Spinosad..

Driver733 said:

I am now on my 2nd day after my 2nd application of Monterey LG6332 Bacillus Thuringiensis (B.t.) Worm & Caterpillar Killer Insecticide/Pesticide Treatment Concentrate, 16 oz from Amazon only $14.64 for a pint, all ready to mix (no bits to make tea).

I am happy to report that after finding at least 30 new flying gnats 2 days ago, this morning I found only 2 new flying gnats caught outside the nets (in the tent), and no new gnats in the nets (hatched from the pots). It appears the B.T. treatment is definitely the way to go.

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BT-k is for Lepidoptera, like moth and armyworm larva.
BT-i is for Diptera , fly and mosquito larva
It does have a marginal effect on reproduction, but only weakens them if I recall correctly.

DCcan said:

BT-k is for Lepidoptera, like moth and armyworm larva.
BT-i is for Diptera , fly and mosquito larva
It does have a marginal effect on reproduction, but only weakens them if I recall correctly.

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Thank you for the clarification, I didn't know there was a subspecies. The good news is, this is the 3rd day after the 2nd application, and I have no new gnats in either pot net. I also seem to have the flying gnats under control, only 2 new ones in the trap this morning, compared to 10-20 new ones caught in the morning just a few days ago.

I will hope I got lucky and this stuff continues to work. I am going to keep dosing in my regular watering until the pint runs out, I don't think it keeps well and I hope to never have this battle in the future!

Thanks again for your feedback, I really appreciate it.

DCcan said:

They are probably under the root crown and repopulating, may need a BTi/etc root soak to get everything treated.
The Microbe-Lift is much better than Mosquito bits or dunks tossed in. You have no idea how much is leached, or where it drains to using chunks of treated cork.

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I've been punching thru the top layer of soil, it's actually really hard, much worse than normal, IDK if that is due to the gnats but I made sure the pot got a good soak. I would dunk in a 5 gallon bucket but I am disabled and cannot lift more than 10 pounds (without hurting myself). So I used 2 gallons of treated, fertilized water in a 2.8 gallon air pot (that seems to have lots of plugged side holes, going back to fabric pots).

Update: First day after the 3rd treatment of B.T.k (not i) and I am happy to report there are zero new gnats anywhere - none in the tent traps, none flying around, none inside the nets of each pot. The B.T. treatment I used, subspecies k, is not supposed to work on gnat larvae, but it seems to have worked for me. Otherwise, the lack of gnats is due to the continued use of the mosquito netting.

In any case, I will continue to use the B.T.k to treat the water until the bottle is empty, and hope I never fail to use gnat-free soil ever again. Also going back to fabric pots, I don't think the air pots work as well as fabric in drying out the pots.

The air pots are not the reason I had gnats, but I do think it made the gnat problem worse - I've never had a gnat problem in the past, and I've never grown in air pots until now, just fabric pots. Coincidence, maybe combined with taking a chance on potting soil right out of the bag, which was stupid. Live and learn.

The nice thing about the air pots is I did get a full 100% double (18" to 36") size of the plant in stretch, the fabric pots I get about 85-90% (18" to 33") so that was interesting, who knows if it was due to the air pots. I may run a side by side comparison with clones to see if there is a difference.

@TintEastwood .. Hey brother!.. I got in the stuff you recommended. What would you dose a mix of 50 gallons? It just says on the label how many ml per acre of body of water. Just to start off, I put 10 drops per 50 gallons. Says it will treat 2500 gallons? Seems pretty strong for that cheap.

mudballs said:

Have you seen me talk about a dish of apple cider vinegar with a drop of soap to break surface tension? Old trick that works. They love the stuff and cheaper than sticky traps at that scale

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Must not be that bad.. I tried your recipe, and have not caught a single gnat in 3 trays. I did just get in the BTI that @TintEastwood suggested, and Im going to dose my mix with that till they are all treated with it, and see what happens. Sticky traps are not that active anymore either. ... Must be getting it under control anyways... thanks all!

Nizza said:

Try out beneficial nematodes bro!
easy and worth the $.

edit: order now, thank me later

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Facts

DoubleAtotheRON said:

@TintEastwood .. Hey brother!.. I got in the stuff you recommended. What would you dose a mix of 50 gallons? It just says on the label how many ml per acre of body of water. Just to start off, I put 10 drops per 50 gallons. Says it will treat 2500 gallons? Seems pretty strong for that cheap.

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Potent beyond belief.

They recommend a mere 2.5 ml per 1000 gallons.

Per gallon.
General consensus when I searched around was 1 to 2 drops per gallon.

