitrate/epsom, 30ppm P. On flip I use 0.05g/L of powder p-k until the final two weeks, it raises the P to around 50ppm If I recall (around 850 total ppm, or just over 1.0 ec I guess). I use a 2 inch layer of hay on top, but also put an inch layer of coco on top of the hay, it cuts out gnats since the inch layer of top coco dries fast. I also use an organic top dress product every 2 to 3 weeks, from mid veg or sooner. This adds microbes and many other organic nutrients. The microbes (in my theory) can take hold in the hay and then get to work on providing optimal levels of nutrients, rather than me trying to trial and error it. I only add the 0.05g/l of pk in-case my theory is wrong, a fail safe I guess. Never any burns or deficiency and finally no gnats or need for applicable products. The beauty of it for me being manual feeder, is only having to water every other day while the quality is amazing and still hitting the cliché 1gw in open room. With a lower over all ppm run off can be skipped every third feed, saving a little on nutes and fill ups. Maybe it could be missed every other but not tried that as of yet.
 
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Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Flowki said:
Np at all, lost count how many times I said that to dr.who ^^.
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:hug: I hear you each time Flowki....really I do..

I can say that the way you apply....Your not hitting those P levels I preach about not getting to either....... You've zeroed in on a way to use an MPK product in a sane and safe manor for cannabis..... Your not really "boosting" with it are you? Most/many are not growing on that knowledge level to do that...... While my trials of late, with synthetic's, expanded some. I still do the bulk in my own W/O soil builds....
I still refrain from supporting "high # P/K boosters" use in synthetic growing....... You're best off finding a set of products, when used properly, that do not need any "boosting"....

I still don't care for Coco though.....My choice though..eh?
 
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Flowki

Flowki

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
:hug: I hear you each time Flowki....really I do..

I can say that the way you apply....Your not hitting those P levels I preach about not getting to either....... You've zeroed in on a way to use an MPK product in a sane and safe manor for cannabis..... Your not really "boosting" with it are you? Most/many are not growing on that knowledge level to do that...... While my trials of late, with synthetic's, expanded some. I still do the bulk in my own W/O soil builds....
I still refrain from supporting "high # P/K boosters" use in synthetic growing....... You're best off finding a set of products, when used properly, do not need any "boosting"....

I still don't care for Coco though.....My choice though..eh?
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Yeah it was initially used as a boost at 0.20g/L before the use of part organics, then with organics I began lowering to test. I didn't see any ill effect down to 0.05 but I don't have the guts to remove it. I can't check if the applicable microbes are there and will remain there consistently, so 0.05 removes some of the blind faith.

I like coco as I kinda have the elements of all worlds. I use individual gravity fed containers on halo style drips, as they are individual, pressure differences don't exist. The reservoirs only supply 1 feed worth so are almost 0 risk of flooding. The halo drippers water far slower than I can be bothered to, so you get a far better saturation>yield for less effort. What would take up to an hour to do manually they will do for 5 min worth of filling up.

Coco allows more water volume>yield and I like it's flexibility/ease of use (doing full organic successfully takes a lot of skill I don't have). The combination of hay+correct pot size allows every other day feeding with no wilting. Easier labour wise and takes care of gnats cost free. Manually fed every day a few times and the increase in labour really isn't worth the result to me, truthfully I seen little difference at all, aside from complete elimination of gnats. I guess the pot size/temps has to be correct to allow every other day with no wilting. However air pots don't play nice with gnats, probably why every day feeding was a nightmare. If you used a normal pot maybe you'd get away with every day > no gnats but by all accounts you'd have a lesser root system than using air pots. So it's almost like two ways to skin a cat. Although feeding less days is the better fur for me ^^.

Then lastly the part organic side so that micro'bes would manage' the hard work and increase on yield and quality, or so the theory goes. While on this, do you think kelp foliar will be a worthy addition?. I feel like I still have room to add a thing like that.

I'll be growing fully organic food outdoor for next summer. But I would not try in a pot for mj until at-least then. Eventually it would be nice to be doing it.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Flowki said:
Yeah it was initially used as a boost at 0.20g/L before the use of part organics, then with organics I began lowering to test. I didn't see any ill effect down to 0.05 but I don't have the guts to remove it. I can't check if the applicable microbes are there and will remain there consistently, so 0.05 removes some of the blind faith.

I like coco as I kinda have the elements of all worlds. I use individual gravity fed containers on halo style drips, as they are individual, pressure differences don't exist. The reservoirs only supply 1 feed worth so are almost 0 risk of flooding. The halo drippers water far slower than I can be bothered to, so you get a far better saturation>yield for less effort. What would take up to an hour to do manually they will do for 5 min worth of filling up.

