Some help please, with transitioning to organics

yeatster · Apr 6, 2017

I have been using AN since I started growing last year...I'm over it.

I've known from the start, Ive wanted to go organic, making a super soil. I want to start with a premix, to get my feet wet.

I'm thinking of, water only kis soil, with coco coir, Promix (currently using) and Perlite.

I grow autofliwers, specifically. Another thing I plan on changing in the future. Although autos will always have a place in my garden, I want the best.

Any advice with this new adventure would be gr8ly appreciated.

Thanks, yeatster

calliandra · Apr 7, 2017

hey hi, for water only you need compost in there.

To be successful at organics, you need to have some understanding of what's what

So I can only recommend Rasta Roy's thread, Organic Growing: an introductory guide (https://www.rollitup.org/t/organic-growing-an-introductory-guide.921380/) - it's a great starting point

Have fun!

chemphlegm · Apr 7, 2017

successfully growing for years this way, after my chemical romance with bottled nutrients.
Pro mix, five gallon bucket
Organicare organic composted dry fert crumbles
follow directions on bag, or double it, or half it even, your choice
add fresh water when bucket is light.
while weaning yourself from the bottle, add tea made from Botanicare pro line,
only to find it not necessary once the addiction is managed.
I spend more money on promix than I do fertilizer!!
I add some to fish powder in veg for a nice fast veg, and sometimes I foliar feed(botanicare tea) in veg too.

its a real no brainer, works every time, just awesome. My flowers finish full hard and sticky typically within the
breeder specs. I use spent soils outdoors, and fresh each time indoors.

try it in one bucket first, ferts are available amazon and grow stores, little bags even.

chemphlegm · Apr 7, 2017

the expensive an line was hard to beat here, for convenience, results too, compared to other nipples but learn to relax with pro mix
, dont over think it, dont tinker, and first harvest may convince a die hard top hydro nute user, did me.

yeatster · Apr 7, 2017

calliandra said:
hey hi, for water only you need compost in there.

To be successful at organics, you need to have some understanding of what's what
So I can only recommend Rasta Roy's thread, Organic Growing: an introductory guide (https://www.rollitup.org/t/organic-growing-an-introductory-guide.921380/) - it's a great starting point
Have fun!

Thanks a lot @calliandra
I'm going to try and source some local compost. I have a hard time trusting sources to be what they claim. Hopefully, I can find something.
I have subbed to Rasta Roys thread. I read a couple pages but, like many threads, it gets bogged down with jibber jabber. I will skim through later.

chemphlegm said:
successfully growing for years this way, after my chemical romance with bottled nutrients.
Pro mix, five gallon bucket
Organicare organic composted dry fert crumbles
follow directions on bag, or double it, or half it even, your choice
add fresh water when bucket is light.
while weaning yourself from the bottle, add tea made from Botanicare pro line,
only to find it not necessary once the addiction is managed.
I spend more money on promix than I do fertilizer!!
I add some to fish powder in veg for a nice fast veg, and sometimes I foliar feed(botanicare tea) in veg too.

its a real no brainer, works every time, just awesome. My flowers finish full hard and sticky typically within the
breeder specs. I use spent soils outdoors, and fresh each time indoors.

try it in one bucket first, ferts are available amazon and grow stores, little bags even.

Thank you @chemphlegm I will look into those products. I really appreciate it.

chemphlegm said:
the expensive an line was hard to beat here, for convenience, results too, compared to other nipples but learn to relax with pro mix
, dont over think it, dont tinker, and first harvest may convince a die hard top hydro nute user, did me.

I do have quite a bit of AN left so, I don't expect to go cold turkey. My yields are great. I do however, get Cal. def. with certain strains, regularly and GO CalMg doesn't help much. Hopefully, I'll see a difference there.
Again, thank you

prostheticninja · Apr 7, 2017

yeatster said:
I want to start with a premix, to get my feet wet.

Like a premixed soil? I have tried Kind Soil, and it was ok. Glad I didn't pay for it though. Just adding inaccurate amounts of amendments and compost has gotten me better plants than what I got with Kind. I think the problem is that it doesn't stay at ideal conditions during travel and packaging so the microherd, and the subsequent quality of the soil, falls.

