STRAINLY

I'm going to say slim chance that is 'genetic drift'. You have cultivars going on hundreds of years old that remain extremely uniform and in commercial production. Phenol difference brought on by environmental factors is the reason you see plants that can look vastly different from one grow to the next, one grower to the next. Did you expose your plants to excessive background radiation? Even vigor loss in old clones can be explained away by the accumulation of pathogens before genetic drift. Let alone a plant completely changing the way it looks in a year due to genetic mutation. .000001% mutated cells are not getting pink box off the hook. This is cloning and not sexual reproduction. For what it's worth, I still think both the GMO and Trop Cherry could be legitimate cuts. The GMO is a stretchy plant but also seems to dislike excessive N. The plant pictured above looks over-ferted which could cause a height stunting effect whereas the other strain that went verticle had no issue with feed stress.

I have grown gmo it stretches even in veg. SMF does anyway.

Applesauceisgood said:

I'm going to say slim chance that is 'genetic drift'. You have cultivars going on hundreds of years old that remain extremely uniform and in commercial production. Phenol difference brought on by environmental factors is the reason you see plants that can look vastly different from one grow to the next, one grower to the next. What's more likely? For what it's worth, I still think both the GMO and Trop Cherry could be legitimate cuts. The GMO is a stretchy plant but also seems to dislike excess N. The plant pictured above looks over-ferted which could cause a height stunting effect whereas the other strain that went verticle had no issue with feed stress.

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thenotsoesoteric said:

Yep, back in college biology we had a chapter on genetic drift caused by stress/trauma in mammals.

It can happen slow or fast depending on several variables. Its a roll of the dice as to how/what/when it will or won't happen. But my limited knowledge on the subject is equal to hearsay.

That hops latent virus on the other hand is just horrible all around and quite predictable once a plant gets it.

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Yeah, I've seen a couple of cuts in my garden get hit with hlvpd, and there's nothing to do except exterminate them quick and sanitize the place fast.

Technically these genetic mutations are different than genetic drift, because drift happens over generations, while genetic mutations occur within the one individual only, although it may seem like generations because of the way we keep mothers.

I guess my point is that some of these clone vendors may not be lying (I'm not saying they aren't tho). They may have the real cut, but it just changed over time based on both genetic mutations, and also environmental factors (which can possibly lead to mutations?). Many people think SFV OG and Tahoe OG are the same cut, and this hypothesis would support the differences between those two cuts.

Applesauceisgood said:

I'm going to say slim chance that is 'genetic drift'. You have cultivars going on hundreds of years old that remain extremely uniform and in commercial production. Phenol difference brought on by environmental factors is the reason you see plants that can look vastly different from one grow to the next, one grower to the next.

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I used to think the same thing, but modern science is changing that perspective. Here's another good article on the same phenomenon in humans, and they do mention environment vs genetics: https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/general-science/identical-twins-are-not-identical

colocowboy said:

I have grown gmo it stretches even in veg. SMF does anyway.

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I've grown GMO too and unless I am growing something tropical it's always the tallest plant in all phases. However, I could 100% fuck it up and stunt its verticle growth the first few weeks of flower if I tried.

Applesauceisgood said:

I've grown GMO too and unless I am growing something tropical it's always the tallest plant in all phases. However, I could 100% fuck it up and stunt its verticle growth the first few weeks of flower if I tried.

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I would argue it would still be lanky because of its grow cycle. Also wrong bud structure.

PJ Diaz said:

I used to think the same thing, but modern science is changing that perspective. Here's another good article on the same phenomenon in humans, and they do mention environment vs genetics: https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/general-science/identical-twins-are-not-identical

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I'm not buying it. You're talking human twins who don't have identical DNA to begin with and we're talking a cloned plant, with the assumption 'genetic drift' occurred in a year which altered the way the plant looks and the terpenes it produces. How often do people grow 5 legs spontaneously because of mutated cells? Can you find any research paper observing cannabis (or any plant) doing this?

colocowboy said:

I would argue it would still be lanky because of its grow cycle. Also wrong bud structure.

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Fair enough - the plant looks like GMO in terms of long internodal spacing and other features but apparently, it's squat. It could be an S1, a seed run of original parents, or environmental in my opinion. I am tempted to buy his GMO, GG4 and a few other cuts and document the grow. What other cuts were people skeptical of from their shop? GMO, GG4, Trop Cherry ?

