stick a fork in em..their done.

TheBrutalTruth said:

Of course if you're referring to the $100,000 and $200,000 figures, then perhaps you are a bigger fool than I gave you credit for. Perhaps I should repeat my location, which is in Dayton, right by the GM Morraine Assembly, well, what was the GM Morraine Assembly. 2,000+ workers since this disaster started earlier in 2008. Three rounds of lay offs, starting with 3rd shift, and working down to include... EVERYONE.

Of course, I supposed after taxes the real figures are only $80,000 and $160,000, but nonetheless, I did hear what I heard. Perhaps you should be quiet Med, seeing as how you are way the fuck in CALIFORNIA and thus are so far away from GM's Assembly plants as to not be able to speak about it.

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medicineman said:

Show me the billions the unions have...........................????? I never disputed the buyouts that the workers got, lets see, 100K and no work for the rest of their life, what a deal. Lets talk golden parachutes, eh.

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This includes a $24.1 billion contribution to a new Voluntary Employee Beneficiary Association (VEBA), which will establish an independent trust fund to pay retiree health benefits

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medicineman said:

What is a VEBA? A VEBA is an independent trust fund, similar in many respects to a pension trust. Money contributed to the VEBA can only be used to provide your health care benefits. It can never be used for any other purpose. Even if Chrysler were to someday file for bankruptcy or be taken over by another group of owners, the money in the VEBA would be secure.
Uhhhhh, where is the union's ownership of this money???

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TheBrutalTruth said:

Well it sure in the hell was collected by them, and I'm sure that they appointed the people that over see it....

Hopefully they didn't invest any of it with Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers or Mad & Off...

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medicineman said:

So then, you're admitting you were full of crap? Tying the union to those funds as ownership was a complete lie.

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TheBrutalTruth said:

No, not a complete lie, they demanded the money, and they got it. Though I can only imagine some union boss squeezing that lemon for its juice now, while laughing like a maniac on his way to the bank...

And it still doesn't prevent my argument from being valid. What's stopping the Unions from saying that in order to ensure the long term viability of this VEBA that they need to take $1 Billion or $2 Billion out to start a new auto-company that is ran on the principles of Socialism... unless they know that the principles that they have espoused can't run a company no more than they can run a nation.

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medicineman said:

Still full of crap, conjecture does not bode truth.

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TheBrutalTruth said:

You need to point that finger back at yourself.

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medicineman said:

Look TBT, I don't really do facts per-se, too boring. I'd rather let you do the "facts then comment on them. Just because something is factual doesn't make it right. It may be a fact that Bush-Cheney are the two biggest criminals on the planet, the most hated and rightly so, but it doesn't make them right. One could always go to factcheck.org and come away with the facts, but comment on them is special. I work on the common sense principle. One doesn't have to have 3 degrees and a 180 IQ to see the shitstorm we are in, My opinion is just different than yours, doesn't necessarily make me right or you right, just two sides of the coin.

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TheBrutalTruth said:

True that, but if one side is up the other is going to be down Med, and unlike the pansy girly-boys that play sports now, I play to win, not to get some pink ribbon tied to my arm while adults mumble about how everyone's a winner, and losing is okay.

I'm assuming its the same with you. Otherwise you'd have probably thrown up your arms in frustration and walked away a long time ago. But some how I don't see you walking away while there are still opponents left on the field.

Besides, at least pitting my wits against you there's something to sharpen them against. I'm afraid that half the people that support Obama were only doing it to oppose Bush, and the other half actually believed that Obama is going to bring "Change" instead of More of the Same.

Politicians are crooks, cons and professional hustlers, to believe that any one politician isn't is... foolish. Well, I'd say there's at least one that I can think of, but I'm not going to insult that doctor by calling him a politician.

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medicineman said:

I may have been hoodwinked by Obama, but at least give him some time to prove it. I've said here before, if he bullshitted his way in, I'd be the first to cry foul, at least give him a chance to try and institute change as he said he would. If he goes uncle tom, I'll holler at you.

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ViRedd said:

Need I point out the obvious, Med? Obama has already proven that he's just another lame politician. Take a look at the administration he's putting together. It looks like the Clintonistas are back in spades. Change, my ass.

Vi

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Johnnyorganic said:

I agree, too. One President at a time, please.

However, the Democrats have been firmly in control of Congress since 2006, thus Dubya has been a lame duck. The President is only one part of the equation and the POTUS does not make the law.

A sitting President has influence on legislation, but without Congressional support it means nothing.

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medicineman said:

Oh Johnny, the senate had enough repukes to overide any democratic legislation, like defunding the war, not that the dems had the balls to try, but the presence of that shadow over the senate disallowed any major changes. There will be no excuses when Obama takes office, agreed?

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