Coco allows more water volume>yield and I like it's flexibility/ease of use (doing full organic successfully takes a lot of skill I don't have). The combination of hay+correct pot size allows every other day feeding with no wilting. Easier labour wise and takes care of gnats cost free. Manually fed every day a few times and the increase in labour really isn't worth the result to me, truthfully I seen little difference at all, aside from complete elimination of gnats. I guess the pot size/temps has to be correct to allow every other day with no wilting. However air pots don't play nice with gnats, probably why every day feeding was a nightmare. If you used a normal pot maybe you'd get away with every day > no gnats but by all accounts you'd have a lesser root system than using air pots. So it's almost like two ways to skin a cat. Although feeding less days is the better fur for me ^^.

Then lastly the part organic side so that micro'bes would manage' the hard work and increase on yield and quality, or so the theory goes. While on this, do you think kelp foliar will be a worthy addition?. I feel like I still have room to add a thing like that.

I'll be growing fully organic food outdoor for next summer. But I would not try in a pot for mj until at-least then. Eventually it would be nice to be doing it.
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I'm not in that boat on lesser root mass in a normal vs fabric pot....I feel that it's the reverse...The difference is that in a "real" pot...The root mass spreads out over the whole available media volume. It doesn't get so dense.. Way to much unused space in a fabric pot. Way too much root density in the core of the fabric pot. With soil use, they get that "umbrella effect". They get so dense that when I tested the first fabric pots. I found even heavy watering would not get the "core" of the root mass damp....To me, that speaks of ineffective nutrient uptake vs root mass in the pot......If it don't get wet...Those roots don't feed....
Let them roots spread out.

Mow my wife put a Reaper pepper plant in a 10 gallon one I had sitting around.....I feed my super hots with G&H 3 part....This plant has the most wonderful shape. 3 main branches, spread like a 3 pointed star, around 4.5 ft tall....She had to have it as a house plant it was so nice looking. Into the house she went, taking up space under a 600 on a light mover (gotta get some other high light plants a fair shake). Over time, as she rooted that pot....the root ball did the big center mass thing and she can be a challenge to water properly now....Nice thing is she has been easy to keep at her size and shape.......Shit ton of peppers she throws too.

Want some super hot pepper mash? Little goes a long way in making wings of death......Mix it with regular Buffalo and keep some milk handy (if your not a chiliphile)..

Anyway, there's my opinion part of the whole thing.....quite great the rest of it! You got your process dialed in...
Umm, that's real great,,,not "Trump Great"... So I really mean it...
 
Flowki

Flowki

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
I'm not in that boat on lesser root mass in a normal vs fabric pot....I feel that it's the reverse...The difference is that in a "real" pot...The root mass spreads out over the whole available media volume. It doesn't get so dense.. Way to much unused space in a fabric pot. Way too much root density in the core of the fabric pot. With soil use, they get that "umbrella effect". They get so dense that when I tested the first fabric pots. I found even heavy watering would not get the "core" of the root mass damp....To me, that speaks of ineffective nutrient uptake vs root mass in the pot......If it don't get wet...Those roots don't feed....
Let them roots spread out.

Mow my wife put a Reaper pepper plant in a 10 gallon one I had sitting around.....I feed my super hots with G&H 3 part....This plant has the most wonderful shape. 3 main branches, spread like a 3 pointed star, around 4.5 ft tall....She had to have it as a house plant it was so nice looking. Into the house she went, taking up space under a 600 on a light mover (gotta get some other high light plants a fair shake). Over time, as she rooted that pot....the root ball did the big center mass thing and she can be a challenge to water properly now....Nice thing is she has been easy to keep at her size and shape.......Shit ton of peppers she throws too.

Want some super hot pepper mash? Little goes a long way in making wings of death......Mix it with regular Buffalo and keep some milk handy (if your not a chiliphile)..

Anyway, there's my opinion part of the whole thing.....quite great the rest of it! You got your process dialed in...
Umm, that's real great,,,not "Trump Great"... So I really mean it...
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I don't think air pots make the extreme root knitting like fab pots. They seem like the happy medium between old school and fabric. The only issue is, you really need to feed very slow with air pots to stop ''fake run off'' or under saturation. That's where the slow gravity dripper comes into play. I do admit it's easier to feed with normal pots and I can't ''guarantee'' air pots are better. But, by every coco root comparison I've personally seen air pots are better, for what that's worth.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Flowki said:
I don't think air pots make the extreme root knitting like fab pots. They seem like the happy medium between old school and fabric. The only issue is, you really need to feed very slow with air pots to stop ''fake run off'' or under saturation. That's where the slow gravity dripper comes into play. I do admit it's easier to feed with normal pots and I can't ''guarantee'' air pots are better. But, by every coco root comparison I've personally seen air pots are better, for what that's worth.
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AH, I "see"now! :oops:

No, your correct to a much better point...:hug:

The plastic "air pots' are pretty nice.. Still, I just old school it - Water everyday, a metered amount, that will carry me to the next day at lights on...More O2 to the roots! I'm good to go...:mrgreen:
 
Flowki

Flowki

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
AH, I "see"now! :oops:

No, your correct to a much better point...:hug:

The plastic "air pots' are pretty nice.. Still, I just old school it - Water everyday, a metered amount, that will carry me to the next day at lights on...More O2 to the roots! I'm good to go...:mrgreen:
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Yeah but that is for mostly synthetic. From what I've seen with gnats, the many holes in air pots could attract and enable all sorts of pests in pure or dominant organic, maybe using a traditional pot is a wise choice for that.