Not saying I wouldn't recommend it. If you aren't looking to sit during a cook time, or cant wait, its an ok option.

yeatster · Apr 7, 2017

prostheticninja said:
Like a premixed soil? I have tried Kind Soil, and it was ok. Glad I didn't pay for it though. Just adding inaccurate amounts of amendments and compost has gotten me better plants than what I got with Kind. I think the problem is that it doesn't stay at ideal conditions during travel and packaging so the microherd, and the subsequent quality of the soil, falls.

Not saying I wouldn't recommend it. If you aren't looking to sit during a cook time, or cant wait, its an ok option.

Thanks for the reply @prostheticninja I've seen some problems with Kind, so I'm not surprised. I was actually thinking Kis

Can you, or anyone else, confirm this to be good?

yeatster · Apr 7, 2017

I do plan on doing it right, in the near future. I am looking for a quick route now, as I want to grow asap for my mother, who is suffering. Thanks all.

prostheticninja · Apr 7, 2017

Never used anything by KIS, but have heard good things about them!

greasemonkeymann · Apr 7, 2017

prostheticninja said:
Like a premixed soil? I have tried Kind Soil, and it was ok. Glad I didn't pay for it though. Just adding inaccurate amounts of amendments and compost has gotten me better plants than what I got with Kind. I think the problem is that it doesn't stay at ideal conditions during travel and packaging so the microherd, and the subsequent quality of the soil, falls.

Not saying I wouldn't recommend it. If you aren't looking to sit during a cook time, or cant wait, its an ok option.

yea.. kindsoil isn't a good concept, it was based too much on supersoil..
we sorta ran Phil outta here, he was tryin to plug his stuff too much, and got butthurt when he was confronted with factual inquiries on his technique and product..
the problem was similar to supersoil, too much soluble crap, and layering soil is asinine..

prostheticninja · Apr 7, 2017

greasemonkeymann said:
yea.. kindsoil isn't a good concept, it was based too much on supersoil..
we sorta ran Phil outta here, he was tryin to plug his stuff too much, and got butthurt when he was confronted with factual inquiries on his technique and product..
the problem was similar to supersoil, too much soluble crap, and layering soil is asinine..

Seen you guys give him some guff when I was researching it lol. I got a couple bags in a trade, so it was no loss of mine to try it out. I agree about the layering as well, fucking stupid.

Unless you have cubic feet of dirt, your plant is going to grow into that layer in like two days. I put a layer of higher P and K soil in the bottom of my pots when I transplant for flower, and they are usually showing burnt tips by a week into flower. Unless you have those inches on inches of dirt, those roots just get down there too quick. Now I am just trying to fill the whole pot with soil that's not as high in P and K as the layer I used to put on the bottom. I think this method is superior.

greasemonkeymann · Apr 7, 2017

prostheticninja said:
Seen you guys give him some guff when I was researching it lol. I got a couple bags in a trade, so it was no loss of mine to try it out. I agree about the layering as well, fucking stupid.

Unless you have cubic feet of dirt, your plant is going to grow into that layer in like two days. I put a layer of higher P and K soil in the bottom of my pots when I transplant for flower, and they are usually showing burnt tips by a week into flower. Unless you have those inches on inches of dirt, those roots just get down there too quick. Now I am just trying to fill the whole pot with soil that's not as high in P and K as the layer I used to put on the bottom. I think this method is superior.

exactly
not to mention having soluble nutrients isn't ideal, they don't "stay" where you want them, and they "go" wherever the water does, which is out the drainage..
they also jack up the acidity when they are dissolved, and when they dry, they leave pockets of undissolved nutrients
roots don't like any of that.
honestly when it comes to phosphorus less is better, that's probably THE most often made mistake, hydro or organic
as soon as grwoers hear that phosphorus and potassium are needed for flowering their logic is
"more P and K means bigger flowers, right?"

which we all know leads to alllll sorts of maladies

greasemonkeymann · Apr 7, 2017

yeatster said:
Thanks a lot @calliandra
I'm going to try and source some local compost. I have a hard time trusting sources to be what they claim. Hopefully, I can find something.
I have subbed to Rasta Roys thread. I read a couple pages but, like many threads, it gets bogged down with jibber jabber. I will skim through later.

