only if I tell you, it didn't, don't worry about it though.
Spider Mites Questions
- Thread starter Redoctober
- Start date
Redoctober
Well-Known Member
Damn it! ok I'm gonna try again
good luck! I have a small closet in the basement I use for overflow, males or to isolate plants b4 bringing them into the grow & I got mites a few yrs ago.they never seem to die! I have shut it down for several months,bombed it several times,Neemed the shit out of it,pest strips,you name it I have tried it(except high CO2) within a few weeks of starting it up again,the little bastards return.I just learned to live w/ it. I never go from closet to main room & when moving plants,I neem,wait 3 days,neem again & move to main room,wait 3 days & neem everything in main room and watch for a few weeks. so far my main room has not gotten infested.(knock on wood)
if you are using hydroponics, SM 90 is sold as a wetting agent but adds something to the plants that spidermites hate. it can be sprayed like neem and works the same but adding to a rez is where it shines. dont add to soil as it will kill the emzymes in the soil.
if you are using hydroponics, SM 90 is sold as a wetting agent but adds something to the plants that spidermites hate. it can be sprayed like neem and works the same but adding to a rez is where it shines. dont add to soil as it will kill the emzymes in the soil.
Redoctober
Well-Known Member
mrmadcow, that sucks ass! I guess they can go dormant and the eggs must be able to remain viable for months. The CO2 method might be worth while. I think its 10,000ppm but I'm not sure how long this needs to be administered. Have you tried predatory mites? They seem pretty legit, though they are expensive. Ladybugs would be a cheaper albeit less effective alternative. So have you tried the SM 90, or are you in soil? I have GoGnats which can also be used in the rez but it gave me bad burn last time I sprayed with it so I'm reluctant to coat the roots in it. I'm going with the no pest strip and safers soap combined with some neem and other various sprays for now. Fingers crossed. If these don't work, I'm getting the predator mites. Sometimes you need hired guns.
frmr, I finally got the rep to work! What is it about the Safers Soap that prevents mites from building a resistance to it? Everyone keeps scaring me telling me that nothing will work. I'm starting to believe them. Actually I've gone past scared and am now in the depressed phase
EDIT: oh I see that it dehydrates the protective exoskeleton of the insect and kills it. Some people on the review section of Amazon said that it blackened and killed their plants. Now these people were probably using it on different kinds of plants than us, or they were morons, but have you ever experienced any adverse effects from the Safers e.g. dehydration or blackening? I assume I should apply it at the beginning of lights out?
frmr, I finally got the rep to work! What is it about the Safers Soap that prevents mites from building a resistance to it? Everyone keeps scaring me telling me that nothing will work. I'm starting to believe them. Actually I've gone past scared and am now in the depressed phase
EDIT: oh I see that it dehydrates the protective exoskeleton of the insect and kills it. Some people on the review section of Amazon said that it blackened and killed their plants. Now these people were probably using it on different kinds of plants than us, or they were morons, but have you ever experienced any adverse effects from the Safers e.g. dehydration or blackening? I assume I should apply it at the beginning of lights out?
If you don't use a freshly mixed batch of spray you will get plant damage so mix only what you can use that day.
Unless you are blind how are you gonna spray with lights out without disrupting your light schedule ?
PS: eggs can last a year.
tried ladybugs after killing off the adults w/ neem. -if you try both, you need to give the neem(or whatever "poison" you use) a day and then rinse the plants well.
as for SM90, I use it to wash the plants but am in soil. a buddy does hydro & has given me a few plants started in rockwool and treated w/ it. after a week sitting next to an infested plant, none of the little bastards made a home of it.
frmrboi, thanks for the info. I will try letting the closet sit for a yr or so. its main use is to quarantine new arrivals but if the room is infested, its not much good
Redoctober
Well-Known Member
Two words...night vision! haha! No just kiding, I would turn on a house light after the grow lights click off. I don't think the plants would mind or notice 3 or 4 extra minutes of low light at the end of a long day of growing like champs. Just enough time to give a good spray down.
Damn! No wonder these little bastards are so persistent!