PJ Diaz said:

Yeah, I've seen a couple of cuts in my garden get hit with hlvpd, and there's nothing to do except exterminate them quick and sanitize the place fast.

Technically these genetic mutations are different than genetic drift, because drift happens over generations, while genetic mutations occur within the one individual only, although it may seem like generations because of the way we keep mothers.

I guess my point is that some of these clone vendors may not be lying (I'm not saying they aren't tho). They may have the real cut, but it just changed over time based on both genetic mutations, and also environmental factors (which can possibly lead to mutations?). Many people think SFV OG and Tahoe OG are the same cut, and this hypothesis would support the differences between those two cuts.

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My bad I didn't mean to put drift, totally different as you mentioned. I did mean mutations.

The AJ cut of sour diesel is thought to be a drift as well and I see your point.

Applesauceisgood said:

I'm not buying it. You're talking human twins who don't have identical DNA to begin with and we're talking a cloned plant, with the assumption 'genetic drift' occurred in a year which altered the way the plant looks and the terpenes it produces. How often do people grow 5 legs spontaneously because of mutated cells? Can you find any research paper observing cannabis (or any plant) doing this?

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It's not genetic drift. As I mentioned, genetic drift happens over generations. With a clone (or twins), it's all in the same individual. No I don't have any studies like this for cannabis, but the science is still young on this.

Applesauceisgood said:

I'm not buying it. You're talking human twins who don't have identical DNA to begin with and we're talking a cloned plant, with the assumption 'genetic drift' occurred in a year which altered the way the plant looks and the terpenes it produces. How often do people grow 5 legs spontaneously because of mutated cells? Can you find any research paper observing cannabis (or any plant) doing this?

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Identical twins absolutely do have identical dna to begin with. They start as a fertilized egg, which then splits into two genetically identical organisms. Ever wonder why you can tell identical twins apart? Genetic mutations, and the individual's environment/experiences.

PJ Diaz said:

Identical twins absolutely do have identical dna to begin with. They start as a fertilized egg, which then splits into two genetically identical organisms. Ever wonder why you can tell identical twins apart? Genetic mutations, and the individual's environment/experiences.

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I didn't mean "to begin with" in the way you're interpreting it. "Monozygotic twins do not have 100% identical DNA". Read the study related to your article when they hypothesize when the differences can occur, including one-half of the zygote snagging clumps of cells favoring one parent. I won't be convinced genetic drift/genetic mutation is altering cannabis clones in major ways, especially from one grow to the next. It doesn't make sense and it's at the bottom of the list of why a cloned plant presents differently for different growers, in my opinion. I do not believe your cut changed terp profiles from your 3rd to 4th grow because of a genetic mutation occurring. It's like you observing aliens and me refusing to believe you. My opinion means nothing.

Applesauceisgood said:

I didn't mean "to begin with" in the way you're interpreting it. "Monozygotic twins do not have 100% identical DNA". Read the study related to your article when they hypothesize when the differences can occur, including one-half of the zygote snagging clumps of cells favoring one parent. I won't be convinced genetic drift/genetic mutation is altering cannabis clones in major ways, especially from one grow to the next. It doesn't make sense and it's at the bottom of the list of why a cloned plant presents differently for different growers, in my opinion. I do not believe your cut changed terp profiles from your 3rd to 4th grow because of a genetic mutation occurring. It's like you observing aliens and me refusing to believe you. My opinion means nothing.

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Nothing is yet proven here, and I'm open to opinions. That said, how would you explain the change in the "super lemony" cut I had which seemingly changed it's attributes for no apparent reason, and with virtually no other noticeable changes?

To me based on what some of these studies I've posted suggested, it's completely plausible that the likely cause is a genetic mutation, specifically changing the amount of the terpene limonene which the flower produces, thereby changing a "lemoney" strain to "perfumey".

I've mostly always grown from seed or kept a cut for just 2 or 3 runs. We've only ever kept two cuts for any considerable length of time, both around 7-8 years. One was a White S1 from OGRaskal and the other a homemade fem cross of Blue Cheese X Critical Kush. The White cut was potent as all hell and usually really hashy and pretty flavorless with a heavy narcotic stone, but every few grows it would throw some nice citrus/orange peel terps (maybe orange creamsicle? but more bitter) and have a more balanced high while otherwise looking pretty much the same. In two different gardens, we experienced the same thing without ever being able to ID what caused it. But the terpy ones were always the crowd favorite. The BCxCK cut always seemed to alternate every other grow between having the Blue Cheese terps out front and dominant with just a hint of OG and being more OG dominant with just a hint of Blueberry and very light Cheese funk only tasted on the exhale. I don't know what caused it, but they were for sure always the same clone because only one selection from each was kept. We did S1 the BCxCC cut once on a really nice Blue Cheese-dominant run and the few seeds of that that have been popped have all had Blueberry Cheese as the predominant flavors just like the run it was seeded on. I don't know if that adds anything to this discussion or not but thought it might be worth noting.