Thank you @chemphlegm I will look into those products. I really appreciate it.

I do have quite a bit of AN left so, I don't expect to go cold turkey. My yields are great. I do however, get Cal. def. with certain strains, regularly and GO CalMg doesn't help much. Hopefully, I'll see a difference there.
Again, thank you

if calmag doesn't help it likely could be a lockout/toxicity issue.
or poor drainage..

Wetdog · Apr 7, 2017

greasemonkeymann said:
if calmag doesn't help it likely could be a lockout/toxicity issue.
or poor drainage..

And I would bet money that in 8 of 10 cases it's poor aeration/drainage being the issue and being misdiagnosed as a lockout/toxicity issue.

GMM, I know we both run north of 40% aeration, but when the actual mix amounts/ratios of *problem* soil are gotten into, aeration is usually treated like a red-headed stepchild, resulting in a too dense mix.

Rich mud is still mud.

Wet

Yodaweed · Apr 7, 2017

why autoflowers? They kinda have that gross autoflower taste from my experience i don't think going organic can fix that. If you need good photo genetics there are hundreds of seedbanks and breeders to choose from , if you need some suggestions let me know.

greasemonkeymann · Apr 7, 2017

Wetdog said:
And I would bet money that in 8 of 10 cases it's poor aeration/drainage being the issue and being misdiagnosed as a lockout/toxicity issue.

GMM, I know we both run north of 40% aeration, but when the actual mix amounts/ratios of *problem* soil are gotten into, aeration is usually treated like a red-headed stepchild, resulting in a too dense mix.

Rich mud is still mud.

Wet

abso-friggin-lutely!
as always we seem to share the same brain
aeration is CRUCIAL
many times the soil part can be totally perfect, but without enough oxygen in there the soil turns anaerobic.
gotta have it, and lots of it!

yeatster · Apr 7, 2017

greasemonkeymann said:
if calmag doesn't help it likely could be a lockout/toxicity issue.
or poor drainage..

Wetdog said:
And I would bet money that in 8 of 10 cases it's poor aeration/drainage being the issue and being misdiagnosed as a lockout/toxicity issue.

GMM, I know we both run north of 40% aeration, but when the actual mix amounts/ratios of *problem* soil are gotten into, aeration is usually treated like a red-headed stepchild, resulting in a too dense mix.

Rich mud is still mud.

Wet

I'm pretty sure it's not an aeration issue. Promix hp with approx 20% perlite added.

Yodaweed said:
why autoflowers? They kinda have that gross autoflower taste from my experience i don't think going organic can fix that. If you need good photo genetics there are hundreds of seedbanks and breeders to choose from , if you need some suggestions let me know.

I like Autoflowers. I know they are inferior to photos but not by much, imo. If I had more space, I would definitely make the switch but, I don't. I can run a perpetual in one tent and harvest every month.

Regardless, this is off topic. I guess I'll edit that stuff out.

yeatster · Apr 7, 2017

Guess I can't edit. I'll roll with the punches then.

greasemonkeymann · Apr 7, 2017

yeatster said:
Guess I can't edit. I'll roll with the punches then.

no need to edit man, it's not a formal type thing
why do you like autos?
just curious
you can do the same things to a photo plant as an auto, cept you can keep genetics if you like em, which is always good if you run into a special lady
just in my opinion, ruderalis seems to muddy up the genetics..

Yodaweed · Apr 7, 2017

yeatster said:
I'm pretty sure it's not an aeration issue. Promix hp with approx 20% perlite added.

I like Autoflowers. I know they are inferior to photos but not by much, imo. If I had more space, I would definitely make the switch but, I don't. I can run a perpetual in one tent and harvest every month.

Regardless, this is off topic. I guess I'll edit that stuff out.

You can run a perpetual setup in a single tent with photo's just don't veg them and start them under 12/12 light schedule, they will veg for a couple weeks then flower when they are ready. Just tryin to give you some options other than running rudys. Also would run you less electric and you can keep the standouts.

The reason i bring it up is because genetics are the most important part of growing.

Some help please, with transitioning to organics

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