Btw, I asked earlier about the possible use of kelp foliar, mostly for the natural pgr effects I read of. However, on digging deeper, worm casting top dress or brew are also said to give all the same effects on top of npk and ofc microbes. Would you agree casting is the way to go and forget about kelp?. I am already using a beetle ''casting'' dressing, but I'd rather start using worm castings as I could get that for free and the microbes are more certain to be living. I hate product microbes, with not having a means to check I just have to assume they are in there.
 
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Texas2326

Texas2326

Active Member
Dr. Who said:
Hey Luke, how's things?

Anyway, let me drop a bit of wisdom on you "booster" guys a bit here.....Ok?

Elevating P after the stretch has some good effects on cannabis production but, Most PK boosters, boost too much! While they do appear to work and with some nutrient lines, they are formulated for that lines schedule...NOT for use with other nutrient lines!
Effective P boosting IS right at the light flip but, in smaller amounts then these high P/K boosters.... I have come to really like a 4-6-6 NPK ratio as my base ratio for N hungry strains in bloom. Reduce the N by 25% for normal N feeders and about another 12.5% for strains that don't like having too much N at all. This is supplemented with some Mg sulfate and a 6% K sulfate (started right before the flip) This is boosting the K in that ratio to about 10-12%......These supplements are stopped at week 6-7 and all my runs go out to around 10 weeks or more.....Why I stop these then follows in a bit.

Last cpl of weeks the feeding is halved and the last it's simply water.....There is enough nutrient left in my soil to carry them out from here. I do not reduce or stop nutrient to attempt to effect any flavor or smoking "quality"..... Simply to reduce nutrient/run costs.

Oh you can make them sort of work but, let me give you some insight into the stuff.

The P is doing more for making the bloom period a shorter run time (per most scheduled nutrient lines) BUT, your paying a high price for that by NOT getting a quality, complete or proper finish! It is not doing as much for increasing bud size or any other claim by the nutrient maker over making your plant yellow out and finish too soon......
Yes, you can "stall" that by increasing the N but, your only hurting the quality of the finish again, by doing that....high N reduces THC concentrations in the finished product.

K....Ok, here is where you maybe getting a boost to the bud size and density.....That is......You MUST stop it's use at least 2 weeks before you harvest! K and Mg use in late bloom will also reduce THC production and final THC concentrations in the material! I find it as "odd" that some companies push "booster" products that are FOR those last few weeks! They don't use their bloom science from cannabis testing....This is for blooming flowers, NOT for cannabis production...

For the most part. Nutrient makers are selling you a bill of goods on the use of boosters or even worse, MPK or "shooting powders".

Why aren't these actual facts given or written about? Hell, I don't know.....Book writers want to sell books. If they wrote one thing and some years later they find out they were wrong....They're NOT going to admit it and tell you.....They want you to buy the damn book still...MONEY is king!

Same for nutrient makers. These guys are the WORST! They sell you a load of BULL SHIT and promise you the world! actual facts are totally different things!

If AN says something - LAUGH
If High Times writes it - LAUGH

Now temper your use with the knowledge I gave you and increase your final quality to closer to actual potentials......I grow for the "potentials" of the pheno of the strain I'm running..


Before someone cries about Hese or Canna.......I have to admit, they do schedule their PK "booster" use to pretty good effect. I run longer then they say to. I get better quality results that way....Their lines tend to finish a bit quicker then I like.....The high PK when I ran them, was stopped a week before they said too...
Like I said, they're lines work pretty good if you follow their time line....Yet you'll still have trouble with some strains that need more or less of some things...

Peace
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Dr.who, can I ask your opinion on adjusting CANNA’s recommended dosage Flores a and b in order to raise the p and k. Flores has quite a bit of N and when I take into account the N in magcal and budlink it all adds up to a load of Nitrogen. So I was thinking of giving Flores A at a ratio of 1 to 1.5 ratio of Flores B. Any advice on how to control the extra amount of nitrogen. Thanks
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Texas2326 said:
Dr.who, can I ask your opinion on adjusting CANNA’s recommended dosage Flores a and b in order to raise the p and k. Flores has quite a bit of N and when I take into account the N in magcal and budlink it all adds up to a load of Nitrogen. So I was thinking of giving Flores A at a ratio of 1 to 1.5 ratio of Flores B. Any advice on how to control the extra amount of nitrogen. Thanks
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This can be done but it's basically a way to cover too much P!
Not the best idea in the long run...