Hawg Wild said:

I've mostly always grown from seed or kept a cut for just 2 or 3 runs. We've only ever kept two cuts for any considerable length of time, both around 7-8 years. One was a White S1 from OGRaskal and the other a homemade fem cross of Blue Cheese X Critical Kush. The White cut was potent as all hell and usually really hashy and pretty flavorless with a heavy narcotic stone, but every few grows it would throw some nice citrus/orange peel terps and have a more balanced high while otherwise looking pretty much the same. In two different gardens, we experienced the same thing without ever being able to ID what caused it. But the terpy ones were always the crowd favorite. The BCxCK cut always seemed to alternate every other grow between having the Blue Cheese terps out front and dominant with just a hint of OG and being more OG dominant with just a hint of Blueberry and very light Cheese funk only tasted on the exhale. I don't know what caused it, but they were for sure always the same clone because only one selection from each was kept. We did S1 the BCxCC cut once on a really nice Blue Cheese-dominant run and the few seeds of that that have been popped have all had Blueberry Cheese as the predominant flavors just like the run it was seeded on. I don't know if that adds anything to this discussion or not but thought it might be worth noting.

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Not sure if it adds anything to that conversation either but i definately appreciate you sharing it!! I like having as many different peoples experiences on certain situations locked away in my vaukt upsatirs as i can ,so i can wiegh them agaisnt each other wnhen it comes time that a question arises about the subject they pertain too , and i can be a little more imformed . I think thats why i can read spend so many hours on this site just reading about nothimg in particular.And i hate reading lol

Green Puddin said:

Not sure if it adds anything to that conversation either but i definately appreciate you sharing it!! I like having as many different peoples experiences on certain situations locked away in my vaukt upsatirs as i can ,so i can wiegh them agaisnt each other wnhen it comes time that a question arises about the subject they pertain too , and i can be a little more imformed . I think thats why i can read spend so many hours on this site just reading about nothimg in particular.And i hate reading lol

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Yeah I don't know. I've been growing a long time and have made a few random pollen chucks over the years and read a lot of books and articles that turned out to be about 75% useless bro science and 25% useful knowledge, but I'm no expert when it comes to the real scientific aspects of it. Everything I have done with the plants has just been through trial and error and for personal taste.

I'm not sure waiting until receiving the seeds before leaving a review was a good strategy for getting feedback. Maybe the seller is busy and will do it tomorrow, but maybe he won't, or worse, was insulted that I didn't leave a review the day he sent me a tracking number.

Then there's this guy. I've found a number of dead profiles like this and I wonder why. Nice username.

Just dropping in to tell my experience. Aroma therapeutic is garbage. Dude sent me a rooted clone in rockwool with the entire rootball mega wrapped in plastic wrap. I could smell the rot before i took the plastic off. I tried to re cut it but it was such a thin woody cut it had no chance by the time i mad the decision. I also thought they usually pack a mini led light. Mine had no light. So my clone had no light and the roots had no oxygen for 2 days. He also said he was sending me 4 fresh snips and only sent me 3. Im done with strainly. I'm just going to stick to cracking seeds

Delta9Fit said:

Just dropping in to tell my experience. Aroma therapeutic is garbage. Dude sent me a rooted clone in rockwool with the entire rootball mega wrapped in plastic wrap. I could smell the rot before i took the plastic off. I tried to re cut it but it was such a thin woody cut it had no chance by the time i mad the decision. I also thought they usually pack a mini led light. Mine had no light. So my clone had no light and the roots had no oxygen for 2 days. He also said he was sending me 4 fresh snips and only sent me 3. Im done with strainly. I'm just going to stick to cracking seeds

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A clone shipper unit with the LED light costs $14. I haven't seen any Strainly sellers using them yet. I use them, they're great. You just have to make sure the root cube isn't too wet, or the weight can cause them to break off.