this is my first grow and ive been growing for 4 weeks indoors from seedling start inside of a fish tank, there are 8 plants and i use two 65 watt plant lights ans one 70 watt plant forecent light, can i use this for all stages? i just started the flowering stage 2 days ago when there were 8 inches because i dont have to much vertical space, i know i have enough space for them to grow till harvest, i use the right nutes i know from reading so much , right now there 8inches tall, i could use any advise i can get plz help thanks
someone plz help me
- Thread starter peezy315
- Start date
Hayduke
Well-Known Member
It will work, but here is something to keep in mind...you get what you pay for.
Hard to really know much with no pics of plants or lights. You can grow good buds with CFL's or T-5 floros but you need to keep the lights really close and IMO CFL's are not cooler, watt for watt. Also bulbs sold as "grow bulbs" usually a "PAR" style bulb, produce more heat than they are worth. 42w cfl's produce more light, but they are not cooler or cheaper, you just can't buy a HID light @ wal-mart.
Hard to really know much with no pics of plants or lights. You can grow good buds with CFL's or T-5 floros but you need to keep the lights really close and IMO CFL's are not cooler, watt for watt. Also bulbs sold as "grow bulbs" usually a "PAR" style bulb, produce more heat than they are worth. 42w cfl's produce more light, but they are not cooler or cheaper, you just can't buy a HID light @ wal-mart.
Hayduke
Well-Known Member
This is good advice.
Personally, I would say if you think you are actually going to do this more than once...save your money and buy an HID light...buy a bigger light than you think you need BUT not bigger than you can control the heat. It would be better to cool 3-42w CFL's than not be able to cool HID lights of x watts.
For real though if you want to grow good buds with cfl's you need LOTS of them all around the plant because they do not push strong penetrating light. Once you have enough (like 6-10) you may as well have HID light. Some argue that 10-42w cfl's would be better than a 400w HID because cfl's are cooler. This is just not true. It is even more so not true if lumens are compared, and it is a poor comparison.
Here is why I say this. Unless cfl's are all at the top, the heat is spread around and more difficult to sequester and remove. More importantly if you compare 400w of cfl's to 400w of HID there is no question that the same amount of electricity is used and ther is no question that the HID produces more light. So where did the energy of the 400w of cfl's go to if they produce less light than the HID light? The leftover energy that is not converted to light is converted to heat, period.
This is not just book stuff, though it does make sense, I have done 420w of cfl's to grow little "straight to flower" clones...and it works good...but I now use the same ventilation to cool 400w HPS, and there is no way I could grow the same quality or quanity using anywhere close to the same watts of cfls...and here is the real shocker...the HPS (with air cooled hood) runs 5+ degrees cooler...though the comparison is near irrelevant, 10-42w cfl's=27,000 lumens...400w spectrum adjusted ag bulb=55,000 lumens.
The lesson here is this. Do not waste another dime on anything other than an affordable HID lamp (assuming you do not live with your parents and are an adult). HTG supply sells 400W HPS for $119 USD + shippping. This is not an air-cooled hood, though you could make your own (though DIY projects often come close to the cost of buying the already engineered product). Another excellent place to get CHEAP lighting is off Craigslist. People quit growing or upgrade all the time and you could easliy score a 1000w light or less for $100. Often the bulb needs replaced, but it would still be 10x better than what you have.
If the above is not an option...I would just deal with the heat of cfl's or 2-150w HPS security lights from hardware and with a piece of tempered glass, build an air cooled hood.
Hayduke
Well-Known Member
The most common ones are 2700K (warm white, they look orange like an HPS) Wal-Mart sells them for $8.47 made by GE. In socal they also sell an older generation for $0.99, and though not as bright, are well worth the money. Home Sinkhole and Lowes also carry 42w in the light bulb section, these but tend to have short lives. The ones at the hardware that are in the security light section and are "Lights of America" brand are not self ballasted and require a special fixture, they will burn out fast in regular fixture. I have one of these in 65watts, it is a security light and is supposed to put off 500 eq watts (no) in my veg box and I like it. It was a close out at Lowes and with a cord was < $30
thanks man and i dont really have much money at all man u dont think what i have will work, what would happen with the yield if i grow with the lights i got now and the tank is 1ft tall 1ft wide and 2.5ft long and im sure not all plants are females so mabey like 6 or 4 will b i hope, what do u think the yield would come out to b with what i have now compared if i got how many cflos? would my yield b u think?
SunKissedBuds
Well-Known Member
my advice get rid of the plant/grow lights and use daylight and softwhite flouro's, as simple as that homeslice!