I'm also thinking of trying the sulfur method outlined in this thread:
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=117056
FirstRuleOfFightClub
Active Member
Not sure Dude, I'm into breeding Cannabis, not bugs! LOL. But if I get desperate enough to buy some predators I'll be sure to post my impressions here. I'm thinking about chucking or flowering all of my dense, bushy mothers because they are such good hiding places for the little bastards. I am working toward a perpetual grow were I'll grow single cola plants of less than two feet in height - maximizing my tiny flowering space while minimizing mite habitat. Anyway, if I bust any new moves beyond my regular Neem applications I'll post it up here.
Good luck and stay Kind!
FirstRuleOfFightClub
Active Member
Redoctober
Well-Known Member
I hear good things about SNS-217 though I've never personally tried it. I think its made with rosemary oil. I too am thinking of going with single cola plants. I guess there are tradeoffs, one being, you need more plants. They're a bit more managable with a single cola, and certainly easier to keep separate and spray.
I bought a bunch of essential oils at the health food store today in an effort to make a little home brew cocktail ala RRLBT420. I bought the extracts meant for aromatherapy though and I'm trying to ascertain if those are okay to use, or if I need the food grade extracts in order to be plant friendly. The food grade stuff is 2x the price; the aromatherapy stuff says external use only. I don't want to use it if it'll harm the ladies.
On another note, I'm trying a product called Organocide that I got at home depot. It's a contact killer and it seems to be working pretty well so far. It's made from sesame and fish oils I think. It's not neem or pyrethrum/permethrin based so I don't know if the mites can even build a tolerance to it. I believe the oils suffocate them. Thankfully they can't really build a tolerance to suffocation. Someone please correct me if I am mistaken, I'm not 100% on the mechanism of action.
On another note, for those considering biological mite control you might want to Google "Spider Mite Destroyers Stethorus Punctipes." These are something new and they look like they mean business! They're expensive which is why I'd want to breed and keep them so that I only have to buy em once and have a steady supply on hand. I think they are a genus of beetle, and they look kind of like a small, black ladybug. Supposedly they have an absolutely voracious appetite for mites, aphids and other tiny crawlers. They eat about 10x-20x as much as predatory mites and will lay eggs and multiply as long as there is a steady food source on hand. If all else fails, I might break down and shell out for em.
I bought a bunch of essential oils at the health food store today in an effort to make a little home brew cocktail ala RRLBT420. I bought the extracts meant for aromatherapy though and I'm trying to ascertain if those are okay to use, or if I need the food grade extracts in order to be plant friendly. The food grade stuff is 2x the price; the aromatherapy stuff says external use only. I don't want to use it if it'll harm the ladies.
On another note, I'm trying a product called Organocide that I got at home depot. It's a contact killer and it seems to be working pretty well so far. It's made from sesame and fish oils I think. It's not neem or pyrethrum/permethrin based so I don't know if the mites can even build a tolerance to it. I believe the oils suffocate them. Thankfully they can't really build a tolerance to suffocation. Someone please correct me if I am mistaken, I'm not 100% on the mechanism of action.
On another note, for those considering biological mite control you might want to Google "Spider Mite Destroyers Stethorus Punctipes." These are something new and they look like they mean business! They're expensive which is why I'd want to breed and keep them so that I only have to buy em once and have a steady supply on hand. I think they are a genus of beetle, and they look kind of like a small, black ladybug. Supposedly they have an absolutely voracious appetite for mites, aphids and other tiny crawlers. They eat about 10x-20x as much as predatory mites and will lay eggs and multiply as long as there is a steady food source on hand. If all else fails, I might break down and shell out for em.
FirstRuleOfFightClub
Active Member
Daaaamn! You weren't kidding when you said they were pricey! $130 or 100?!??! Madness! I found a pretty cheap outlet for SNS-217 HERE. That's a little more in my price range!
My whole grow space is only 4' x 8', so I don't have a lot of horizontal space to play with. Even tho I could get more per plant by cropping/FIM'ing for multiple colas I just don't have the room. I use ten gallon DWC bubblers for the benefits of hydro but also fill in around the bubblers with girls in four inch pots of Happy Frog. Best of both worlds - yield of hydro with the lower maintenance of soil. I guess it's kind of a simple SOG.