If you feel the need to try.... Here's something I attempt to be as close to as possible...

In bloom, I start out with an N of 4, P of 6 and K of 6.
I supplement K as below. So it's getting 4-6-8.7
I don't really "boost" P&K. I do use a K sulfate supplement. Due to the actual available K from the sulfate compound... I'm getting about 45% of the K listed, so my solution of 6% K sulfate is actually only delivering about 2.7% increase in K

So, if you can hover around those values.....You'll be doing well.

In some strains (very much so for cookies related strains, and some others) I use half the N (and still watch for high N signs)
I also supplement a Mg sulfate mix for Mg hungry strains and use it across the board, for the good things the S brings to the table.

ALL supplementing is stopped at the beginning of the bulking phase. To call out an actual week.....say week 7... I run long (compared to any breeder seed report.) You must get at least 2 weeks of no increased K. K will inhibit THC production, as does high N.

I also drop my N about halfway through the bulk by 50%. This helps for a smooth ripening. Some strains a bit less, like 33%

These supplement formula's are here in the "Do it yourself" section.

I've done a multitude of different lines, and each has their own formula's. Only a few are good at their charting..... You see the thing is that different source or better yet, different compounds or forms of them are used at differing rates or better at differing times for the plants growth cycle.

Example: Some forms of N are better for seedlings to young plants. Some are utilized by the plant better or easier. Some, can evaporate from the soil or media at rates as high as over 30%...

AN, lies through their teeth on how their formulations are so scientific and are the best... Sourcing compounds is very important.....
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
tyke1973 said:
Had a feeling ya would have been growing some fire bro ,sound pukka those
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Was it you, that wanted pics of the stupid expensive "Candy" strain?

Like I said the Candy was gifted, beans, straight run....Time for some fire pics

Here you go

20190131_063245.jpg 20190131_063236.jpg 20190131_063256.jpg 20190131_063319.jpg

Can't reach the mains....
First run
Just like the FR of GG#4.... These got the N hot soil.

They will be frostier and better with the next dial in choice...Also going to run some in synthetic to compare...

Peace
 
tyke1973

tyke1973

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
Was it you, that wanted pics of the stupid expensive "Candy" strain?

Like I said the Candy was gifted, beans, straight run....Time for some fire pics

Here you go

View attachment 4273972 View attachment 4273968 View attachment 4273974 View attachment 4273975

Can't reach the mains....
First run
Just like the FR of GG#4.... These got the N hot soil.

They will be frostier and better with the next dial in choice...Also going to run some in synthetic to compare...

Peace
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Looks Stunning pal,Looks a lot like Strawberry Glue that I did a while back
 
Texas2326

Texas2326

Active Member
Dr. Who said:
This can be done but it's basically a way to cover too much P!
Not the best idea in the long run...

If you feel the need to try.... Here's something I attempt to be as close to as possible...

In bloom, I start out with an N of 4, P of 6 and K of 6.
I supplement K as below. So it's getting 4-6-8.7
I don't really "boost" P&K. I do use a K sulfate supplement. Due to the actual available K from the sulfate compound... I'm getting about 45% of the K listed, so my solution of 6% K sulfate is actually only delivering about 2.7% increase in K

So, if you can hover around those values.....You'll be doing well.

In some strains (very much so for cookies related strains, and some others) I use half the N (and still watch for high N signs)
I also supplement a Mg sulfate mix for Mg hungry strains and use it across the board, for the good things the S brings to the table.

ALL supplementing is stopped at the beginning of the bulking phase. To call out an actual week.....say week 7... I run long (compared to any breeder seed report.) You must get at least 2 weeks of no increased K. K will inhibit THC production, as does high N.

I also drop my N about halfway through the bulk by 50%. This helps for a smooth ripening. Some strains a bit less, like 33%

These supplement formula's are here in the "Do it yourself" section.

I've done a multitude of different lines, and each has their own formula's. Only a few are good at their charting..... You see the thing is that different source or better yet, different compounds or forms of them are used at differing rates or better at differing times for the plants growth cycle.

Example: Some forms of N are better for seedlings to young plants. Some are utilized by the plant better or easier. Some, can evaporate from the soil or media at rates as high as over 30%...

AN, lies through their teeth on how their formulations are so scientific and are the best... Sourcing compounds is very important.....
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Wow, great stuff. Thank you. I knew that N would inhibit thc production but had no clue about the K doing the same thing. So I’ll run 4-6-8 from week 3 to week 5 then taper down the K to week 7 then drop everything, and begin flushing. I’m running all CANNA on a cheese that I like to take to 10 weeks. Thanks again.
 
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