Hayduke
Well-Known Member
If you have no money than it does not matter. You have 200w of light, so you can probably get something you could smoke, nothing I would want to smoke. If you do it right, even with cfl's you could easily get an oz per plant. I will say again, and there really is no avoiding this...you get what you pay for. Nothing is free. If you want to get a little half assed bud, then put that much into it. You can save money...mainly by not wasting it on CFL's!
smokiedog
Well-Known Member
i think your space may be too small. its 1 foot tall? and they vegged until they were eight inches? are they in individual planters or just dirt in a tank?
no matter what light you use they are going to out grow that tank. get rid of the grow lights and get 2700K CFL's. you may almost be better off letting all the plants sex, pick the strongest female and turn that tank on its end. then you can grow one real nice plant. or LST them and leave the tank the way it is now and you can have 3 real nice LST'd plants in there. i would go with a 300 watt equivalant CFL(if you cant spend 50-60 bucks on a 150 watt HPS security light). the 300 watt CFL is huge, home dpot sells them for 14.99 and they are 2700K
no matter what light you use they are going to out grow that tank. get rid of the grow lights and get 2700K CFL's. you may almost be better off letting all the plants sex, pick the strongest female and turn that tank on its end. then you can grow one real nice plant. or LST them and leave the tank the way it is now and you can have 3 real nice LST'd plants in there. i would go with a 300 watt equivalant CFL(if you cant spend 50-60 bucks on a 150 watt HPS security light). the 300 watt CFL is huge, home dpot sells them for 14.99 and they are 2700K
Hayduke
Well-Known Member
Agreed on the 3 LST plants. The Big Cfl's are 6500k, better for veg but will work. I have a "500w" (actually 65), they have a mogul base, not a medium base like a regular light bulb. They are also not ballasted. You can not just screw one into a mogul socket, they require a Lights of America ballasted fixture. Those bulbs you see in Home Sinkhole are replacement bulbs. A friend has tried and they kept burning out. Regular CFL's have the electronics built in.
Here are pics of the big cfl
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stumps
Well-Known Member
Color Temperature (CT) - Color temperature, which is measured in Kelvin, indicates whether a lamp has a warm, midrange or cool color appearance. "Warm" light sources have a low color temperature (2000-3000K) and feature more light in the red/orange/yellow range. Light with a higher color temperature (>5000K) features more blue light and is referred to as "cool."
CT is listed on most lights for veg 5000k and higher for flower 2000-3000k
smokiedog
Well-Known Member
we are talking about two different things on 2 different issues here bro... 1ST: the big cfl i am talking about is a 300 watt equiv 2700k cflAgreed on the 3 LST plants. The Big Cfl's are 6500k, better for veg but will work. I have a "500w" (actually 65), they have a mogul base, not a medium base like a regular light bulb. They are also not ballasted. You can not just screw one into a mogul socket, they require a Lights of America ballasted fixture. Those bulbs you see in Home Sinkhole are replacement bulbs. A friend has tried and they kept burning out. Regular CFL's have the electronics built in.
Here are pics of the big cfl
2ND: the hps security light i am talking about is a 110v ballasted outdoor security light that is easily converted to remote ballast hps light with hood for almost nothing
question: what does regular cfls having electronics built in to them have to do with a friend repeatedly burning out replacement hps bulbs in an unballasted mougul socket? maybe thats why they kept burning out, they need a ballast.
Hayduke
Well-Known Member
Well not really. Just from my experience...At my Home Depot...I have shopped for these extensively...The largest self-ballasted CFL is a 42w 150w equivalent. These are in the "light bulb section".
The larger CFL's are in the "security light" section and are not self ballasted bulbs, but meant for specific fixtures that contain the ballast. These are not spiral bulbs and start @ 42w and go up to around 105w. The brand is "lights of America" The 42's are medium (regular) base (socket) and all others are mogul base (big like a HID)....these are all 6500K
As for #2: I totally get that...I was showing an example of the above mentioned CFL's in my picture and added a cord to a fixture meant for direct wire...and I was also referring to the 110v HPS security lights, though I have rarely seen them in 250w...they are often 70w and 150w, and a good option only if for some reason a person is sketched about shipping from hydroponics companies or lives where there are not several hydro shops damn near within walking distance...or is a kid, both understandable. But 2 of these will cost more than a 250 or 400 (mail-order) and leave you worried about wiring and a sh!tty reflector(s).