Lemme know how you like the Organocide. I read somewhere that sesame oil is actually toxic to the little bastards, but I imagine the addition of the fish oil adds the suffocation factor. The real problem is finding something to kills the eggs. Some of the predators apparently eat eggs. I think to really get clean we'll have to either get expensive predators, risk the homemade sulfur burner, or figure out how to get a CO2 rig and push all to O2 out of the grow space for an hour. Regardless, it all sounds expensive and a huge pain in the ass!
Keep up the fight and stay Kind
My whole grow space is only 4' x 8', so I don't have a lot of horizontal space to play with. Even tho I could get more per plant by cropping/FIM'ing for multiple colas I just don't have the room. I use ten gallon DWC bubblers for the benefits of hydro but also fill in around the bubblers with girls in four inch pots of Happy Frog. Best of both worlds - yield of hydro with the lower maintenance of soil. I guess it's kind of a simple SOG.
Lemme know how you like the Organocide. I read somewhere that sesame oil is actually toxic to the little bastards, but I imagine the addition of the fish oil adds the suffocation factor. The real problem is finding something to kills the eggs. Some of the predators apparently eat eggs. I think to really get clean we'll have to either get expensive predators, risk the homemade sulfur burner, or figure out how to get a CO2 rig and push all to O2 out of the grow space for an hour. Regardless, it all sounds expensive and a huge pain in the ass!
Keep up the fight and stay Kind
Corso312
Well-Known Member
Redoctober
Well-Known Member
DrFever, thant's funny that you posted that! I literally ordered that stuff yesterday along with the safers soap from treehelp. It may be redundant to have the safers soap in addition to the miticide as I believe the soap is one of he ingredients in the miticide, but hey, for $10 extra, why not!
FirstRule, so far the Organocide is working quite well. Much better than I expected for a $12 bottle from home depot, so far it beats the other expensive neems and miticides I've tried. I'm going to do another treatment in 3 days when the new batch of eggs hatch, and every 3 days after for about a week to a week and a half. I have no illusions of killing 100% of them, I'm just trying to destroy enough of the population that I can start flowering. I think you can use the organocide well into flower though. If you can get the SNS cheap, I'd say go for it. Let us know what you think. If you have a home depot around, you might want to spring for the organocide. I could always use a second opinion. It comes in a 64oz bottle, ready to use. It's almost worth it just for the sprayer it comes with (it's a long flexible tube so that the spray head is detached from the bottle; makes it so much easier to spray the undersides of leaves and really get in there).
I think I will go for the destroyers at some point, maybe after this grow. Ironically, in order to keep them, I think you'd actually have to keep a colony of mites or aphids alive as a food supply for the predators. If that $120 could be a one time thing, it'd be worth it for me cause I'm sure that at this point I've spent at least that much on sprays, and bombs. Thay do eat the eggs also which is a bonus because apparently the eggs can remain viable and dormant for a year.
The CO2 option does sound good, but like you said, expensive and a pain in the ass. I also don't know if a CO2 blast will kill the eggs...probably not. I'm not sure how effective the sulfur is against the mites. Have you heard anything on this front? I read the home made sulfur burner thread but it's mostly intended for combating powdery mildew. The guy who made it said that he wasn't sure it'd kill mites.
FirstRule, so far the Organocide is working quite well. Much better than I expected for a $12 bottle from home depot, so far it beats the other expensive neems and miticides I've tried. I'm going to do another treatment in 3 days when the new batch of eggs hatch, and every 3 days after for about a week to a week and a half. I have no illusions of killing 100% of them, I'm just trying to destroy enough of the population that I can start flowering. I think you can use the organocide well into flower though. If you can get the SNS cheap, I'd say go for it. Let us know what you think. If you have a home depot around, you might want to spring for the organocide. I could always use a second opinion. It comes in a 64oz bottle, ready to use. It's almost worth it just for the sprayer it comes with (it's a long flexible tube so that the spray head is detached from the bottle; makes it so much easier to spray the undersides of leaves and really get in there).
