SmokesLikeBob
Well-Known Member
This whole LED versus HID argument has been going on since LED's were first implemented into growing. Whatever you use is up to you, but HID is better IMO...Bottom line, it has been proven, time after time.
STAY AWAY FROM LED's!!!!!
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Corso312
Well-Known Member
i used to feel the same way bob...i am not a led grower..but i will be in a year, the leds have caught up to hid in my opinion..i am seeing too many outstanding grows with led nowadays...if the hids and the leds were the same price then everyone would be using leds...the only thing delaying most growers from leds are the initial cost...a 10x10 room could be done with two 1k watters at a third of the price of three 600 watt leds
grizlbr
Active Member
Use what works for you. I do not see the need for big lights until we can grow in GA. T8s work for me starting tomatoes.
collective gardener
Well-Known Member
Absolutely not. If LEDs were half the price of HID I'd still use HID. Please show me these "outstanding grows" with LED. I have yet to see one commercial LED grow op that is on par with HID. Most of my closest friends are commercial growers. Most of us can afford to purchase whatever equipment will work the best...and most of us do just that. If LED's were up to the task, we'd all run them. I really wish they were better.
BTW, properly lighting a 10x10 room takes quite a bit more light than 2 - 1000 watt lights. 4 lights would even be too little for my liking. We use 2 - 1000 watt lights for every 4x8 tray.
SmokesLikeBob
Well-Known Member
LED's got it's advantages... but the cons out-weigh the pros....And the only bad thing I can think of for HID's is heat. I know someone will probably say, "How about your power bill?", but these lights will do more than pay for themselves. You can double, maybe even triple your initial investment, plus the upkeep costs on the first cycle. Then every cycle after that is virtually pure profit.
With LED's it'll take you maybe 2 cycles just to cover the cost of the light.
collective gardener
Well-Known Member
Bob, very perceptive view on HID. Power is just another operating expense. Proportionally, it's really not that much...certainly less than trimming costs. But, speaking of bottom lines, IF the LED could produce HID quality/quantity buds, they, too, would pay for themselves quite fast. The higher cost would be offset easily by lower power and bulb replacement costs. These people that keep saying that folks are not buying them because of high cost are way off course. People are not running out and buying them because they simply don't perform as well as HID. And, nobody wants to spend ANY money (let alone more money)for a light that can't do what HID can do.
Your point on heat, Bob, is certainly spot on. Heat is the bane of my existence all summer long. This weekend I'm installing another sub-panel to power the new A/C unit I ordered. This is all in prep to seal the grow and stafrt with the CO2 enrichment.
Corso312
Well-Known Member
it is not about the energy consumption vs yield, because clearly an average grower can get an elbow per 1k watt hps and that would pay for the light and the cost to run it and leave a nice profit... the problem is most people live in non med states and can not have a 1400 dollar bill without raising eyebrows
FootClan
Well-Known Member
the amount of UVB that you get from a MH is not hat much and if you use a hood with a glass its almost completetly filtered out......LED's are bad for your eyes and Plants :
Please don't come here and categorically state things like that without citing references. Where did you get that info?? First I've heard about that. BTW< HIDs are bad as well. MH produces MAD amounts of UVB, as does plasma MH, but a normal MH bulb has filters built in. Plasma has no such protection AFIK. They are used by growers who want to expose plants to UVB as a way to increase THC.
FootClan
Well-Known Member
i use a 1000w MH and it dosent burn anything in fact the plants love it.......The stocks are twice the size when i veg with a 1000w verse a 400w...... its not going to burn your plants if you use a bigger light
lamabile85
Member
I am starting my vegatative growth cycle with T5 Badboys (6 bulbs) total of 4. Then for blooming/flowering switching to ann HID 1000 watt system (4 total). Hopefully produces results
FootClan
Well-Known Member
+ Rep!!!! well put!!I love how I always have to back up my claims but no one else does. Then we got this dude who has not even used LEDs arguing. LED is junk, if you can't control heat you have improper ventilation. How's this? I have REAL WORLD experience with t5's, HID, and LED's. For the price of the led lights you could buy a small HID and all the fan's, ect you need.
So how does a so called 'pro' grower examine lighting?
Efficiency vs Cost
Led's are by far the wost, reduced yield and high cost.