Now to answer your question of "what does regular cfls having electronics built in to them have to do with a friend repeatedly burning out replacement hps bulbs in an unballasted mogul socket? maybe thats why they kept burning out, they need a ballast": again we are only partly misunderstanding...The friend burned out NON BALLASTED CFL's from the "security lights" section which in the larger wattages have a mogul base. Mogul bases are available for only a couple of bucks and these lights are often recommended on these sites as well as mistaken by the DIY'er (my friend) for being able to work as long as you get the larger mogul base. They don't, they, as well as HID (HPS or MH), need a ballast...and yes this is why they burnt out...He was not burning out replacement HPS bulbs in the aforementioned mogul bases, that would be ridiculous. The larger wattage cfl's in the "security lighting" section are fairly new to the public, and only say in very small print that they must be used in a specific fixture, and one might suppose this is for the bulb manufacturers gain, and therefore assume they are like the CFL's in the news.
That being said...I just recalled, the same friend told me he found a 300w eq self ballasted in a grocery store (he lives in KC) and it has a medium base and he is currently using it (I believe) to winter some tree indoors with a high ceiling.
I believe this is a 65watter, like mine in the pics, but in the user friendly medium base and self ballast. I assume your local hardware has these? HD and Lowes in SD do not.
There are also high wattage self ballasted CFL's in mogul and medium base available on-line and at local shops, but they are over-priced.
Hope that cleared up the confusion...If you can find the >42w bulbs I would try them as long as the price is >~$15 USD. If not smaller bulbs with splitters (Y adapters, use two to make 3 sockets) are more economical.
A little disclaimer here...I do not know sh!t except for what I have seen myself. I have read TONS of advice and tried lots of stuff. Anything that I say is purely from personal experience unless otherwise noted. I am absolutely still a student in this hobby, but I learn fast. I grow pretty good bud with very limited space and the limited budget of a medical grower vs. the local for-profit dealers. I have jumped on the band wagons of CFL's (cuz they save energy and are cooler...both total BS), straight from clones...(works for some, but not for most), Fox Farm soil and nutes, and big pots, and letting lots of crystals get Amber before cutting (sign of trichromes degrading...will continue for at least a day after cut...and makes for sleepy couch lock bud that could have been High and Stoned!) This last one being purely opinion...oh yeah and re-vegging a plant (great for special strains that otherwise would be lost, but stressful and takes longer than starting from seed...still dig zombies though!).
smokiedog
Well-Known Member
not trying to have a pissing match with you... but i guess not all home depots carry the same stuff. this is a 68 watt, self ballasted, 300 watt equivalent, 2700K CFL that will work in any standard outlet.Well not really. Just from my experience...At my Home Depot...I have shopped for these extensively...The largest self-ballasted CFL is a 42w 150w equivalent. These are in the "light bulb section".
The larger CFL's are in the "security light" section and are not self ballasted bulbs, but meant for specific fixtures that contain the ballast. These are not spiral bulbs and start @ 42w and go up to around 105w. The brand is "lights of America" The 42's are medium (regular) base (socket) and all others are mogul base (big like a HID)....these are all 6500K
As for #2: I totally get that...I was showing an example of the above mentioned CFL's in my picture and added a cord to a fixture meant for direct wire...and I was also referring to the 110v HPS security lights, though I have rarely seen them in 250w...they are often 70w and 150w, and a good option only if for some reason a person is sketched about shipping from hydroponics companies or lives where there are not several hydro shops damn near within walking distance...or is a kid, both understandable. But 2 of these will cost more than a 250 or 400 (mail-order) and leave you worried about wiring and a sh!tty reflector(s).
Now to answer your question of "what does regular cfls having electronics built in to them have to do with a friend repeatedly burning out replacement hps bulbs in an unballasted mogul socket? maybe thats why they kept burning out, they need a ballast": again we are only partly misunderstanding...The friend burned out NON BALLASTED CFL's from the "security lights" section which in the larger wattages have a mogul base. Mogul bases are available for only a couple of bucks and these lights are often recommended on these sites as well as mistaken by the DIY'er (my friend) for being able to work as long as you get the larger mogul base. They don't, they, as well as HID (HPS or MH), need a ballast...and yes this is why they burnt out...He was not burning out replacement HPS bulbs in the aforementioned mogul bases, that would be ridiculous. The larger wattage cfl's in the "security lighting" section are fairly new to the public, and only say in very small print that they must be used in a specific fixture, and one might suppose this is for the bulb manufacturers gain, and therefore assume they are like the CFL's in the news.