Not sure what that equals for 50 gallons.
I only mix 8 gallons at a time.

Now you have me curious to find out how many of my drops equal 1ml.
2 of my drops may be an excessive amount. (Waste)

I start using it at first sign of gnats. It takes several weeks to completely eliminate.

Have not had to use any on my current grow. Lucky.

Photo bomb

TintEastwood said:

Potent beyond belief.

They recommend a mere 2.5 ml per 1000 gallons.

Per gallon.
General consensus when I searched around was 1 to 2 drops per gallon.

Not sure what that equals for 50 gallons.
I only mix 8 gallons at a time.

Now you have me curious to find out how many of my drops equal 1ml.
2 of my drops may be an excessive amount. (Waste)

I start using it at first sign of gnats. It takes several weeks to completely eliminate.

Have not had to use any on my current grow. Lucky.

Photo bomb
View attachment 5048873

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Yeah, I just figured 10 drops per 50 would be a good start... Nice Photo Bomb!

DoubleAtotheRON said:

Must not be that bad.. I tried your recipe, and have not caught a single gnat in 3 trays. I did just get in the BTI that @TintEastwood suggested, and Im going to dose my mix with that till they are all treated with it, and see what happens. Sticky traps are not that active anymore either. ... Must be getting it under control anyways... thanks all!

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im glad to hear it isn't as bad. I keep dropping that old trick cuz cuz it does work.
remember this

jochhe1998 said:

You guys are really selling me on the dunks. I'm gonna pick up a pack and keep it even if the hydrogen peroxide works. sounds like it would be a nice addition to the IPM.

Also, shout out to the apple cider vinegar - it's killing way more adult gnats than the sticky traps.

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maybe it's not great idea in large spaces, that's what i'm thinking. they couldn't care less about a few dishes of ACV when they have 90 pots to hang out in.

mudballs said:

im glad to hear it isn't as bad. I keep dropping that old trick cuz cuz it does work.
remember this

maybe it's not great idea in large spaces, that's what i'm thinking. they couldn't care less about a few dishes of ACV when they have 90 pots to hang out in.

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I know right?... I'll keep dosing the BTI and still refresh traps, just to see if there is any activity from here to harvest.

DoubleAtotheRON said:

Yeah, I just figured 10 drops per 50 would be a good start... Nice Photo Bomb!

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Week 9

Note: I have not used any BTi this grow. Lucky no gnats. If they show up on stickies....I break out the bacteria.

Baby grow compared to DoubleA. Not jealous. Lol

TintEastwood said:

Week 9
View attachment 5049179
Note: I have not used any BTi this grow. Lucky no gnats. If they show up on stickies....I break out the bacteria.

Baby grow compared to DoubleA. Not jealous. Lol

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Hey it's not how big your operation is, it's how you grow it.

Dreminen169 said:

springtails are beneficial however too much of anything is no good

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I got springtails right now that have devastated my smaller plants. Eaten the roots right off them so I'm letting the plants dry right to the point of drooping badly to kill them off. Some species feed on the roots like fungus gnat larvae which I got rid of with one low dose of Gnatrol so I tried it on the springtails but didn't phase them a bit. Once each plant droops I'm watering from the bottom about 2/3 of the normal amount with some DE mixed into the top 2" of the pots. Do not want to lose these Cherry Noir that were the clones a buddy sent me and brought the springtails with them. Foliar spraying with a light mix of 3-part nutes to keep them alive for now. Soon as they have some healthy growth I'll get cuttings and start them in the spare bedroom away from all the rest.

Easily 100 springtails in each tsp of soil mix and that's just way too many.

Gnatrol wipes out FGs easy as hell.

OldMedUser said:

I got springtails right now that have devastated my smaller plants. Eaten the roots right off them so I'm letting the plants dry right to the point of drooping badly to kill them off. Some species feed on the roots like fungus gnat larvae which I got rid of with one low dose of Gnatrol so I tried it on the springtails but didn't phase them a bit. Once each plant droops I'm watering from the bottom about 2/3 of the normal amount with some DE mixed into the top 2" of the pots. Do not want to lose these Cherry Noir that were the clones a buddy sent me and brought the springtails with them. Foliar spraying with a light mix of 3-part nutes to keep them alive for now. Soon as they have some healthy growth I'll get cuttings and start them in the spare bedroom away from all the rest.

Easily 100 springtails in each tsp of soil mix and that's just way too many.

Gnatrol wipes out FGs easy as hell.