T5's are the 'middle' ground reduced yeild, poor penetration, higher cost per watt than HID
Now the winner is HID. Why? A 400w HPS puts out more light with greater penetration than an 8 tube t5. If the bulb is exposed it puts off less heat as well. Want to know the kicker? It uses less wattage than the 8tube!
So what are t5's and LED's for?
Growing at home in a really small space (a closet can easily accommodate a 400w hps). They are also a marketing ploy, this stuff is VERY cheap to manufacture. You just pay the 'gimmick' tax.
You are more than welcome to spend thousands on LED's while skimping on other equally important factors in grow space design. Not me though
FootClan
Well-Known Member
dude you cant argue LEDs with LED growers you jus cant do it.....Its like debating religion with a religions person it dosent matter what you say religious person will always counter your debate with stuff like its "faith" you just have to have faith that all ..... just like you cant argue led with an LED user for some reason they are the most snobby stubern growers out here..... so trying to convience them of ANYTHING other then what they think is just a waste of typing .....No amount of common sense or logic will have any effect of them what so ever.......ive already learned this and now except it...Cant change it and they curtinly arent going to change there minds so why even debate it.... theres no debate when only one side is debating....
FootClan
Well-Known Member
thats not really true people keep saying thats the only reason is cost......BULLSHIT..... i can afford any light i want im not bound by cost and alot of my grower friends have even more money then me and they all CHOOSE not to get LEDs NOT becuase of cost but because we dont like them......lol so the whole cost argument is getting old and its always the first thing the led growers jump to when saying "its the main reason people dont use them" when in fact the MAIN reason is people dont like them........
FootClan
Well-Known Member
anyone who refers to someone punctuation and spelling in a debate is a peice of shit that cant back up there argument with logic so they have to defer to someones spelling ....thats weak sauce and weakminded.....If you cant beat him with logic and sense then you loose you dont get to cristize someones spelling as if that has anyting to do with his point.......
FootClan
Well-Known Member
+ rep....... cant argue with logic
DrFever
New Member
i say let LEd growers be LED growers there only really closet growers anyway 
) to worried about power bill to cheap to actually run exhaust power but rather PC fans hahahaha kinda think its halarious veg for like 8 weeks and flower for 14 weeks ) as most hid growers will be half done there second grow as you complete your first one )
) to worried about power bill to cheap to actually run exhaust power but rather PC fans hahahaha kinda think its halarious veg for like 8 weeks and flower for 14 weeks ) as most hid growers will be half done there second grow as you complete your first one )
Corbat420
Well-Known Member
wow you know nothing about maijuana and THC. i just have to cover that right now.
you NEVER want to eliminate the UV/B Lighting. you want 4 Watts of UV/B lighting per Square meter (this is what the sun provides....)
maybe you should do some Research on UV/B and THC......
the only reason LED's dont match HID lighting is the light penetration. the light penetration will NEVER match HID lighting.
but then, theres Plasma Lighting..... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Plasma-Grow-Light-Plasms-Light-Bulb-300-watts-/200527967618
LEP (Light Emiting Plasma) IS the future of lighting when the price comes down.
Plasma lights, get the same intensity and Lumen output from 288 Watts as a 600 HPS or a 1000 Metal Halide (Both of which have the same lumen intensity.....) there the only lighting so far that has been able to BEAT HID Lighting in every test.... lamp life, heat, safty, initial lumens, and wattage intake.....
DrFever
New Member
thanks footclan i may be lazy with punctuations but i think i get the point across i have seen threads where ppl are growing with LED
and all they talk about is how nice the picture looks lol but in reality how come the plant is taking its time growing is what i like to know ?????
FootClan
Well-Known Member
lol um seems you know nothing..... I didnt say ANYTHING about plants not needing UVB you dumb ass.....I said that MH dosent give off that much UVB then i went on to say that the very little UVB that comes out of a MH bulb will be further filterd by the glass in the air cooled hood..... So before you jump in talking stupid you should try RE- reading what i wrote ........ I know all about UVB rays and what it does for plants and how it can improve THC but not CBD..
THE POINT OF MY RESPONSE WAS TO IMFORM PEOPLE THAT YOU DONT GET ALOT OF UVB RAYS FROM A MH BULB AND IF YOU ARE USING A AIR COOLED HOOD WITH GLASS YOU GET ALMOST NO UVB RAYS......... I WASNT saying that plants dont need UVB rays......... Congrats you just earned dumbest post of the day!!