That being said...I just recalled, the same friend told me he found a 300w eq self ballasted in a grocery store (he lives in KC) and it has a medium base and he is currently using it (I believe) to winter some tree indoors with a high ceiling.
I believe this is a 65watter, like mine in the pics, but in the user friendly medium base and self ballast. I assume your local hardware has these? HD and Lowes in SD do not.
There are also high wattage self ballasted CFL's in mogul and medium base available on-line and at local shops, but they are over-priced.
Hope that cleared up the confusion...If you can find the >42w bulbs I would try them as long as the price is >~$15 USD. If not smaller bulbs with splitters (Y adapters, use two to make 3 sockets) are more economical.
it is 4.1 inches in diameter and 10 inches tall. It is at my home depot, but not on the thier web site. this is 14.99 at Home Depot - see pic attached
if you want to give advise thats fine, but dont say that somebodey elses advice is wrong just becuase you arent familar with it.
also, i built a 100 watt hps remote ballast from security light that is awesome for a total of 25 bucks, and there are plenty of grow shops near me and i also buy stuff online and i'm not a kid. it is safe, with appropiate gauge wiring and connections. i use it to supplement my 400 watt hps.
like you, i like to just offer advice from my own experience. but you dont have to increase your credibility by attacking mine
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smokiedog
Well-Known Member
Peezy - a diy hps is not that difficult to do. you can get the components you need from electrical supply warehouses. check the phone book or yahoo yellow pages. most small to mid sized cities have a few. if your in a remote town in the middle of nowhere this may not be an option. or you can gut a hps security light and reconfigure it. If you can find one, just tell them you need a transformer, ignitor, capacitor and mogel socket for whatever watt size light you want to build. they may or may not have a wiring diagram but they are easy to find on here or on the net. there are also "pusle start" in which there is no capacitor, just an ignitor.
i gutted a 100 watt hps security light and mounted the ballast and ignitor in an old pc power supply box. (please note that i used an empyt box, i didnt just plug the hps light into it). I used this because it has plenty of vents and holes to let the heat out. i then used the existing pc power cord to power it and i used a 14 gauge lamp cord to make the mogal socket remote. you could just use a ballasted security light right out of the box by just adding a power cord. but the ballast gives off a lot of heat and its not as mobile for adjusting height as justa bulb with a light weight hood. if your realtivly handy and know the basics about electricity this is pretty straight forward. this light would be perfect for a 1 plant. i have since added a hood (that i made for fee out an old shop light hood) but havnt taken pics yet). i use it as extra light with my 400 hPS (shoulda bought the 600W!!!)
i got the bulb, the socket, the ignitor and transformer on ebay for under 25 shipped. there are hps lights or "security lights" on craigslist fairly often, as many people are "going green" and converting there HID outdoor lights to more economical flourecents (like the one in the pic with the milk jug).
if you have any doubts about your ability to do this, dont do it or get help from a friend that knows (or ask for help on RUI)- faulty can cause fires. the biggest thing is making sure its hooked up correct and there are no lose wires or bare/exposed wires. if its hooked up wrong it just wont work, if its hooked up correct with bad connections that is where bad thing happen, check all connections twice and then check again!
hope this sheds some light... pun intended
i gutted a 100 watt hps security light and mounted the ballast and ignitor in an old pc power supply box. (please note that i used an empyt box, i didnt just plug the hps light into it). I used this because it has plenty of vents and holes to let the heat out. i then used the existing pc power cord to power it and i used a 14 gauge lamp cord to make the mogal socket remote. you could just use a ballasted security light right out of the box by just adding a power cord. but the ballast gives off a lot of heat and its not as mobile for adjusting height as justa bulb with a light weight hood. if your realtivly handy and know the basics about electricity this is pretty straight forward. this light would be perfect for a 1 plant. i have since added a hood (that i made for fee out an old shop light hood) but havnt taken pics yet). i use it as extra light with my 400 hPS (shoulda bought the 600W!!!)
i got the bulb, the socket, the ignitor and transformer on ebay for under 25 shipped. there are hps lights or "security lights" on craigslist fairly often, as many people are "going green" and converting there HID outdoor lights to more economical flourecents (like the one in the pic with the milk jug).
if you have any doubts about your ability to do this, dont do it or get help from a friend that knows (or ask for help on RUI)- faulty can cause fires. the biggest thing is making sure its hooked up correct and there are no lose wires or bare/exposed wires. if its hooked up wrong it just wont work, if its hooked up correct with bad connections that is where bad thing happen, check all connections twice and then check again!
hope this sheds some light... pun intended