I think I will go for the destroyers at some point, maybe after this grow. Ironically, in order to keep them, I think you'd actually have to keep a colony of mites or aphids alive as a food supply for the predators. If that $120 could be a one time thing, it'd be worth it for me cause I'm sure that at this point I've spent at least that much on sprays, and bombs. Thay do eat the eggs also which is a bonus because apparently the eggs can remain viable and dormant for a year.
The CO2 option does sound good, but like you said, expensive and a pain in the ass. I also don't know if a CO2 blast will kill the eggs...probably not. I'm not sure how effective the sulfur is against the mites. Have you heard anything on this front? I read the home made sulfur burner thread but it's mostly intended for combating powdery mildew. The guy who made it said that he wasn't sure it'd kill mites.
fred flintstoned
Well-Known Member
Be careful with the mix on Organocide. If you mix it too strong it can kill your plants overnight. I almost killed an entire crop with it. Nursed em back to health, but yield was shitty. You also might wanna throw in a different poison on one day just to make sure they don't develop a resistance. Maybe Neem or Pyrethrin.
With the predator mites, temp and humidity changes will be necessary. The vendor should be able to advise you on this. Once they've done their job, you can resume normal settings. I've used the blend of different species with success. They're somewhat slow in action but they're definitely thorough. They'll hunt down every single mite and egg before they die out. Hungry bastards!
Good luck,
Fred
With the predator mites, temp and humidity changes will be necessary. The vendor should be able to advise you on this. Once they've done their job, you can resume normal settings. I've used the blend of different species with success. They're somewhat slow in action but they're definitely thorough. They'll hunt down every single mite and egg before they die out. Hungry bastards!
Good luck,
Fred
chief blunts
Active Member
go to the local nursery and buy some lady bugs and predators. these little buggers are fucking terrible.
Redoctober
Well-Known Member
fred, thanks for the heads up. I read one or two reviews like that on amazon of people saying it killed their plants; but to be fair, there's not one single product that doesn't have a bad review like that. The organocide I bought is not a concentrate that you mix yourself, it's just ready to use as is. They seem to have gotten the concentration pretty spot on though. When I first got it, I was afraid of what you are talking about, so I tested it on a few clones and a branch or two of a plant just to see what would happen. I made sure to do it at the beginning of dark phase to avoid burning the leaves. I gave it an entire day, and they were fine so I went ahead and did the rest. It worked out great! It's been 5 days or so and I haven't seen one live mite. I do see eggs still on the leaves but I'm not sure if they're viable or not. I know the life cycle is about 3-5 days, so I expect that a new batch will be hatching about now. If I don't see anything alive, I think I'll hold off the spray, but I'm expecting to have to do another coating.
With the predator mites, what species did you use? Have you ever tried the spider mite destroyers(beetles)? I've heard good things about predator mites and mixed reviews on ladybugs. It's just what I've heard, but people say that ladybugs alone won't get the job done, though they may help to cut the population back.
With the predator mites, what species did you use? Have you ever tried the spider mite destroyers(beetles)? I've heard good things about predator mites and mixed reviews on ladybugs. It's just what I've heard, but people say that ladybugs alone won't get the job done, though they may help to cut the population back.
I've also had an ongoing problem with spider mites. At best I,ve been able to keep their numbers down using almost "all of the above'. Today my "No Spider Mites" by Greenway Nutrients arrived. Its expensive, about $40 for a 32oz spray bottle, but its claimed that it kills both the mites and eggs in one application, is all natural, non toxic, almost odorless and comes with a money back guarantee. In a couple of days I will give my review here.
Redoctober
Well-Known Member
Yes please give us your review. Hopefully it'll knock those little bastards out! Also have you tried "Liquid Ladybug" spray? I'm curious about it. They do a time lapse video demonstration on their website. I don't know anyone who has tried it but remember reading good reviews from forum posts.
Nope. not tried Liquid Ladybug, but the result for No Spider Mites is really good so far. I sprayed both sides before lights out yesterday and when lights came on could not find one living mite. For me that is a first! It will be interesting to see if they reappear in 3 or 4 days.