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Yea, that’s crazy. Your environment must be super accommodating towards them. Usually springtails go for fungi & decaying vegetation. Wonder if there’s another problem causing their population increase? You have the right idea with the dry backs though. I would also try fluctuating your temperatures as this also effects their population, & as a last resort pyrethrins or allethrin will kill them. I feel like their population should stabilize itself over time though.

Dreminen169 said:

Yea, that’s crazy. Your environment must be super accommodating towards them. Usually springtails go for fungi & decaying vegetation. Wonder if there’s another problem causing their population increase? You have the right idea with the dry backs though. I would also try fluctuating your temperatures as this also effects their population, & as a last resort pyrethrins or allethrin will kill them. I feel like their population should stabilize itself over time though.

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I did inadvertently create the right conditions for a population explosion. I had mixed up a new batch of my semi-organic Promix based media and added a heaping tsp of chelated iron to the water I used as I mixed it all up. Two days after repotting the leaves started turning all bronze so I grabbed a couple and looked into what was going on and concluded it was an iron overdose. Hard to fathom as I didn't use that much according to the directions on the label. Like less than a quarter but as it was a fresh batch with probably plenty of iron already it must have been enough to push them over the edge.

Anyway I started flushing them to get rid of the excess and for a couple of weeks they were kept pretty soggy which is just what those little buggers love. I run an airstone in my jug full of RO water so wasn't worried about a couple weeks of this causing overwatering issues but wasn't aware these fuckers were even there at the time. I still have about 50L of that mix sitting moist in a tub in the grow room and examined it carefully for any springtails and could not find a one so will still use it but will cut it 2 or 3 to 1 with fresh ProMix before putting plants in it. Either that or save it 'til the spring and add it to the mix I have in my outdoor pot patch area where it will be maybe 10% of the total. I added a bunch of zeolite to this batch too but I don't think it has iron. Doesn't say that on the bag but does contain sodium so should look up signs of sodium excess and see what that looks like in pot.

If drying them out doesn't get rid of them then I'll stoop to chemical warfare to nuke the bastards. Once I have cuttings rooted I plan to spray them with STS to get pollen to make fem seeds with those offspring and the mothers will be tossed so I won't be worried about smoking tainted buds.

Only one plant of the seven has drooped enough to water so far so I'm running downstairs every couple hours to check for the next one and save it with a bit of water poured into it's drip pan. Going to plant 3 seeds of the fem autos I want to make fem seeds with tonight but they will go into 3" pots of fresh promix watered with a bit of seaweed ferts to start them off.

Hey @TintEastwood ... you ever figure out how many drops you use per gallon? I went up to 13 drops per 50 gallons. Stuff is cheap enough, and should last me the rest of this run. Can you put too much in there? I used 110 gallons yesterday to feed about 39 plants. Sounds like alot for 39 plants, but I was trying to correct a ph crash...... well, not really a crash. It was an "adjustment".

DoubleAtotheRON said:

Hey @TintEastwood ... you ever figure out how many drops you use per gallon? I went up to 13 drops per 50 gallons. Stuff is cheap enough, and should last me the rest of this run. Can you put too much in there? I used 110 gallons yesterday to feed about 39 plants. Sounds like alot for 39 plants, but I was trying to correct a ph crash...... well, not really a crash. It was an "adjustment".

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Can’t use too much BTI, worse thing your gonna do is waste it, but like you said for the price who cares…

*****REPORT!***** Ok, after just one good soaking with the stuff @TintEastwood suggested, I captured a group of larvae in the run off. Under the microscope at 1200x's, I didn't see one single live one. I've always seen some wigglers after treating with mosquito bits in a net that soaks in my rez. This stuff has some serious knock down power! 12-13 drops per 50 gallons of water, and only one good soaking treatment per plant. Highly recommend! I took several samples, and they are all dead! Adult population continues to dwindle. I have not seen a flyer in a couple of days, and the traps are becoming pretty inactive.

DoubleAtotheRON said:

*****REPORT!***** Ok, after just one good soaking with the stuff @TintEastwood suggested, I captured a group of larvae in the run off. Under the microscope at 1200x's, I didn't see one single live one. I've always seen some wigglers after treating with mosquito bits in a net that soaks in my rez. This stuff has some serious knock down power! 12-13 drops per 50 gallons of water, and only one good soaking treatment per plant. Highly recommend! I took several samples, and they are all dead! Adult population continues to dwindle. I have not seen a flyer in a couple of days, and the traps are becoming pretty inactive.



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That's great!
In case you haven't thought about it don't forget to read up on resistance to insecticides if they aren't eradicated.